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I didn't know which forum this belonged in so :0

Hey, I recently bought some scouts and fitted them with CCW/BP with 1 of them having the Heavy Bolter.

I want to know if they could at all do anything useful in a 500/1000 pt game.

Should I swap out their weapons for Shotguns or Bolters, or just leave them as they are, keeping in mind I did not get the sniper boxed set.

My current 500 pt list has no dedicated CC units, the closest is a combat squad-ed Tac squad with a PF Sgt, Melta and 3 other marines.



-Paul

Personal recommendation? Switch them to the shotguns, then convert the shotguns into sniper rifles. (Empty the ink barrel from a disposable pen. Clip the barrel off the shottie body. Stick a piece of brass rod on to make a rifle barrel. Clip a piece of the ink barrel off and stick it on to make a silencer. Attach a scope. If you don't have enough scope bits, make a temporary one with the ink barrel.)

When it comes to scouts, I say go big or go home. Eight sniper rifles, one missle launcher (or heavy bolter, personal preference is for the launcher) and upgrade the sergeant to Telion.

Thanks

How do the different weapon configurations fair overall, my scouts are my only real cc unit, so if I gave them new weapons I'd be super naffed in CC.

With a weapons skill and an armor save of 3, Scouts in close combat are a no-no, at least as far as I am concerned. Maybe if they are on bikes, but even then only if the sergeant has the locator beacon and is just there so the Terminators won't scatter when they show up. I've tested various builds, and Tactical Marines are okay, but for my money the only infantry I want in melee is Terminators, Command Squads on bikes, or Bike Squads.

As far as load-out is concerned, keep the equipment for your Tac squads versatile. The build I use allows me to Combat Squad them into a long distance fireteam and an assault fireteam. With other units, if it is a specialized unit, play to that specialization. If it is a balanced unit, then keep the equipment balanced as well.

Scouts? Well here's the simplest set-up.

x4 Scouts with Shotguns
Sergeant with Shotgun, Powerfist (and meltabombs if you really want).

You then outflank them and go tank hunting. Cheap suicide unit that can easily make its points back by bagging a Land Raider, Hammerhead or what have you. Otherwise they can still find use as assault absorbers or objective holders.

My opinion of Darkvoid's set-up is being expressed by his avatar.

CCW/ BP and a LR Storm?
I got a Storm, as it looks cool on paper, and to have something to get around the back.

But, same question as the OP, but with added Storm . . .

Skinnereal wrote:CCW/ BP and a LR Storm?
I got a Storm, as it looks cool on paper, and to have something to get around the back.

But, same question as the OP, but with added Storm . . .

Ah, that little beauty is for a nice trick that involves scout-moving, then moving again on turn one, disembarking amidst one or more enemy vehicles and using a combi-melta on the Sergeant, as well as a Powerfist and/or Meltabombs to ensure destruction of the offending machine should the Combi-Melta fail.

Also, make sure to arm your Storm with a Multi-Melta for taking out another vehicle as well.

Ah, so CC/BP scouts and a Sgt W/Melta Bombs would be a good assaulting unit?



-Paul

PaulAnthony91 wrote:Ah, so CC/BP scouts and a Sgt W/Melta Bombs would be a good assaulting unit?



-Paul

They're more of a harassment unit, and if they're outflanking they're a good ace up your sleeve. You don't want them charging dedicated assault troops, but understrength squads, heavy weapons squads, and tanks are worth going after. I gave my sergeant a powerfist and in the game I used them in I was able to outflank and wreck a tank, kill some IG vets with shotgun fire, and cause a bit of a nuisance.

They're not a great unit, but they're not horrible either. Giving them sniper rifles is a huge waste IMO as they'll only hit half their shots then only wound half of those. While that's great against monstrous creatures, it's very situational, considering bolters will do just as well (occasionally better) against most things you're shooting at.

Ah thats cool, I might remove the dead weight combat squad from my 500 pt list and replace them with a LSS and give my scout sarge Melta-B's, I havn't got a spare powerfist, nor do I have a spare PW, so He's gonna have to use his chainsword for now, will the melta bombs be a substitute for the PF?



-Paul

PaulAnthony91 wrote:Ah thats cool, I might remove the dead weight combat squad from my 500 pt list and replace them with a LSS and give my scout sarge Melta-B's, I havn't got a spare powerfist, nor do I have a spare PW, so He's gonna have to use his chainsword for now, will the melta bombs be a substitute for the PF?



-Paul

Do you have room in your list? Because at 500 points, you really can't fit much of anything else in there. Plus, using a third of your points on basically a suicide unit isn't very smart. You aren't going to be seeing very many tanks at 500 points, and especially nothing that a missile launcher couldn't handle. These are tactics for 1000 points and over.

I have a Commander W/ LC+SB and Melta-B's

Tac Squad W/ PF, Melta-Gun & ML

Combat Squad

And my CC Scout Squad with a Heavy bolter.

Thats 498 pts, But I could remove the comnbat squad for a LSS or Razorback or Rhino or a pred or something.



-Paul

PaulAnthony91 wrote:I have a Commander W/ LC+SB and Melta-B's

Tac Squad W/ PF, Melta-Gun & ML

Combat Squad

And my CC Scout Squad with a Heavy bolter.

Thats 498 pts, But I could remove the comnbat squad for a LSS or Razorback or Rhino or a pred or something.



-Paul

How about instead of removing things, just up the points? Build to 750, it's a good, solid number.

You should make a new thread in the Army Lists section for this stuff though.

Ah, Oke, thanks , I was just thinking, at 500 pts the barebones combat squad isn't going to help me much, I could swap it out for a Predator W/ Heavy Bolter sponsons for five less points, which I can then give to the scout squad or my tac squad for Melta Bombs.



-Paul

PaulAnthony91 wrote:Ah, Oke, thanks , I was just thinking, at 500 pts the barebones combat squad isn't going to help me much, I could swap it out for a Predator W/ Heavy Bolter sponsons for five less points, which I can then give to the scout squad or my tac squad for Melta Bombs.



-Paul

At 500 points you may as well be playing Combat Patrol.

If you're going to buy things anyway, don't bother getting rid of anything. You could make use of that combat squad in several ways.. for example, make it a Command Squad with Meltas/Plasma, or beef it up to a second Tactical squad. At these low points, it might also be worth considering losing the benefit of them being a troops choice and using them as a bare-bones Sternguard veteran squad.

In 2nd through 4th Editions, Scouts made viable CC units. I can't tell you how many opponents of mine saw my CCW + Bolt Pistol armed Scouts and told me that I was using them wrong.

Then I killed them in CC and they shut up. Back then, Scouts were just full-on Marines with slightly worse armor.

With the 5th Edition nerf they got, they are now little more than glorified Guardsmen. I would give them sniper rifles, because BS is irrelevant with sniper rifles, and they can reach out and touch someone from quite a ways away.

Shotguns are decent for an assault, if you can thin your enemy out with shooting before you charge into CC. Lack of a second CCW hurts, though. I prefer getting as many swings at an opponent as I can.

At this stage of the game, however, kitting them out with CCWs and using them as an assault unit is not their most effective deployment. Unless you are fighting someone with a similarly low WS, of course. Even then, a 5-man unit will not even slow down a blob of IG who get a charge off on you...

squidhills wrote:
With the 5th Edition nerf they got, they are now little more than glorified Guardsmen. I would give them sniper rifles, because BS is irrelevant with sniper rifles, and they can reach out and touch someone from quite a ways away.

This is a fourth edition rule and is no longer in effect. They're godawful sniper units since they only hit half the time. I already went over this in my first post in this thread.

Brother SRM wrote:

squidhills wrote:
With the 5th Edition nerf they got, they are now little more than glorified Guardsmen. I would give them sniper rifles, because BS is irrelevant with sniper rifles, and they can reach out and touch someone from quite a ways away.

This is a fourth edition rule and is no longer in effect. They're godawful sniper units since they only hit half the time. I already went over this in my first post in this thread.

Well that's what I get for only playing my Thousand Sons in 5th Edition so far...

So sniper rifles are @$$ and scouts are @$$ in CC?

Conclusion: Don't take Scouts. Ever. They make poor snipers, and they make poor CC troops. They don't even make decent speed bumps. Unless you are filling in extra points that you don't know what to do with, leave them at home.

In fact, I'm taking them out of my miniatures case as soon as I get home from work.

I don't know, SRM, I still have to go with the Snipers. I recognize they wound less often, but they have a better chance of wounding higher toughness models, and one out of three wounds they do inflict are rending. Telion's ability to allocate the wounds he inflicts is also a huge boon against many units. I'm not saying make them the mainstay, but I only use one group of scouts, and it's the only way I use them.

Scouts still hit on 4s against just about everything, they just get hit back harder. They're not awful, and most of what you should have them charging is support units and the like. Telion's ability to allocate wounds IS good, but sniper rifles aren't great. If you're fighting anything weaker than Marines (Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar, Guard) they're completely worthless, but if you're against targets tougher than Marines they're okay. There's nothing I can say about them I haven't already said. The only thing is scouts with sniper rifles, camo cloaks, and a rocket launcher are an okay objective holding unit for real cheap. They're better as outflanking harassing units, whether you want them to punch bad guys or just wear camo cloaks and hide in cover for some close range firefighting.

I think I'm gonna keep them close combat and see how I fare with them, I want a sniper squad in my army regardless of the points level, I think they look cool and have some pretty cool abilities





-Paul

I would recommend them as shotguns and outflanking. Since you normally have quite a bit of long range firepower, taking sniper scouts tends to make a static force that doesn't do much unless you face mass monsterous creatures.

Well, Paul, it looks like I'm in the minority (as in the one man minority) on this one, so I'll concede defeat.

Shotguns and outflanking appear to be the words of the day.

Tellion comes with the stealth universal special rule. According to the GW faq if one model in the unit has stealth the whole unit benefits from the rule. If you buy tellion you don't need camo cloaks.

You save some points that way on your scouts!

Ah, awesome

I always planned to have two squads of scouts in my list (one with snipers and the other without) so I'll probablies put him in that squad when I get them.



-Paul

If you have your snipers in a ruin and there is a Techmarine in the army, then Telion's scouts can benefit from a 2+ cover save.

Jimsolo wrote:If you have your snipers in a ruin and there is a Techmarine in the army, then Telion's scouts can benefit from a 2+ cover save.

This is true.

I always use scouts 1. because I only have 2 full tac squads, so at 1500 I need them and 2. at low points levels they are more cost effective then tacticals. I'v never used tellion but he looks great on paper. I use sniper scouts (cause I'm more of a gunline guy), and I can tell you, other than the missile launcher, they haven't killed a blasted thing. But they are nice to take pot shots with, and they do camp an objective like no other.