I spoted a funny loophole in unit coherency rules!!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**LordCommisarN**

HAHA! i figured a way to split squads!!
1)Pick the squad
2)move the units so that 50% are in unit cohereency with each other
3)laugh as opponeent tries to dissallow this!!

**Sigmatron**

How is that legal when pg 12 details Unit coherency?

**LordCommisarN**

I think it works...GW aberdeen allowed it.although they are quite gung ho...

**Fanchy**

Oh really? a GW store allowed this?

Illegal, thanks.

Less of the Aquillas

**time wizard**

Yes, illegal.
Each model has to be in coherency.
Where does 50% come in?

**MasticatorDeelux**

I believe that with the latest FAQ, only the unit that is behind the other gets a cover save. So you could take a unit of gretchen and throw them in a squad of boyz on the field to give them a cheap, mobile save.

Not sure where splitting squads up comes in to play, though.

**don_mondo**

Wow, another GW retail store screwing up the rules. Say it ain't so!! Sorry, entire unit must be in coherency.

**insaniak**

LordCommisarN wrote: I think it works...GW aberdeen allowed it.although they are quite gung ho...

Would you mind explaining just why you think it works? As in the actual rules justification for it, rather than 'A GW store allowed it'...

**puma713**

This isn't locked yet?

**time wizard**

Wait for it!

**VoxDei**

Are you sure you just didn't see some marines combat squad? Marines may split their squad when they deploy.

**kmdl1066**

LordCommisarN wrote: HAHA! i figured a way to split squads!!
1)Pick the squad
2)move the units so that 50% are in unit cohereency with each other
3)laugh as opponeent tries to dissallow this!!

pg. 12 '..the models in it must form an imaginary chain where the distance between one model and the next is no more than 2".'

Soooooooooooo .... how exactly are you getting around this?

**Krellnus**

kmdl1066 wrote:
LordCommisarN wrote: HAHA! i figured a way to split squads!!
1)Pick the squad
2)move the units so that 50% are in unit cohereency with each other
3)laugh as opponeent tries to dissallow this!!

pg. 12 '..the models in it must form an imaginary chain where the distance between one model and the next is no more than 2".'

Soooooooooooo .... how exactly are you getting around this?

I think what he is saying is this, you get half the squad (or whatever number) and deploy them in coherency with each other and than get the other half in coherency with each other but deploy them somewhere else (i.e. like combat squads). Which I am pretty sure is illegal because the entire squad has to be deployed so that they are all in coherency with each other in the one spote i.e. all models in a unit are linked by incriments no more than 2" between each model (4" for vehicle squadrons) i.e. how people normally play it.

**Hindenburg**

You figured out a way to split squads that is to simply split them up into two groups and then laugh at your opponent? A stroke of genius!

**solkan**

"Move the units so that 50% are in unit coherency with each other", just like that third example of unit coherency, the example of what out of coherency looks like.

Can't people at least look at the pictures in the rulebook?

**warpcrafter**

Stop it already. The 40K rules are screwy enough without that sort of weasely nonsense. Some people...

**RatBot**

I'm pretty sure the OP saw Space Marines using the Combat Squad rule.

So the OP understands:

Space Marines have a special rule that allows ten man squads to separate into two five man squads upon deployment or immediately after emerging from a drop pod. Only Space Marines can do this, and the squad in question is now considered two squads.

**DarthSpader**

not even worth finding the facepalm pic.

<insert facepalm image here>

oy.

OP please READ the rules k?

**insaniak**

It would be helpful at this point if people laid off the snide remarks. We've established that it's not actually legal... there's really nothing further to add here unless the OP returns with some sort of explanation of just what he's talking about.

**Fayric**

Just trying to understand the line of thought here, no snide remark.
How about: if 50% is out of coherency each half could claim to be the unit to wich the other half is out of coherency with, thus establishing a status quo not being able to force any of the halfs to move in to coherency with the other.
I know this is not how the coherency rules work, but its the first thing I thought of when I read the OP.

**Cheex**

Well...nothing about deployment says the unit has to be in coherency. Coherency rules only say that they have to be in coherency at the end of their move.

Of course, it'd be completely and utterly pointless, as the unit would have to move as fast as it can to get back into coherency.

**MIKEtheMERCILESS**

So then the unit would be out of coherency as soon as the movement turn hits?

**time wizard**

MIKEtheMERCILESS wrote:So then the unit would be out of coherency as soon as the movement turn hits?

Yes and in their Movement phase they would have to move to restore coherency.
If they failed to do so, then i their Shooting phase, they would have to run to restore coherency preventing them from shooting or assaulting that turn, unless they have other rules.

**Lordhat**

- Removed by insaniak -

**Spellbound**

I was actually wondering what happens if you manage to have casualties removed in such a way [wound allocation on special weapons, for example] that your squad is out of coherency, then falls back.

Does each model go straight back, so you're never in coherency unless going around impassible terrain puts you back in, and fall back forever?

Or do you fall back and condense to get back in coherency? I'm sure the rulebook addresses this but I'm out of the country at the moment.

**VoxDei**

Pretty much. They fall back in the shortest distance possible to your own edge. If they are out of coherency and it's a straight shot to the edge then they cannot regroup. If you are able to get a unit inbetween and make the shortest distance end up putting them back into coherency then you can regroup.

**terranarc**

Exalted.

**warpcrafter**

Folks, I think we chased him off. That's the end of this thread, methinks.

**DeathReaper**

Spellbound wrote:I was actually wondering what happens if you manage to have casualties removed in such a way [wound allocation on special weapons, for example] that your squad is out of coherency, then falls back.

Does each model go straight back, so you're never in coherency unless going around impassible terrain puts you back in, and fall back forever?

Or do you fall back and condense to get back in coherency? I'm sure the rulebook addresses this but I'm out of the country at the moment.

you fall back straight, but you can run to restore coherency. Since P 46 says units can choose to run, but if they do so, it must be towards their own table edge.

So as long as you run towards their own table edge (Note it does not mention directly) you can get back into coherency.

**gpfunk**

A unit out of coherency must do everything in its power to restore coherency. That means if you remove casualties in a way that splits your squad then it has to move, then run if necessary, to restore unit coherency. So your squad is "separated" for the current turn but must try to get back together the following turn, which can make you move in a way you did not intend and cost you a shooting phase for the unit.

So you'd laugh at me the turn you thought you "split" your squad, and i'd laugh at you the following turn when you have to waste it running them back together.