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Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

Just watched a mind-boggling technology show about these new printers that are coming out, which have the ability to print out stuff in 3D! Some printers were filled with sugar and printed out 3D sweets, others were filled with titanium dust and produced brand new hip replacements! Holy cow! Your computer scans something, feeds the info into a printer, you provide the materials, and hey presto what we have is something that will revolutionise manufacturing by giving people the ability to make anything from curtain rings to keys, model parts, to space marines made out of sugar...

Now here's the crux of the discussion. Sooner or later market forces will drive down the prices of these printers so that everyone can have one. Now, as sure as I have a hole in my rear, it won't be long before someone says to themselves -hmmm why don't I make my own versions of goblins/skeletons/orcs after all, how expensive is plastic?

Is this the death knell, not just for GW, but for other companies out there?

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in au
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




Wollongong, Australia

This will probably turn out to be a gimmick.

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Well, considering the cost for one of these 3D printers (10,000-15,000 USD from what I have seen) it will be a long while before these affordable for the average hobbyist. I imagine GW will improve their manufacturing techniques, in some way, as to make themselves competitive by the time 3D printers are affordable.
   
Made in gb
Courageous Grand Master




-

Forgot to mention that some American inventors have invented a more affordable version, the thing-o-matic. It's not very expensive to buy, and all you need is basic PC equipment to scan things for you. The possibilities are endless.

"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne








No, 3d printing at the resolution required for 28mm scale models isn't even remotely near being affordable any time soon.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

lord_blackfang wrote:No, 3d printing at the resolution required for 28mm scale models isn't even remotely near being affordable any time soon.


But it will be eventually. You don't know how quickly the technology will advance, lots of people couldn't see the point of private ownership of computers at home because they were too expensive and specialised.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances






I think 3D printing technology being good enough and cheap enough to be ubiquitous is so far off GW is more likely to kill itself off before it becomes a threat.

The 3D priniting tech is good enough now, thats why miniature companies have been able to use it to produce models, but its not cheap enough. Most of the companies using 3D printers still send them out to companies that perform the 3D printing as a service, while the printers cost as much as some mid-level vehicles. Unless you're a business approaching GW's size, or specializing, you can never justify the price of purchasing such a piece of equipment. Once we see machings of that quality (+/- 5 microns) for ~$3000 then I think there is a greater risk to manufacturers, but even then aside from needing the expertise to operate it, you'll also need aptitude in creating the digital models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/01 13:24:57


 
   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee




Neenah, Wisconsin

I think one thing it has done is open up even smaller niche markets in miniatures. I've especially seen this among players of spaceship based games of all types. If you've ever been to Starship Combat News you will find several sellers using Shapeways to "print" their own small miniature lines. This has given sales access to people that would previously have been casting just one or two of their designs for their own collection.

I do not think this is a threat to larger manufacturers though. If it were to become a problem there's no reason they couldn't adapt as well. Being able to record cassettes didn't kill the music industry. Being able to burn CD's didn't either. And now they have adapted to online downloadable music. Miniatures manufacturers may need to do something similar.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

xtceze wrote:Well, considering the cost for one of these 3D printers (10,000-15,000 USD from what I have seen) it will be a long while before these affordable for the average hobbyist. I imagine GW will improve their manufacturing techniques, in some way, as to make themselves competitive by the time 3D printers are affordable.


Pretty much this.

The price would have to come down considerably for it to be a real threat. If someone were to spend $10k on a device, they'd either make stuff for personal use or start making copies to sell. The former wouldn't bother GW one bit since losing one customer is no big deal. Further, a guy that can drop $10k on a 3D printer can get a gak-ton of miniatures for that price. The latter will rile up the lawyers and get the guy sued and/or jail time. No smart person would spend $10k on a business plan that would net them jail.

Not saying no one would try it. Just saying it's not a smart business plan.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/08/01 15:08:52


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Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Kyrolon wrote:I think one thing it has done is open up even smaller niche markets in miniatures. I've especially seen this among players of spaceship based games of all types. If you've ever been to Starship Combat News you will find several sellers using Shapeways to "print" their own small miniature lines. This has given sales access to people that would previously have been casting just one or two of their designs for their own collection.


There's a reason why companies that use Shapeways always only show the 3d render and not the printed model. They resolution is atrocious.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
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Fixture of Dakka






Arlington, Texas

Large-scale older manufacturing is still way too efficient for this to be anywhere near an issue. Kinda like saying that because people have printers at home no one will buy the newspaper.

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Made in gb
Oberleutnant





There is at least one historical manufacturer already doing tanks using this technique. Some of the detail on them is ridiculously fine. (As I recall they are 1/72 and 15mm.)

http://www.miniaturefigurines.co.uk/Catalogue.aspx?ScaleID=10&CategoryID=37&SubCategoryID=206

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio 
   
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South Carolina (upstate) USA

lord_blackfang wrote:
Kyrolon wrote:I think one thing it has done is open up even smaller niche markets in miniatures. I've especially seen this among players of spaceship based games of all types. If you've ever been to Starship Combat News you will find several sellers using Shapeways to "print" their own small miniature lines. This has given sales access to people that would previously have been casting just one or two of their designs for their own collection.


There's a reason why companies that use Shapeways always only show the 3d render and not the printed model. They resolution is atrocious.


DreamForge Games uses this to make the masters for their models. The print process leaves what they call "stepping" which has to be sanded smooth before molds can be made and casting begins. Its a great system for people who are good with computers, but not so good sculpting greenstuff. It goes like this: CAD design, print, sanding/finishing, mold creation, casting,

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Made in gb
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Oxfordshire UK

I don't really think this will be an issue for at least another decade, maybe more.
I saw a 3D printer on 'Click' this morning, and although the results were not too bad the time it took and the money involved were fairly staggering. Even by GW's pricing!
The good old mold still has a few more years left in it......


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I would totally print a titanium Necron Lord and play it with no paint on it.


 
   
Made in no
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets







lord_blackfang wrote:
No, 3d printing at the resolution required for 28mm scale models isn't even remotely near being affordable any time soon.


QFT.

The 3d printers are great for geometrical shapes and larger scale stuff.

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Made in us
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The risk of 3d printers to miniatures is about the same as the risk of printers to books, or VCRs to the movie industry.

It might cause some pirating, but in the long run it will be a lot cheaper and easier to just buy the products from the store.

keisukekun wrote:I would totally print a titanium Necron Lord and play it with no paint on it.


I saw a guy who had Warmachine stuff (Khador warjacks) copper plated, then brushed to create different textures and colors. It looked freaking fantastic.

text removed by Moderation team. 
   
Made in us
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Pullman, WA

lord_blackfang wrote:
Kyrolon wrote:I think one thing it has done is open up even smaller niche markets in miniatures. I've especially seen this among players of spaceship based games of all types. If you've ever been to Starship Combat News you will find several sellers using Shapeways to "print" their own small miniature lines. This has given sales access to people that would previously have been casting just one or two of their designs for their own collection.


There's a reason why companies that use Shapeways always only show the 3d render and not the printed model. They resolution is atrocious.


Have you ordered stuff from these companies before? I've bought several models and items off of Shapeways, and they actually have good resolution. True, you're not getting 1mm roman numerals on banners or armor, but you're getting a custom, detailed, unique miniature for about $3-4 (which includes shipping, a nice bonus I found out after ordering). It's definately not feasible for a full GW army atm, but is perfect to get an awesome daemon/hero/centerpiece unit for 1/10th the cost of one from GW direct.

Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.

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The Great State of New Jersey

Howard A Treesong wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:No, 3d printing at the resolution required for 28mm scale models isn't even remotely near being affordable any time soon.


But it will be eventually. You don't know how quickly the technology will advance, lots of people couldn't see the point of private ownership of computers at home because they were too expensive and specialised.


The average price for a decent 3d printer is 5 figures, say 20,000 USD. The price of the printers capable of printing with a resolution that is useful to 28mm miniatures is 6 figures, last I checked about 120,000 USD. Currently, 3d printers are pretty much flying off the shelves for industrial purposes. Sales have never been higher, and the manufacturers can't meet demand, and the prices have barely come down any at all... My guess is we won't see affordable printers for another 10 years, and affordable printers capable of making an impact in this hobby for 15-20.... Even then, the current technology for 3d printers won't allow you to actually produce a large quantitiy of minis. Printers are used for prototypes, the upper limit of economic feasibility being like 10 copies of something, and even that is pushing it, usually you only want to make 1 print of something, because there are no real economies of scale when it comes to printing. You then need to rely on more traditional methods of production in order to duplicate it. The only time printers are really feasible for more than just a handful of objects is when the object being produced is really small, like a small 28mm head sized object, which either prints really quickly, or you can print a bunch of simultaneously.

Besides that, there is the cost of software required to use 3d printers, which itself costs hundreds or even thousands of dollars, and has a very steep learning curve (and depending on which software/methods you're using and what you're tryng to accomplish, you often need several software packages working in conjunction), and I'll give you a bit of a hint: most of the people that do know how to use this kind of software are pretty well paid and knowledgable about the subject, and frequently use the software under license from their employers, and are unlikely to risk losing their jobs via copyright infringement, especially when they usually have more than enough money to buy actual GW stuff off the shelf without batting an eyelid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/01 18:54:37


CoALabaer wrote:
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Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Large-scale older manufacturing is still way too efficient for this to be anywhere near an issue. Kinda like saying that because people have printers at home no one will buy the newspaper.
No one buys the newspaper because of the internet, lol oh and phones.

I suspect that by the time 3d printers are cheap enough to work all miniature painting will be long gone, all gamers having gone the route of some hybrid megasocial MMORPGS or 3D games or computer something or others, it's already happening...
   
Made in ca
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Canada

I see GW using 3D printers themselves before hobbyists do.

Low volume production runs and "limited edition" runs would be an option.


Perhaps even custom figures along the lines of how Battle Foam makes custom foam trays. Using software provided by GW you scan and/or build a 3D model of what you want produced and send it to them for production.

Need 50 shoulder pads with 3D lettering? No problem. Sculpted your own custom deamon and want a 20 of them? No problem. Need 10 sets of those pesky legs you only get 1 of in a kit? No problem.

While I have no illusion that we'll be paying up the wazoo for this service, I also have no doubt it'll be a 3 month wait list. This is of course assuming they're not as bad as I keep hearing around here or they improve -edit- They being GW -/edit-.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Augustus wrote:
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Large-scale older manufacturing is still way too efficient for this to be anywhere near an issue. Kinda like saying that because people have printers at home no one will buy the newspaper.
No one buys the newspaper because of the internet, lol oh and phones.

I suspect that by the time 3d printers are cheap enough to work all miniature painting will be long gone, all gamers having gone the route of some hybrid megasocial MMORPGS or 3D games or computer something or others, it's already happening...


I disagree, by the time this happens I see table top animated 3D holograms. Now picture SEEING the cleansing flame of your heavy flamers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/08/01 22:47:38


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Not awesome but...

http://www.shapeways.com/model/148756/28mm_terran_powered_infantry_squad.html?gid=mg

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Pullman, WA

@Agnosto: And at GW prices too!

On a side note, the user tedparsec has done some amazing minis. They're more for D&D-type individual characters, but they're very well done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/01 21:47:08


Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.

The Ironwatch Magazine

My personal blog 
   
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Chicago, Illinois

Short Answer no.

Long Answer NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

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Did you say new ? quite a few british universities have this technology already and have done for a while not to mention the list of buisness and private owners of 3D printers i found a model for £10 000 also just to add that Games workshop has already tried out rapid prototyping.


Crux


[Thumb - IMG_0110.jpg]

   
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One appears in Jurassic Park 3 - used to create a 'raptor voice-box/plot device. That's a few years ago now.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






I think thats pretty awesome!


Looks like Terran Marine:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/01 23:03:05


 
   
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Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Yeah but darkprince is right; it's still GW pricing.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think the future of 3d printing for the masses is not that far off in the scheme of things.

http://www.makerbot.com/

I think 10 years from now 3d printing done on the cheap (for models that is) will be available for personal use.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/02 00:02:02


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I think the OP raised an interesting idea that if 3D printers became affordable in the (far) future, would it cause issues for miniature companies. Probably not however It’s a pretty cool idea to be able to download a file containing someone’s 3D sculpt and print out a model.

A home version of the device is definitely a long way away however more affordable 3D printer models could mean such devices cropping up at local universities and workshops.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/02 00:05:16


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