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gungo wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Don't forget we get actual 40k rules now for Squigoths and (if you can afford him) the Gargantuan Squiggoth! Looking forward to seeing what those rules will be like. Mabye an alternative to trukks & BWs.

Forgeworld are parring down thier models for 40k right now so who knows what makes the cut or what doesn't make the cut and if they do rules for oop models.

True. Definitely not the time to buy anything.

 davou wrote:
OMG guys, its happeneing!!! We're gonna need a new thread!

I really like what Waaagh 18 did to start this thread. He really did a good job. There's valuable info there, even though it's not been updated for a long time.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I'll go first. Remember, these are my opinions and aren't set in stone by any means:
Green = Da Best
Blue = Very Good
Yellow = Average
Red = Below Average (don't take in a competitve list)

We need this for the new edition to start the discussions!

I'll gladly follow your lead if you wanna take charge of starting the next tactica

 davou wrote:
I'll gladly follow your lead if you wanna take charge of starting the next tactica

I'll be on vacation out of the country during the 8th edition release, so I don't think I'll have much time for that... We'll see!

We have to actually see something before we can start a new thread

Don't know if SWA can be an identifier to what could happen but from what we've had there so far, mellee orks are kinda not viable. With the movement characteristic returning, orks got a 4 movement whereas ranged weapons remained the same. Sure, there's less shots going on overall but it's still extremely hard to get to the enemy that's actively avoiding cc if you don't spam special weapons yourself - and they are so expensive you can't really hoard up anymore. Well, another thing is that every hit causes pinning and orks can't reliably get up with our lowly ini 2 or 1 with 'eavy armor. So, it might be different for the larger games.

Anywayz, the return of movement characteristics can be a bad thing for us orks if we want to go choppy. And a good thing if we want to go shooty. Especially with all the rend modifiers going on. Pretty sure lootas will end up with sustained (like they currently are) and a -3 rend for deffguns. And bigshootas are gona get -2 which will be a gamechanger for shoota mobs.

Nothing is for certain at this moment, however. Interesting, will they return termies back to 3+ on 2d6? Doubt it. 1+ armor is more likely there.

 koooaei wrote:
Don't know if SWA can be an identifier to what could happen but from what we've had there so far, mellee orks are kinda not viable. With the movement characteristic returning, orks got a 4 movement whereas ranged weapons remained the same. Sure, there's less shots going on overall but it's still extremely hard to get to the enemy that's actively avoiding cc if you don't spam special weapons yourself - and they are so expensive you can't really hoard up anymore. Well, another thing is that every hit causes pinning and orks can't reliably get up with our lowly ini 2 or 1 with 'eavy armor. So, it might be different for the larger games.

Anywayz, the return of movement characteristics can be a bad thing for us orks if we want to go choppy. And a good thing if we want to go shooty. Especially with all the rend modifiers going on. Pretty sure lootas will end up with sustained (like they currently are) and a -3 rend for deffguns. And bigshootas are gona get -2 which will be a gamechanger for shoota mobs.

Nothing is for certain at this moment, however. Interesting, will they return termies back to 3+ on 2d6? Doubt it. 1+ armor is more likely there.

In my experience, Orks kick butt in melee in SW:A! Just with regular Boys: WS 4 is a big bonus, slugga/choppa means 3 dice to roll, and getting +2 on the charge for being an Ork is also a big advantage. The key is movement, you have to force them into a corner by lurking (moving + hiding) into range to threaten them with charges. The shoota boys and big shoota are there to funnel them towards the melee mob.

Move characteristic in 40k will make things different, for sure. More incentive to mount up for me, I play a heavily mechanised army already, so I can't see it really changing my playstyle.

TBH I'm in no way looking forward to 8th Edition if it's going to be more like AoS. I bought my first non-Ork models last December (Nurgle Demons) because I could use them in both formats. If 40K becomes more like AoS, what's the point?

I understand a company's desire to make an easier game like AoS but now that they have it, why dumb down 40K? I read the FAQ that promises they won't but only have reservations at this point. That being said, I'll probably keep my Ork models or use as AoS Greenskins.

Let's blow out the rest of 7th and go down swinging, cross our fingers, and keep on dreaming.

 PipeAlley wrote:
TBH I'm in no way looking forward to 8th Edition if it's going to be more like AoS. I bought my first non-Ork models last December (Nurgle Demons) because I could use them in both formats. If 40K becomes more like AoS, what's the point?

I understand a company's desire to make an easier game like AoS but now that they have it, why dumb down 40K? I read the FAQ that promises they won't but only have reservations at this point. That being said, I'll probably keep my Ork models or use as AoS Greenskins.

Let's blow out the rest of 7th and go down swinging, cross our fingers, and keep on dreaming.

Personally, I don't think it's going to change to the extent you may be fearing. I'm not saying it's going to be a perfect release; there will always be problems. But in this instance, I have at least some confidence when they say they won't go to the same extent they went to with AoS. They seem quite adamant on that point.

 Jambles wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Don't know if SWA can be an identifier to what could happen but from what we've had there so far, mellee orks are kinda not viable. With the movement characteristic returning, orks got a 4 movement whereas ranged weapons remained the same. Sure, there's less shots going on overall but it's still extremely hard to get to the enemy that's actively avoiding cc if you don't spam special weapons yourself - and they are so expensive you can't really hoard up anymore. Well, another thing is that every hit causes pinning and orks can't reliably get up with our lowly ini 2 or 1 with 'eavy armor. So, it might be different for the larger games.

Anywayz, the return of movement characteristics can be a bad thing for us orks if we want to go choppy. And a good thing if we want to go shooty. Especially with all the rend modifiers going on. Pretty sure lootas will end up with sustained (like they currently are) and a -3 rend for deffguns. And bigshootas are gona get -2 which will be a gamechanger for shoota mobs.

Nothing is for certain at this moment, however. Interesting, will they return termies back to 3+ on 2d6? Doubt it. 1+ armor is more likely there.

In my experience, Orks kick butt in melee in SW:A! Just with regular Boys: WS 4 is a big bonus, slugga/choppa means 3 dice to roll, and getting +2 on the charge for being an Ork is also a big advantage. The key is movement, you have to force them into a corner by lurking (moving + hiding) into range to threaten them with charges. The shoota boys and big shoota are there to funnel them towards the melee mob.

Move characteristic in 40k will make things different, for sure. More incentive to mount up for me, I play a heavily mechanised army already, so I can't see it really changing my playstyle.

But what's exactly prohibiting them from going on oerwatch and killing you while you move?

 koooaei wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Don't know if SWA can be an identifier to what could happen but from what we've had there so far, mellee orks are kinda not viable. With the movement characteristic returning, orks got a 4 movement whereas ranged weapons remained the same. Sure, there's less shots going on overall but it's still extremely hard to get to the enemy that's actively avoiding cc if you don't spam special weapons yourself - and they are so expensive you can't really hoard up anymore. Well, another thing is that every hit causes pinning and orks can't reliably get up with our lowly ini 2 or 1 with 'eavy armor. So, it might be different for the larger games.

Anywayz, the return of movement characteristics can be a bad thing for us orks if we want to go choppy. And a good thing if we want to go shooty. Especially with all the rend modifiers going on. Pretty sure lootas will end up with sustained (like they currently are) and a -3 rend for deffguns. And bigshootas are gona get -2 which will be a gamechanger for shoota mobs.

Nothing is for certain at this moment, however. Interesting, will they return termies back to 3+ on 2d6? Doubt it. 1+ armor is more likely there.

In my experience, Orks kick butt in melee in SW:A! Just with regular Boys: WS 4 is a big bonus, slugga/choppa means 3 dice to roll, and getting +2 on the charge for being an Ork is also a big advantage. The key is movement, you have to force them into a corner by lurking (moving + hiding) into range to threaten them with charges. The shoota boys and big shoota are there to funnel them towards the melee mob.

Move characteristic in 40k will make things different, for sure. More incentive to mount up for me, I play a heavily mechanised army already, so I can't see it really changing my playstyle.

But what's exactly prohibiting them from going on oerwatch and killing you while you move?

With a limited 90 degree Overwatch arc, and generally dense cover, I would abuse the flanks - you'll always outnumber, so you can spread out and the enemy won't be able to cover every angle of attack. That's assuming you're going for the Bottle, of course - otherwise you're playing for objectives anyways...

No, i mean cover's not taking 100% of board space - it's close to 50% in fact and not everything blocks los. So, you hide and than have to move to another piece. Even if you just move 4 and try to hide again, you're visible while you move and they can shoot you. Taking into consideration a pretty large amount of cheap shooting enchanters like lazer dots or ignore cover, they'll be able to hit you pretty reliably. Most terrain, at least here, is ruins with windows, so they'll often see this 1% of your model - enough to make a shot - albeit with a sizable to-hit penalty but than they're usually bs 4 or higher with skills + have means of either lowering your cover or further improving their to-hit chances. So, they're still hitting on ~5+. And than there is open ground that you havve to cross to get anywhere. And it's >4' usually.

 koooaei wrote:
No, i mean cover's not taking 100% of board space - it's close to 50% in fact and not everything blocks los. So, you hide and than have to move to another piece. Even if you jus move 4 and try to hide again, you're visible while you move and they can shoot you. Taking into consideration a pretty large amount of cheap shooting enchanters like lazer dots or ignore cover, they'll be able to hit you pretty reliably.

Well, I guess pack up the Orks then?
Somehow, I've made it into melee in Shadow War, I assure you that you can as well. Considering most Ork shooting in this game is still very innacurate even within 12", you're going to have to get close regardless playing greenskins.
Overwatch just doesn't cover everywhere, I'm not sure how your opponents are able to do this - but in that theoretical situation, I guess I'd throw a yoof at them to take the shot. Same as Orks in 40k, take a few hits getting in but there's always more boys.
Against smaller unit count armies like Necrons, I haven't even had to lurk, just run at them every turn and count on cover + run bonus. Once you get a couple of guys locked in melee they're boned.

We have bigshootas. Deadly weapons and not heavy. That's what allowed me to get anywhere. And yep, yoffs took damage. Though i was trying to eat fire with boyz at first cause i kitted them for mellee and they were running a bit ahead armed with 4+ armor but than i quickly found out that they ain't getting anywhere with ini1 to escape pinning. So, my plan is to arm boyz with shootas and than get a choppa just in case - but that's later on in the campaing when i get points, yoffs get cheaapo stuff like sluggas or choppas or even an extra knife or nothing at all - they'll later also get shootas. This way, i can field 2 bigshootaboyz with lazer dots, nob with a shoota, choppa and a lazer dot and 6 extra bodies to get up to 9 from the get go. Should help vs bottle tests.

just confirmed, charging models get ALL of their attacks first.....

Were back

 davou wrote:
just confirmed, charging models get ALL of their attacks first.....

Were back

Welcome back, 5e powerklaw meta. You were never too far from the game.

For real this is going to be interesting with unwieldy.

 davou wrote:
just confirmed, charging models get ALL of their attacks first.....

Were back

YES!

So, to make orks competitive, get some of the models known as "boyz" and give them the wargear called "choppas." Then put them in the MC-like vehicles known as "Trukks"...

With the caveat of Command Points - there were some implications they could be used to counter charges...

Also I wonder if Unwieldy will remain, to keep power fists and the like attacking last despite the new rule?

Yes we can play walkers finally!

The command points can be used to interrupt charges, but only once. If they use all of their points to blunt a waaaagh, we would still have ours left over to counterattack.

Give 12 move to nauts please!

 JimOnMars wrote:
The command points can be used to interrupt charges, but only once. If they use all of their points to blunt a waaaagh, we would still have ours left over to counterattack.

can you imagine spending command points to interrupt a player charging your kannons to counter charge them with warbikes?!

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
The command points can be used to interrupt charges, but only once. If they use all of their points to blunt a waaaagh, we would still have ours left over to counterattack.

can you imagine spending command points to interrupt a player charging your kannons to counter charge them with warbikes?!

Yes, i can!

Nice.... nice... nice.

We got rolled up with all the xenos factions in one book.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
We got rolled up with all the xenos factions in one book.

Will these be placeholder books, I wonder? A physical copy of the army lists available to the factions contained therein, there to tide us over until a dedicated faction book is released?

Am I right in remembering that Age of Sigmar started with everyone having an army list available (albeit, not in a book), and then after they released specific books for particular factions over time? The "Battletomes" I think...

I for one dont mind having rules for nids, tau, crons and eldar as a bonus for buying the orks

 davou wrote:
I for one dont mind having rules for nids, tau, crons and eldar as a bonus for buying the orks

Somewhere in the faq video they mentioned that one of the books was "a couple of xenos", so I assume the various Eldars are in their own book. Or maybe it's just Orks and Nids in one book, as "Destruction." Either way we get some fun rules to pursue while building our waaaaghs.

I wonder if this edition will have formations

 thenewgozoku wrote:
I wonder if this edition will have formations

yes, it will