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Someone posted a link to an IG strategy that used Leman Russ Exterminators. Now, up until then, I had been lead to believe they weren't worth the cost, because at base cost you could get two hydras for the same cost, each hydra having the exact same gun profile as the exterminator (plus the ability to negate jetbikes/skimmers coversave for moving flat out).

The argument was that the Leman russ has AV14 on the front, and you keep it at range, limiting the guns the opponent has to stop it. But the thing I'm wondering is the achilles heel of tanks with weak rear armor-assaults. The depressing realization has set in for me that as cool as the Leman Russes are, the fact that the rear armor is AV10/11 means anything that assaults it with a powerfist/antitank grenades is probably going to kill it. And since tankbusting assaulters have lots of clever ways of jumping tanks, aside from my friends who will stubbornly try to shoot the thing to pieces, a smart opponent is going to dart in with an inexpensive unit and assault the Leman Russ.

In this case, at the very least you get twice as many hydras, which means redundancy, and much of what the dakka boards have taught me is that the Imperial Guard's strength is that forever gun you silence, a hundred more will answer back

Exterminators are ok, but their problem is that they do something which the normal LRBT does already. Multi-task.


Autocannons are good against infantry, light, and medium vehicles. but a normal LR's Battlecannon is better against infantry and has a greater Anti-tank potential.

the Hydras have poorer armor, but more shots and negate the saves like you said.

the poorer armor is a moot point because you should already have significant AV12 saturation so that they arn't an obvious target.


Get another Battlecannon LRBT. its more intimidating and has greater damage potential.

You answered your own question rather well - Hydras are better and cheaper, while AV14 is not that great when 5th ed. assault rules hit the back armor. Think about it - a marine with a PF will rip the mighty LR to shreds because of the rule, never mind monstrous creatures rolling 2 dice. Yes, redundancy and sheer volume of firepower is how IG wins in 5th ed.

Hydras are better UNLESS you have a local meta or a preferred army type that has trouble making them survive.

If you run few vehicles, or face lots of S7-9 shooting, an Exterminator will survive where a pair of Hydras will be wiped off the board in one round.

But in that case, you are likely better off with basic Russ hulls and autocannon infantry.

The Hydra is better until the inherent fragility of the Chimera hull comes into play. Then it's a harder choice.

Jerjare wrote:The argument was that the Leman russ has AV14 on the front, and you keep it at range, limiting the guns the opponent has to stop it. But the thing I'm wondering is the achilles heel of tanks with weak rear armor-assaults. The depressing realization has set in for me that as cool as the Leman Russes are, the fact that the rear armor is AV10/11 means anything that assaults it with a powerfist/antitank grenades is probably going to kill it.

Yes, the fact that the enemy practically HAS TO assault your tank, which can get guns with excellent range (72" on a BC yeah?) is definitely NOT something to use to your advantage, especially when your codex has all kinds of cheap tarpits to throw at the enemy...

The depressing realization has set in for me that as cool as the Leman Russes are, the fact that the rear armor is AV10/11 means anything that assaults it with a powerfist/antitank grenades is probably going to kill it.

The un-depressing realization should be that for them to get there, they have to wade through how many guardsmen? how many special weapons? how many chimera's etc before getting to that thrice accursed leman russ? As cool as a russ is, it isn't an ultimate platform of unstoppable death. NOTHING in 40k is! you can bet, though, if a Leman russ is equipped with the right tools so the enemy cannot ignore it, where the enemy anti-tank assaulters are going to be going! Now, the question is- Can you use this to your advantage, in any way shape or form?

The LR Exterminator is a great platform for spamming S7 without having to camp your vehicle. It can remain mobile and still lay down punishing amounts of fire. I run one with PC sponsons and it is great against everything, save the highest AV vehicles in the game. It can deal with infantry & heavy infantry, transports and MC's like a champ and is damn durable. In fact, my tank is in a squadron with two Executioners with PC's. I get 12 PC templates and 4 AC shots. Plus 6 HB shots and and LC shot for giggles. 16 S7 shots will pretty much wilt whatever you're shooting at.

Hydras are great, but they must be in groups of at least two before their effectiveness really accelerates. That's two $80 kits from FW, or a lot of conversion work on a 75 point tank. Kinda frustrating. I have one and am waiting on another. But still like the Exterminator too. Whatever floats your boat. If you plan on running AV 12 spam, by all means load up on Hydras. But don't sleep on the Executioner because the internet tells you to.

Exterminator + Pask = funtimes. I've said this a lot before, but for 200pts base it is a great unit. It is generally low profile when you've got vendettas and other more nasty tanks on the table, so it lives a bit longer than putting pask in any other tank. I prefer it over putting pask in the basic russ mainly b/c you now have 4 TL str 8 AC shots at BS 4 rather than a larger Str 9 blast. That's 4 chances against 1. I prefer them odds any day. Ok so it's not str9, but you basically have a tank that effectively shoots 4 krak missiles at any light transport or MC in the game and most of those shots will hit. Adding plasma cannons makes it a generally well rounded tank in terms of being able to handle MEQs and Light transports. I've always had pretty good luck with the thing and it adds a little character to the usually boring current meta of vanilla russes, demos, and excutioner.

Stormrider wrote:
Hydras are great, but they must be in groups of at least two before their effectiveness really accelerates. That's two $80 kits from FW, or a lot of conversion work on a 75 point tank. Kinda frustrating. I have one and am waiting on another.

I built three more cheaply by using the quad from the Aegis defense on 2 chimeras and an old LR sponsonless hull. Just pop the quad turret onto where the chimera turret goes. It looks great and it is cheaper than FW. Virtually no conversion work necessary either and all is standard plastic rather than resin.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Stormrider wrote:
Hydras are great, but they must be in groups of at least two before their effectiveness really accelerates. That's two $80 kits from FW, or a lot of conversion work on a 75 point tank. Kinda frustrating. I have one and am waiting on another.

I built three more cheaply by using the quad from the Aegis defense on 2 chimeras and an old LR sponsonless hull. Just pop the quad turret onto where the chimera turret goes. It looks great and it is cheaper than FW. Virtually no conversion work necessary either and all is standard plastic rather than resin.

I'll second this. i made mine from purchasing the Aegis kits, kit bashing and super cheap bits deals on Feebay. you can go crazy and spend lots of money, or you can do it on a budget of sorts.

Hydras can play the range game even better than the Exterminator and you're putting out more shots.

Negating the flat-out cover save for Bikes and Skimmers is HUGE. 3 Hydras, statistically speaking, will fire 12 Autocannon shots and hit with 9 of them. At least 1 should pen and at least 1 should glance against an AV12 Skimmer or Flier. Think "that horrible thing that absolutely needs to die", ie: Stormraven with a bunch of nasty nonsense inside. Your opponent will probably go Flat Out with this thing on T1 to get it close, meaning you have 1 turn to shoot it down before it disgorges its awful cargo right next to your army. Do you really want him getting a 4+ coversave?

As for survivability, I can say that in all of the games I've run with Hydras, maybe in one or two games I've lost more than 1/3. They just aren't that high up on the list for priorities when you've got Vendettas, Manticores, Russes, and/or Psyker Battle Squads.

alarmingrick wrote:

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Stormrider wrote:
Hydras are great, but they must be in groups of at least two before their effectiveness really accelerates. That's two $80 kits from FW, or a lot of conversion work on a 75 point tank. Kinda frustrating. I have one and am waiting on another.

I built three more cheaply by using the quad from the Aegis defense on 2 chimeras and an old LR sponsonless hull. Just pop the quad turret onto where the chimera turret goes. It looks great and it is cheaper than FW. Virtually no conversion work necessary either and all is standard plastic rather than resin.

I'll second this. i made mine from purchasing the Aegis kits, kit bashing and super cheap bits deals on Feebay. you can go crazy and spend lots of money, or you can do it on a budget of sorts.

I was thinking about this too, I have an Aegis kit as well. Something to consider no doubt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Hydras can play the range game even better than the Exterminator and you're putting out more shots.

Negating the flat-out cover save for Bikes and Skimmers is HUGE. 3 Hydras, statistically speaking, will fire 12 Autocannon shots and hit with 9 of them. At least 1 should pen and at least 1 should glance against an AV12 Skimmer or Flier. Think "that horrible thing that absolutely needs to die", ie: Stormraven with a bunch of nasty nonsense inside. Your opponent will probably go Flat Out with this thing on T1 to get it close, meaning you have 1 turn to shoot it down before it disgorges its awful cargo right next to your army. Do you really want him getting a 4+ coversave?

As for survivability, I can say that in all of the games I've run with Hydras, maybe in one or two games I've lost more than 1/3. They just aren't that high up on the list for priorities when you've got Vendettas, Manticores, Russes, and/or Psyker Battle Squads.

This is an excellent post as well, I like Hydras, I think they're incredibly cheap (points wise, not $$) for what they do. I will be running 2 @ 'Ard Boyz, along with my Exterminator/Executioner x 2 LR Squadron and 2 Vendettas.

I suppose the overlap cant hurt. I imagine that setup would work well vs eldar/dark eldar who both have lots of fast stuff.

I like the Exterminator better than the Hydra for a few reasons. With an army riff with bleeding Kill Points, AV14 hulls and Weapon teams both provide some ruggedness (and bubblewrap). The PC sponson Exterminator is my favorite all-rounder tank.