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Ok, so I'm planning some Beastmen. Right now, I just want to have some fun, but I would like to evolve what into something a bit sharper.

I've read a lot that tells me the way to go is to spam Great Bray Shamen/Bray Shamen, with Shard of Heardstone , Jagged Dagger, Hagtree Fetish etc to try and develop a lot of Power Dice. Is there is prefered number of Shamen at certain points levels, or is it just "more is better"?? Is there a prefered way of equipping and positioning each Shaman? Do I just fill the rest of the list with Gor/Ungor?bestigor, or are there preffered support units?

I have also read mentions of a "minotaur bus". Is this just, essesntially, a massive Death Star of Minotaurs, or is tere more to it??

In my 2500 list i run a level four (death) three level twos (shadow x2 and beasts), they all have additional hand weapons, level 4 has talisman of preservation, then shard of the herdstone, dispel scroll and anything else arcane you want among the level 2's, i dont run any minos but i also pack a beastlord for the LD 9

Yeah its a mino death star, 6 minos (atleast) gorebull bsb and doombull

Are shamen, essentially, seen as the way forward for Beastmen then?

There was a podcast done by a tournament winning beastmen player who runs them similar to the way i do with big blocks of gors and ungors about 24 bestigor then chariots...i choose to run cygors and harpies instead of a fourth block of troops...all about preference dude

Herdstone helps with shaman spam. Lets you dominate your magic phase. You get 1 power dice for each wizard within 6 inches of the herdstone, then you get to roll to channel. So if you have 3-4 shamans near the stone and 1 greater shaman away in your horde of gor or beastigor and you roll on average 7 dice that's 10-11 plus channel means you are likely at max of 12. Then you spam beast buffing spells and miasma debuffs and other spells and suddenly that gor herd is boosted with beast banner to 40 WS4 S5 Attacks with hatred thanks to BSB rerolls and T5 and you are hitting a unit that now has a WS of 1-2 thinks to debuffs and/or -D3 Strength/Toughness.

Beastmen can be competitive if you run it right but there is a lot less room for error, had a close run game with my beasts agianst empire where a cannon destroyed my herdstone, luckily it was too late in the day to do anything but if hed thought of it earlier it could have been different

buh? how does that even happen?

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Beastmen can be competitive if you run it right but there is a lot less room for error, had a close run game with my beasts agianst empire where a cannon destroyed my herdstone, luckily it was too late in the day to do anything but if hed thought of it earlier it could have been different

Is that possible? It's not a building, wall or fence? It would be like trying to destroy a forest.

Technically buildings are invincible to cannons also! But yes, only *obstacles* can be destroyed, which is a very narrow definition

I did not know that I know spells like Crack's Call can take them down. So is there anything that can take down a herdstone? I am guessing it is categorized as a Mystical Monument.

Cracks Call can not do anything to a herdstone, which is not a building. Similarly, Crack's Call can not destroy Wyrding Wells, Idols of Gork (and even Mork), etc. Buildings only.

Cannons can only destroy obstacles: Fences, Walls, Ghost Fences, Blazing Barricades and... the other one. Wall of "we here at GW want our terrain to hate your evil faction army".

Blessed Bulwark, that's it.

It says that the herdstone becomes a piece of terrain and i saw the picture of cannon hitting obstacles and blowing them to hell so agreed when i was told it could be destroyed that way

Huge oversight #34 in 8th edition.. Buildings are immune to everything except skaven and the super awesome lizardmen special character that everyone always uses

kroak or mazdamundi?

Kirasu wrote:Huge oversight #34 in 8th edition.. Buildings are immune to everything except skaven and the super awesome lizardmen special character that everyone always uses

As a small correction, it's only one spell in the skaven book, not any of their weapons or anything.

Also I'm not sure I'd call lack of "weapons versus terrain features" rules a huge oversight. Considering the amount of magic and fantastical weapons that can see the battlefield, having to figure out what weapons can hurt/destroy/impact which terrain features adds an unnecessary complication.

I guess you haven't played against units in buildings that are impossible to kill. Its a stupid rule that they are immune to virtually everything

Also, Its 2 spells as the screaming bell can knock down buildings

Kirasu wrote:I guess you haven't played against units in buildings that are impossible to kill. Its a stupid rule that they are immune to virtually everything

Also, Its 2 spells as the screaming bell can knock down buildings

You guess wrong then. There are a variety of (often times difficult) ways to get someone out of a building. Barring the Watchtower scenario (which I think we all agree has issues) often times you can ignore the unit in a building. Flaming attacks / spells reroll to wound, so there's that. MI are decent at taking a building as they'll tend to have more attacks than their counterpart unit.

Either way, destroying terrain features should have been rare, if even used for cannons and skaven/lizards. Otherwise you start to get into a plethora of questions of "well why can't x destroy y terrain piece"? I mean, my skaven have flame throwers, should I be able to burn down forests?


I do stand corrected on the Bell though. Had forgotten about that.

You stand miss-corrected. It isn't 2 spells, it's 1 spell, and the bell. The bell isn't a spell.
The only problem with building rules is the clown car syndrome. No matter what the size of the building, everyone can fit, but only 10 guys can fight. That lets you do stupid things like bunker wizards in buildings with 60+ models.


Back on Topic now,
Anyone use the Skull of Rarkos on their Great Shaman with shaman spam?
+1 to cast and +1 power die sounds good to me.


-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Back on Topic now,
Anyone use the Skull of Rarkos on their Great Shaman with shaman spam?
+1 to cast and +1 power die sounds good to me.

-Matt

Problem is it's 60 points so only a Greater Bray Shaman can carry it. The the GBS is generally away from the herdstone in a unit with the Beast Banner getting off the shorter range spells and wracking up some kills sometimes with the Jagged Dagger wracking up more power dice.

So, Shamen are the way forward, right?? What would a Shamen list look like at, say, 1500?? How wopuld this evolve to 2500? Can we still include a Mino Bus (I quite like that idea...although Minos, it seems, are a bit poor)

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:So, Shamen are the way forward, right?? What would a Shamen list look like at, say, 1500?? How wopuld this evolve to 2500? Can we still include a Mino Bus (I quite like that idea...although Minos, it seems, are a bit poor)

The problem with minotaur are that they don't hold up to supporting attacks.
Dropping your opponents weapon skill (shadow signature), and upping their toughness (beast signature), both seem to solve that problem.
Since both shadow and beast only target a single unit, that tactic will work better when you focus on fewer units.
If you can only buff one unit, you need to get as much as you can out of that one unit.

-Matt

1500 Shaman List
Great Bray Shaman
Level 4
Talisman of Protection 280

Heroes
Wargor
BSB
Gnarled Hide
Heavy Armour
Great wEapon 122

Bray Shaman
Shard of the Herdstone 125

Bray Shaman
Dispel Scroll 100

Core
40 Gors
Add hand weapon
Musician
Stabdard 365

33 Ungor
Standard Bearer
Musician 174

Special
24 Bestigor
FC
Standard of Discipline 333

If ive added it up right it comes to 1499, list probably wont work aswell in this size due to lack of flank protectors in the form of tuskgor chariots, harpies, ungor raiders etc. Beast banner gets thrown in at higher point levels. Baby bray-shamen sit back in ungor bunker near herdstone and buff debuff acordingly, wargor and Great B-S go with big units of gor and bestigor

So, am I to infer that Shamen Spam works only at 2000 and above, when there's room for Harpies , Chariots etc??

Well you generally have a Greater Bray Shaman in a main fighting force being Gor or Beatigor to provide lower range spell support be it beasts, shadow or death and maybe get some combat kills and if they have the jagged dagger more power dice. So there is 1 caster but he is not going to be near the herd stone. For heroes you need a BSB, with primal fury it's a must have typical build is Wargor -BSB -Heavy Armor -Shield -Gnarled Hide -The Beast Banner 206 pts. At 1,850 probably the more common price prior to 2k or 1,750 your cap for points for heroes are 462.5 at 1,850 take out the BSB and you got 256.5 minus the herd stone so you have 206 so you are limited to 2 bray shaman since they are 75 a pop, maybe a level 2 for 110 plus any magic items for them. You could drop the Beast Banner and squeeze in a 3rd, and it maybe worth it you are giving up +1S on probably a horde of gor but you'll get the same effect with Wysaans plus +1T that can be put on any unit so it could be worth it.