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Hello

So I've played many games now, and haven't won any yet. I'm an Ork player and I've only had battles against Tyranids.

Basicly, here is what I have;

1 battlewagon
50 boyz
5 nobz/mega nobz
3 deffcopters
11 lootas
1 Gazghul Thraka
1 warboss
1 mekboy/big mek

What happens is that in every game I always get outfanked with genestealers, which I'm not sure how to counter with what I have (Other then ghazgul and a few mega nobz)

Another problem is the doom of malan tai, because he can never mishap, he almost always gets within 6inchs of my boyz (or worse, gazghul) by deep striking. then, he will deep strike zoanthroaps by my battlewagon and take that out no questions asked.

How can I stop these things from happening?

Thank you

In hindsight you need more units to make a coherent army to fight the Nids back.

What kind of units does he have?

3 Zoanthroaps
1 carnifex
2 tervigons (he uses these a lot)
about 50 termagaunts
a Tygon Prime
a mawlok
a doom of malan tai
about 5 warriors, 1 prime
3 biovores
5 raviners
a death leaper
a swarmlord
a hive tyrant
3 hive guards

I *think* thats about it.

Just 50 boys? :(
What do you give your boyz atm? If you've been giving them ax + slugga, try giving them all shootas. Genestealers aren't tough when you're unloading half a ton of slugs into them.
This should also solve your doom of malantai problem if you can get rid of it early before it begins to stack on the wounds.
It looks like you're approach has been to get into CC and trying to muscle your way to victory; try shooting them with loads of shootas. Something to keep in mind with shootas is that every boy with a shoota is the equivalent of a marine with an 18" assault 1 s4 bolter (in reality they're a little better than theoretical wargear'd marine) so with 60+ boyz, you can easily take out entire squads before they get into CC.

Also if you want to be really playing against tyranids, try taking 3x15 tankbustas alongside your massed shoota boyz.

Yeah 50 boys is kinda limiting, I willl get more at some point. The problem I have with his genestealers, is his outflanking ability to come in from the table edge and charge into me on the same turn. I just cant counter it.

My boys have had a combination of shootas and sluggas, but didnt really help much.

Any ideas on how to stop the doom of malan tai from dropping into 6inch range of my units?

More battle waggons and KFF mek (convert your mek boy cause its the best thing in the codex). if you mech up, its another step between him and your boyz. then you can shoot him, he will assault your vehicles (zoans only can pop 1 and only 50% of the time with your KFF) and then you shoot again next turn then charge. controling the charge and shooting at his crappy 5+ saves will help.

i would also get some killa kans. if all you play is tyranids throw grotzookas on them. 6 S6 blast shots every turn will WRECK a blob of the little bugs. Or burnas in a battle wagon or the cheaper route, a looted wagon.

As far as the genestealers go; if you know hes outflanking them, stay as closely packed into the middle as you can. Yes this limits your movement, but with orks vs. tyranids its all about who gets the charge in my experience.

If you let the stealers charge you they WILL destroy you. Thats just what they do. If you can stay far enough away from the edge with big groups, and get a round of shooting in then charge, you can do very well against them. Shooting them is the way to go as they only have a 5+ armor save.

You can deny his outflanking somewhat by blocking off the sides with boyz mobs, but the tactic has it's own problems.

Staying in the middle means that they will have to suffer dakka before they jump you. Stealers are spongy, but very nasty in a fight. Lootas can make stealers vapor, as can burnaboyz

1) KFF Mek will provide cover saves against the Doom of Malenti

2) To deal with Zoanthropes and Doom use Rokkits. One failed 3++ save and Doom is dead. Zoaanthropes can be tied up in CC if he drops them too close to you.

3) Nids have a hard time against Killa Kans and Deff Dreads, especially when they're near a KFF. One Deff Dread will tie up Genestealers nicely. Grotzookas FTW.

4) I've found against Nids that a single Battlewagon is just a big, juicy, expensive target.

5) Zagstruk and some Stormboyz can really wreck nids. Use them against Hive Guard and Biovores.

6) More Boyz!

subwayheaven wrote:3 Zoanthroaps
1 carnifex
2 tervigons (he uses these a lot)
about 50 termagaunts
a Tygon Prime
a mawlok
a doom of malan tai
about 5 warriors, 1 prime
3 biovores
5 raviners
a death leaper
a swarmlord
a hive tyrant
3 hive guards

I *think* thats about it.

What points level are you playing? Tallying up the points on those 'nids, without any upgrades, (and without the Mycetic Spore for the Doom and without knowing the number of genestealers), that list is around 2500 points. It also has three HQ units, but so does your list, so I'm not 100% sure what's going on there. But your ork list you put up seems pretty small for that points range.

Cheers for the advice

we play around 1750, sometime s alittle higher, sometimes a little lower. He definatly has more of a "choice" then I have.

Stealers are a pain in the ass, I know, as my wife has a nice blob of them, and they always eat gak up. The counter to stealers though is shooting. Take all shoota boyz, slugga boyz against nids is just a waste, because they go last against everything that matters, and so those extra attacks are just wasted. Concentrate fire on a blob at a time, splitting your shooting up against every unit of the scary ones doesnt help you at all, as like Orks, killing a couple here and there doesnt help.

Kans/Dreads are fantastic against little bugs, because they simply cant do anything against them. So youve taken a deff dread and made him tie up a big ass blob of stealers an entire game, they wont win.

Rokkits are a MC worst nightmare. They ignore their armor saves and wound with ease. Not to mention against some (like the Doom) if he fails just 1 armor save from a rokkit, it suffers ID, weather it has 10 wounds or 1, its toast forever. So either start sticking rokkits into your boyz mobz, or take some tankbustas, as they kick Nids ASSES, for 2 reasons. Lots of rokkits, and the GloryHogs rule doesnt apply to Nids because they have 0 tanks.



Also, how are you running your boyz mobs anyways? Get 10 more boyz and make another PK nob so you can start taking 3 x20 boyz mobs with pk nob. This helps for a few reasons.
1) you now have 3 mobz of boyz with 3 pk nobz on the board instead of 2 big ass mobs.
2) this gives you 3 units of troops instead of 2. Why is this good? Most games are objective based, so in those games, you now have more options for taking objectives. ALSO if a unit of stealers assaults, or you assault a unit of stealers with a boyz mob, youll have 2 others on the board that can shoot and so on

I'm going to assume those are the entire collections and not just what they play with every time.

OT more boyz! get ghaz in a battlewagon with 15 burnas. Watch the nids melt before you.

Also Id like to add dont throw Ghaz at the stealers unless you still have your WAAAGH! left. Other wise all those rending claws will laugh at our mighty Warboss

as i read from the ork codex and my own expereinces. take veichles and other big things

"Kans/Dreads are fantastic against little bugs, because they simply cant do anything against them. So youve taken a deff dread and made him tie up a big ass blob of stealers an entire game, they wont win. "

How? I was thinking about this for the past couple of days but wouldnt they get killed in the first turn because of the amount of rendering?

"Also Id like to add dont throw Ghaz at the stealers unless you still have your WAAAGH! left. Other wise all those rending claws will laugh at our mighty Warboss "

I dunno how I did it, but I manged to take a few wounds to my mega armored nobz, but wipe out 11 genestealers and a broodlord in one turn with ghazghul and 10 mega armored nobz.

Rending makes it POSSIBLE for the Genestealers to hurt Kans and Dreads, but really unlikely.

10 Genestealers will get you 30 attacks on the charge. 20 of those will hit. Out of those 20 only 3.3 will rend. Of those on average you'll get 2 penetrators and a glancer. The Tyranid player would have to roll really lucky to kill all three Kans, but it's possible. Against a Deff Dread the odds are even lower.

Meanwhile your Deff Dread will probably kill 3-4 Genestealers a turn, depending on how many CCW you gave him, and your squad of Kans will probably down 2 per turn since they'll need 5's to hit.

Also, don't take Tankbustas against Nids. They're not as great as you think. Rokkit Buggies, DeffKoptas and Rokkit Kans are much better.

Forgive my persistence but Looted Wagon w/ Boomguns have done great against Nids for me.

As a Tyranid player, I second the vote for Rokkits. They are horrible!

I miss the old T 7 2+ deathbeetles. They were a decent challenge, even with Rokkits aplenty

BURN them! put a kombi-scorcha on every meganob/the boss. auto hits and removes on 2s! Yeah! And generally look out for template weapons! Some advive: put a kannon on your wagon and soot blasts! they're S4 so defensive weapons remember? plus you get an extra rokkit from the krak shell. Speaking of kannons, why not getsome grot-atillery?

Boris420 wrote:Forgive my persistence but Looted Wagon w/ Boomguns have done great against Nids for me.

Agreed, dunno why I didnt think to add that one in there, I use boomgun wagons often. Sure they are a tad finiky sometimes, but you cant argue with the outcome when they work well. Not to mention the large blast template can REALLY screw the genestealer blobs, specially if terrain works against them, or they are fresh out of an assault and are a little tighter then the nid player would like. A template in those situations will snag a bunch of death

Sorry for the late reply, thanks for the advice, I think im going to focus on staying away from the edge of the board, using kans to shoot/charge at genestealers.

The only think that puts me off rockets, is the 2 BS skill so if a squad of boyz has 3 of them, only 1will hit. Plus his zoanthroaps and doom of malan tai has a 3+ invunrelble save :(

Flame and Rokkit, are the nemesis of Nids'.

I always use take three Big Lobbas to battle. They work great against smaller nids like genestealers and termagaunts. 84 points for three blasts with rerolls.

Kombiscorchas makes BBQ of most nidz

Firstly, the Big Gunz only get 3 max rerolls, might want to make that a little clear.

Also, yes rokkits with a BS2 isnt that great, but you only need those fellas to fail that save once, then they are toast. Having a bunch of them in your army here and there, your GOING to tag a thrope/DOOM with one of them. Id rather have a chance of cause ID on one then none at all

Cheers for the help everyone

I'm thinking about maybe having about 10 tankbusters with rokkits in a battlewagon, with 4 rokkits lol. Would that be good? could they be better used?


Also, is the trucks "Shamebuckle" (or whatever it's called) a good thing? Looking at it I can see room for a lot of things going wrong (rolling a 3-4 and ending up moving the truck in the opposite direction to the enemy)

Which is greater to kill genestealers, deff dread, or 3 kans?

P.S Oh and does a tank hammer give me S10 against non-vehicles.....please say yes lol

Also can you add an IC to a unit with a special upgraded charector? Like could I add Ghazghul to a squad of kommanders with boss snirok? If this is true, couldn't I also add a warboss to a squad of boys with a nob?

Putting 4 rokkits on your battewagon is only useful is you want it to stay immobile. Immobile isnt a good idea around nids, as your rear armour (which they will be assaulting) is only 10.

I'd get a killkannon on the thing instead, and drive around shooting, or just a regular kannon as it can be fired in burst mode as a defensive weapon or used as a rokkit launcher equivilent.

Tankbustas are quite handy as passengers sometimes, and the firepower is impressive. Consider putting a KFF big mek in with them to give the wagon some survivability.

Ramshackle is an orky thing. It's not really good or bad, jsut orky. Sometimes it will savve your passengers from a fiery death from an exploded result, other times they will zoom across the battlefield to your warboss then explode, killing themselves and most of the unit he's attached to (bin there..)

3 kanz with skorchas Everyone hates skorchakanz, but they come in handy for pest control, and ignore that annoying venomthrope cover save...

1 deffdredd with 2 skorchas works well too, is cheapish, and is a troops choice with a big mek.

Tank hammer confers S 10. Vehicle, space marine or can of squig pie filling all get hit with S 10.

You can add any model with the Independent character rule to any unit. Ghaz can rill with the Kommandos, Warbosses can lead boyz mobz with a Nob sidekick, Big Meks can join units to use as ablative wounds etc etc

Recently, in an RTT, I had a great time against Nids in the final game. I played a combined list, 6 Kanz, 2x30 Boyz, 2x5 Lootas, 2 Deffkoptas, Bigmek w/ kff, Warboss on bike, 10 Nob Bikerz. He had something like 8 Hive Guard, Trygon, Tervigon, Genestealers, and what not. There should be a battle report out here somewhere.

take more dreads and characters