Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just as the title says. My friend usually fields a lord with res orb joined in with a group of warriors. Whats the best way to take them out? I have used my vindicator on them, tilted the whole unit along with the lord. He wbb's them then ports them with his monolith with only 1 warrior actually dieing. This is very frustrating any suggestions would be awesome. I have tried CC them too but no luck(somewhat.) I have a 10 man assault squad, seageant has power fist. I always seem to get horrible roles when CC my friends' warriors. Anyway nothing usually ends up happening. Just last game(very ambarassing) I assaulted his 15 warriors with my 10 assault marines. I failed to kill any warriors and he killed 4 of me. And the worst part is....HE SWEEPING ADVANCED ME. My assault terminators do pretty awesome against him but they cant sweeping advance.

A question on the res orb. Lets say his lord(with orb) has joined a unit of warriors. I shoot my vindicator at him. since its S10 i would nullify wbb but since he has the res orb he gets wbb. Ok so i shoot my vindicator at him i manage to make the entire squad and lord tilt. Now its his turn, does the res orb still allow them to get wbb even tho i made the lord tilt? Or would he roll wbb for the lord and if that fails the other guys die too?

Also about a special ability the lord can do called the veil of darkness. It allows him to teleport himself and a unit of guys anywhere on the board. In his codex it says the lord can still use the veil of darkness EVEN IF HE IS IN BASE CONTACT of another unit. thats all it says. It says NOTHING it doesnt even mention whether hes locked in close combat or not. Can he use this to teleport himself and the squad out of close combat? Because thats what my friend has been doing...

Firstly, you roll like I do nice to know it's not just me

WBB requires another unit of the same type to be within 6'', unless a tomb spyder is around. If there isn't one that close no WBB. The lord can WBB without another lord being nearby. The Lord isn't 'another necron of the same type' and so cannot allow warriors to WBB by being nearby. You need more warriors nearby, or a spyder within 12'' and more warriors on the field.

Veil of Darkness is a piece of wargear (1/army IIRC) that the lord can take. He can teleport out of CC (pretty much the only time you are in base contact with an enemy ) and the Monolith can pull you from Close Combat also. It does require the unit to survive until the Necron turn to use it though

He re-appears much like Deep Strike IIRC (i never use the thing) which means he might well scatter somewhere unfortunate... **** double checked- you re-enter by deep strike, which makes a nice circular pattern ideal for a demolisher round ****

Haha yea thats what happened. He went first, used veil of darkness and went right into range of my vindicator. On my turn the vindicator fired, got a direct hit and caused all of them to tilt

He has other warriors nearby so are you saying that they can wbb even if the lord is tilted and no other lord around?

The lord has little to do with WBB, unless he has an orb.

He needs to have another unit of the same type within 6'' of the dead unit.

The Orb allows all units within 6'' of the orb to wbb even if killed by double strength weapons or power weapons.

If the whole unit got wiped within 6'' of another unit of warriors and they were within 6'' of the orb at the time they can wbb. They will join the nearest unit of warriors.

The lord can also wbb, as his orb affects him too, and will presumably also join that unit, as he was attached to the unit that was WBB ing, assuming he makes his WBB.

Lords don't count as another unit of the same type. You MUST have another unit of the same thing next to the dead unit to WBB, unless a spyder is within 12'' of that unit instead, and another unit of the same thing is on the field.

That vindicator should be firing on that monolith IMO S10 is a blessing, treat it well.

Otherwise, try sweeping advance the lord, as i'm quite sure he can't get back up from that.
With necrons i find that having lots of high AP wounds is better than having a few low AP wounds, just pour the fire at em, they'll fail their WBB eventually

Good answers.

To add, if the lord does not come back with the orb, the warriors that got wiped out by the demolisher cannon cannot come back, because S10 cancelled it. If he does come back, the rules are not crystal clear. It depends on if the WBB happens simultaneously or sequentially. If it happens simultaneously, then there is no orb until the lord comes back, so the warriors cannot come back. If the WBB is allowed to work sequentially, then working out the lord first means that the warriors can come back if he comes back.

Since GW works things out sequentially in the turn, e.g. pick unit, move unit, pick another unit, move another unit, etc., it is pretty clear to me that the correct mechanic is for the Necron commander to pick the order of working out WBB. If he is smart, he will first roll for the lord. Then his warriors stand a chance.

Note that if the lord fails the roll, the Necron commander can still teleport him through the monolith, granting a reroll. I do that all the time. But, according to the codex, this recycling happens at the end of the move phase, while WBB happens at the beginning of the Necron turn, so the lord failing the first WBB will not be around to help the others with their first roll, even if he manages to come back through his reroll.

I know, it is a mess. Hopefully, the new codex will clear all this confusing convolution, e.g. by giving them FNP.

Necrontyr40k wrote:Good answers.

To add, if the lord does not come back with the orb, the warriors that got wiped out by the demolisher cannon cannot come back, because S10 cancelled it. If he does come back, the rules are not crystal clear. It depends on if the WBB happens simultaneously or sequentially. If it happens simultaneously, then there is no orb until the lord comes back, so the warriors cannot come back. If the WBB is allowed to work sequentially, then working out the lord first means that the warriors can come back if he comes back.

Since GW works things out sequentially in the turn, e.g. pick unit, move unit, pick another unit, move another unit, etc., it is pretty clear to me that the correct mechanic is for the Necron commander to pick the order of working out WBB. If he is smart, he will first roll for the lord. Then his warriors stand a chance.

Note that if the lord fails the roll, the Necron commander can still teleport him through the monolith, granting a reroll. I do that all the time. But, according to the codex, this recycling happens at the end of the move phase, while WBB happens at the beginning of the Necron turn, so the lord failing the first WBB will not be around to help the others with their first roll, even if he manages to come back through his reroll.

I know, it is a mess. Hopefully, the new codex will clear all this confusing convolution, e.g. by giving them FNP.

First, yes the warriors can come back even if the lord failed his WBB because you measure for orb benefits when the model is wounded, NOT when it makes it's WBB roll. A lord always benefits from the res orb BUT if a lord is dropped first and then others are killed within 6" of him AFTER he is dropped (even awaiting WBB), they get no benefit from the res orb.

Second, if the OP's friend is using the monolith portal on a unit that was completely wiped and rerolling their failed WBB rolls, he is cheating you.

If a lord makes his WBB he does not join any unit unless he is within 2" of that unit, but instead the lord stands directly up where he was and does not move from that position like warriors would.

Also remember, only ONE member of a squad needs to be in range of the res orb for the ENTIRE squad to benefit from it.

And no, you CANNOT teleport ONLY a lord through the monolith. He MUST be attached to a unit. So if you have the lord in a squad of warriors and ALL warriors drop and the lord goes down as well, there is no possible way he would ever get a re-roll. If ONE warrior lived, you could teleport that warrior (and his squad + the lord) through the lith and get re-rolls. The reason is because if every warrior was downed, that unit no longer exists and cannot be teleported through the lith.

To Ascalam - Yes, the Veil of Darkness has you re-enter via deep strike rules.

Thanks for verifying that. I had edited my post saying that i'd checked it, but it's good to have it lower in the thread too

WBB is unneccesarily complicated, i feel. We'll jsut have to see what Ward makes of it

Kevin949 wrote:

First, yes the warriors can come back even if the lord failed his WBB because you measure for orb benefits when the model is wounded, NOT when it makes it's WBB roll. A lord always benefits from the res orb BUT if a lord is dropped first and then others are killed within 6" of him AFTER he is dropped (even awaiting WBB), they get no benefit from the res orb.

What is the source for that? I do not remember to have seen anything like that in the codex.

And no, you CANNOT teleport ONLY a lord through the monolith. He MUST be attached to a unit. So if you have the lord in a squad of warriors and ALL warriors drop and the lord goes down as well, there is no possible way he would ever get a re-roll. If ONE warrior lived, you could teleport that warrior (and his squad + the lord) through the lith and get re-rolls. The reason is because if every warrior was downed, that unit no longer exists and cannot be teleported through the lith.

What is the source of this? I don't have the codex with me, but I think the teleport refers to anyone with the necron special. So, no pariahs or scarabs, but all others get the reroll (destroyers, warriors, etc). The lord is a necron, so he should get it too. Why does he have to be part of a unit?

its says any one necron unit, which can include a lord as well (so 1 squad with a lord attached can go through).

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

First, yes the warriors can come back even if the lord failed his WBB because you measure for orb benefits when the model is wounded, NOT when it makes it's WBB roll. A lord always benefits from the res orb BUT if a lord is dropped first and then others are killed within 6" of him AFTER he is dropped (even awaiting WBB), they get no benefit from the res orb.

What is the source for that? I do not remember to have seen anything like that in the codex.

And no, you CANNOT teleport ONLY a lord through the monolith. He MUST be attached to a unit. So if you have the lord in a squad of warriors and ALL warriors drop and the lord goes down as well, there is no possible way he would ever get a re-roll. If ONE warrior lived, you could teleport that warrior (and his squad + the lord) through the lith and get re-rolls. The reason is because if every warrior was downed, that unit no longer exists and cannot be teleported through the lith.

What is the source of this? I don't have the codex with me, but I think the teleport refers to anyone with the necron special. So, no pariahs or scarabs, but all others get the reroll (destroyers, warriors, etc). The lord is a necron, so he should get it too. Why does he have to be part of a unit?

To answer your first question, the necron FAQ on the GW website.

"Q. When is the range of the resurrection orb
checked? At the time the Necron becomes
damaged or at the start of the turn when WBB is
rolled for?
A. Check range when a Necron becomes
damaged. If at least one (undamaged) model in
the unit is within 6" of a resurrection orb at that
point, leave the damaged Necron on the board.
Otherwise, immediately remove it from the table
as a casualty."

To answer your second question, the rule for the monolith. Read it VERY closely, it does say you can only teleport models with the necron rule and then it goes on to say what EXACTLY what you can teleport (Warriors, Flayed Ones, Wraiths, Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Immortals) and ANY LORD ATTACHED. It does not give permission to teleport the lord directly.