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Ok the title is a bit misleading

I am starting a guard army renegade if I may add

And I already have a Ccs and enough guardsmen to make two platoons

I was leaning towards a leman Russ line followed by sentinels then ether bailisks or just more guardsmen

I understand they're are two ways to play guard and one being blob and other being mech vets

I'm leaning to blobs but am open to different options

So please dakka pimp my list

Well, you haven't really given us a list to pimp, sooo...

If you could give us a list so far, or even just tell us how you're kitting out your army, that would help.

I can offer these basic tips though:
- if you're blobbing up your platoon squads, power weapons on the sgts is essential. Also add at least 1 commissar to each blob. Flamers are fun too
- Can't go wrong with the leman russ, though i'd recommend taking 3 individual tanks rather than a squadron.
- Basilisks are only really useful in larger games, so maybe leave them at home for now.
- take a couple of veteran squads in chimeras or valks with 3x meltaguns for some scary AT power.
- I must admit I have a soft spot for sentinels, but sadly I don't find them too useful. Certainly not when they're in the highly competitive fast attack slot. If you are going to take them, outflanking with AC is a good way to go.

These are my recommendations for making a decent list. I've been playing IG for about 12 years, so i know a bit about making a list, but your mileage may vary.

As I said, if you post us a rough list of what you're thinking about including, we can offer some more specific tips

Good luck and welcome to the guard son!

imho gaurd work best when gun lined up. a few options for this:

gaurd platoons with massed hev weapons. i like the 5 hev weapon teams (3 x 3 autocannon and 2x 3 lazcannon). a hev wep in your command, and your inf are just basic + plasma/melta. infantry do your advancing and platforms sit back and shoot the ever loving empire out of anything in LOS. a few vet squads in chimera added in for mobile support kitted with plasma or melta make for a nice flank attack, and a few lemun russ as hev support.

i personally do NOT like squadrons of lemun russ or basilisk. they all have to fire at same target, immobilized = wrecked, and its just too damn expensive. 'lisks are also problematic since they have a minimum range, that in some games is the entire table.

i usually go hev support as 2x lemun russ (kitted to taste) and a demolisher. 3-4 vet teams with special wepaons, and 2 platoons full of hev wep platforms rounds out the list. youll have enough boots on the ground plus enough dakka to seriously mess up anything it looks at. (and as a plus, most people will shoot at your tanks and ignore the real damage dealers of the hev wep / vet teams - and if the reverse well, those tanks can also mess some $h!*** up.)

DarthSpader wrote:'lisks are also problematic since they have a minimum range, that in some games is the entire table.

I haven't got the codex infront of me so correct me if I'm wrong but I though basilisks had a direct fire mode? If they want to fire behind cover there's a minimum range.

disty wrote:

DarthSpader wrote:'lisks are also problematic since they have a minimum range, that in some games is the entire table.

I haven't got the codex infront of me so correct me if I'm wrong but I though basilisks had a direct fire mode? If they want to fire behind cover there's a minimum range.

Correct. Basilisks, Medusas, and Manticores have direct-fire mode, Colossi & Griffons do not.

To the OP, what is your intended point level and how competitive do you want to be?

It seems you have enough infantry for the time being, so the question is really about heavy and fast choices.

Especially if you want to be competitive, you should have access to IG best units: vendetta, executioner, hydra.

Vendettas are excellent in AT role and can scout move and deliver vets with meltas. But, the model is expensive, big, and highly visible.

Executioners are excellent at killing MEQ and good at killing MC. But, some people think they are too expensive and too specialized.

Hydras have a ton of TL firepower and are excellent against move-based cover saves. They are also dirt-cheap for what they do. But, the models are expensive unless you do a simple conversion of aegis quad on top of turretless chimera.

My favorite mode when playing guard is 'sledgehammer'. I have no subtlety, weakening my opponent with LRBT and basilisks while my blobs crash over them. Vendettas with veterans or penal legions fly around dealing with armor and storm troopers drop in to handle anything trickier.

Works well enough for me but I go for tabling my opponent rather than holding OBJ. If facing marines in a LR parked on the OBJ, I will have some problems cracking it but everything else is pretty easily dealt with.

This is a 1750-2500 pt scenario, btw.

-cgmckenzie

So far I'm aiming at a competitive list at 1500

I'm liking the sledge hammer my local opponent runs the same list and he's tabled me every game

I dont a codex yet but I plan on

Ccs,banner, autocannon, plasma? Vox And a couple flamers followed by a master of ordnance

Commissar with a powerfist and maybe carapace armor



Platoon w/ flamersx2, banner, vox and an autocannon

Guardsmen squad 1 with a pw sergeant and a Melta gun and possibly a heavy but don't know which one

Guardsmen squad 2 same setup

And havent decided to make vets or another platoon

I also want to include a conscript zombie squad just because it's that cool not sure if they're worth it alone or should add chevov also

Later I'm goin to add lemans and banewolfs to aid my troops should I or should I not

I wouldn't recommend putting a melta and a heavy in the same squad. The melta needs to be up close to be effective, and the heavy needs to stay still to fire, so something is gonna be wasted. I'd say keep the heavy in the infantry squad, and put the melta in a veteran squad.

Again, on the platoon command squad, having an autocannon and flamers means something is going to waste.

Also, if you're going to use the infantry squad as a firebase with a heavy weapon, you can probably lose the PW on the sergeant. If the engages this squad in combat, it's not going to help that much.

Definitely take some vets over another platoon.

Banewolves are great. take a couple and they should have fun. Can't go wrong with Russes.

right in that case what should be taken on the platoons if so

just auto cannons? what other options make use

For your platoon squads, i'd go with either autocannons or missile launchers jf they're going to be your firebase. Lascannons are overpriced for what they do, and there are much better sources for AT (vet squads, Stormtroopers and vendettas namely) The ACs and MLs will give you more versatility. I know a lot of people would advise against them, but a GL makes a nice accompaniment to an AC. Against marine equivalents within 24", it's like an extra shot for your AC and they're quite cheap.

If you're planning on blobbing them up, just take flamers or GLs, power weapons on the sergeants and a commissar or 2 with a power weapon.

Your PCSs should be kitted out with all the special weapons they can muster. They're a small, innocuous looking squad in a target rich environment, so they can often sneak under your opponents radar and raise some hell. 4x flamers or 4x meltas are both loadouts that i've had a lot of fun with.

Out of interest, what role did you want your CCS to fill? Is it going to be used offensively? Or is it going to hang back and hand out orders? Are special characters something you would look into?

I would advise against tricking out the CCS. Its primary usefulness is in giving army-wide features - orders and the abilities of the advisors. I find officer of the fleet to be particularly effective, followed by an astropath if you put a lot of things in reserve. Also, a strong argument can be made to upgrade the senior officer to Creed, for the extra orders.

It is easy to get crazy with the loadup of toys, because they are available and look cool and useful, and IG cannot take many in the infantry blobs. But, the BS4 of CCS makes them more expensive, and in the end, you want the HQ to survive to issue orders, rather than charge out there trying to flame or melta something. I think flamers/meltas in CCS are particularly wasteful because of this. An argument can be made for an AC, but again, I'd rather have the CCS stand someplace in cover and issue orders rather than try to get shots off.

The reality is that there are better ways to get access to special weapons for in-your-face tactics - just grab some more vet squads.

A banner is also wasteful, because the +1 will virtually never make a difference - you are IG, so expect to lose CC by a ton. It is a great model and I have two in my army (white/blue and gold/red/black) but I never buy the ability.

The only toy upgrade that makes sense to me in CCS is a vox caster, just in case some bum squad has trouble hearing. The problem is, most likely you will be issuing orders to HWTs to make their shots TL or ignore cover, and HWTs cannot get vox casters ("wags his finger disapprovingly at GW"). Ironic, since if any squad needs vox, it definitely is HWTs (low Ld, no commissar upgrade). Also, I am 90% sure you cannot have voxers in vet squads (my codex is not with me right now). On the upside, if you play blobs of combined squads, all you need is one voxer for the entire blob, so 5 pts is a very good deal for rerolling orders on a 30-men horde.

Chimera is also good, as a way to keep the squad alive, while the officer issues orders from inside (chimera is a command vehicle). On a side note, chimera should count as a vox as well (just look at the model! "wags his finger disapprovingly at GW"). You get Av12 vehicle, an ML and HB, all for 55 points! A steal!

So:
officer of the fleet - good
astropath - good
vox - ok
chimera - good
everything else - waste of points

Tbh I was just going to have my command sit back issue orders and drink coolatas

If there's anything I was going to give them it would be gl and an ac or plasma death

I'm not to big on the officer yes he works for a blob army but he's a two way street I could get screwed with a mob of Sm trying to swipe the obj on the last turn

The astorpath is nice especially if you got more storm troopers coming from valks

A chimera I think I will invest in at least for the command

And I didn't know about the multi voxer never thought about it before

Deffianlty will do the pw sergeant and the flamer/gl blobs

Remember if you take a vox every squad you order to has to have a vox as well. Its a deceptive upgrade (honestly I'd rather they jack the points up a bit and give the rerolls to everything; much more useful).

If I put them in a Chimera I wouldn't bother with any close combat toys; just keep them lean and mean as far back out of the fray as possible (maybe a heavy weapon in there to hit stuff at BS4). I'd make the most out of the orders, and remember if they're in a Chimera the order range is measured from the vehicle, which gives you a slightly bigger 'bubble'.

I agree - if you do give them a chimera, then you will want the chimera to stay put to fire both ML and HB, so since they don't move and can fire from the turret hatch, giving them a heavy weapon actually makes sense.

What to give them? My choice hands down is AC. Two shots at S7 with 48", and the officer can order his own squad to make them TL. Besides the AC's inherent awesomeness, the reason for the choice is that the CCS will be able to see guaranteed only the target of the chimera, which will be one that is susceptible to ML and HB. In most cases, this means light vehicles, for which AC is the best choice in the armory.

On the other hand, if you plan to roll behind powerblobs to keep in range for orders, the CCS will count as moving, which means HW cannot be fired. In that case, I'd take GL as they are assault weapons with 24" range.

I thought it doesn't count as moving thanks to being the chimera

I may be mistaken I don't have my book in front of me but I got the idea from the tac squad example with a missile and flamer combo

Since the rhino has two fire points you can fire both weapons as long as they are the same target

Again I could be wrong been awhile since I read my book

Looks Infected wrote:I thought it doesn't count as moving thanks to being the chimera

I may be mistaken I don't have my book in front of me but I got the idea from the tac squad example with a missile and flamer combo

Since the rhino has two fire points you can fire both weapons as long as they are the same target

Again I could be wrong been awhile since I read my book

I'll check this, but my understanding is that vehicles can fire HW on the move, e.g. a sentinel with an AC or a chimera with a HB. The passengers however do not benefit from that rule - if the vehicle moves, they count as moving as well. That is why assault weapons are preferable in there unless you have a relentless HW (e.g. Harkin).

It makes sense in practice as well - vehicle weapons are attached to the vehicle with specially designed mounts. A HWT cannot properly brace to fire if the vehicle is shaking all over.

Necrontyr40k is correct. No infantry heavy weapons firing while a tank moves, no matter the fire points. That's not to say a squad in a chimera w/ hull heavy bolter can't be a good pillbox for a few turns.