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Hi there, dakka people.

I am trying to build a power blob IG list (because infantry is the prettiest thing in this game), but it seems that my army stands only a little chance against warhammer players around. So I have a question. Is it possible to build a competitive (or semi-competitive) power blob list for about 1000 and/or 1500 points? What units would you use? What support for power blobs is best(tanks/artilery)? Do you know about army list, which would be competitive enough to win from time to time? The core of my army should be 2x 30-man blobs (PWs, Meltaguns, commissars). But what upgrades would be viable for CCS or PCS?

Thank you for your suggestions.

I apologize for not having enough familiarity with the IG Codex, and again for making a "Well, duh!" statement, but here it is:

Make sure you can deal with armor units, which will most likely mean Lascannons, for you.

I run orks. PK's deal with marines and vehicles nicely, so my troops handle both.

Again, I'm not sure how it works in the IG Codex, but I would take large units with lascannon heavy weapon teams. As an IG blob, against other infantry, you're relying on a massive lasgun bombardment, and banking on some missed armor rolls. I'd try all out infantry, and see if I could make it work.

Gunline works, is it better then mech NO. but it works. Ill start by saying this isn’t my forte as I rairly run this type of list but here I go.

Yes # 1 is to be able to open up those cans, you have 2 options AC heavy blobs do in transports well. And min squads of DS storm troopers with melta will fix any heavy armor threats. Las work but there just so darn expinsive and a poor choice on AV 14. Man up your platoons to 30 at least and drop in a commissar load them out with a hand full of power weapons and a single melta gun (to prevent tank shocks). The idea is to shoot down what you can, what you cant shoot you kill slowly in melee, what you cant kill in melee you tar pit down the entire game. Your PCS can work well as your anti horde, loaded out with flamers.

I don’t feel you can run exclusively “foot”. I would drop in a few manticores, pehapts a hydra squad. Vendettas are always a good choice in every list. But that’s just my take on it. There are a few on this board that can help you a bit more then me. Good luck to you buddy

My suggestion for a 30 man power blob build...

Offensive...
This blob is moving forward to activily engage other units in melee combat.

Defensive...
This blob is protecting artillery by 'bubble wrapping' it to prevent units from assaulting the heavys. You place the unit withing 2" and form a half circle around the arty from table edge to table edge. The only real difference is that defensive blobs have heavy weapons and possible plasma since they are static... you do not move them.

Equipment and upgrades...

1x Commissar. He does everything you need him to do, as adding in 2 more is 70pts and you need all the points you can get.

Power weapon on everyone who can use one.

Fill every special weapon slot. Melta gun on offensive blobs are a must, plasma or melta on defensive. Melta on defense protects from DSing walkers and outflanking vehicles.

Melta bombs on every sergeant. Read the rules for bombs. Remember you get one attact, even if you normally have more than one. Remember you only hit Walkers on a 6. Melta bombs are a last resort and a defensive weapon incase a walker attacks /you/. Your better off shooting it with melta guns.

ACs or Lascannons are the only IG heavy weapons of choice. The AC gives you two str 7 shots, meaning even with BS 3, you have a 50% chance to hit with at least one shot every round. Best used on AV 12 or less vehicles. Lascannons have the highest strength and are best used on AV 12+ vehicles. Only put heavy weapons in defensive blobs or in heavy weapon squads (HWS). Remember that HWSs are scoring units.

PCSs, in my opinion have only one load-out... flamers. I honestly can see a heavy flamer load-out if you have points, but it is 20pts for 4x flamers and 20pts for a single heavy. Flamers do not care about the PCS's BS 3. PCS's are also scoring units, so they are best used in attacking and clearing out enemy objectives held by weak troops (Scouts, Rangers, Gretchen, ect). They also work great for following behind the blob and issuing 'Move!x3' on it to keep it moving when you run, and then camping an objective the blob cleared out.

HWSs are your long range fire power of choice in a blob list, since your doing Platoons anyways. Again, ACs and Lascannons are you bet choices.

HQs are the real thing that make blobs go. Straken is popular, so is Al'Rahim (as a PCS upgrade). Creed (and/or Kell) is also huge for blobs, due to 4 orders at 24" range. Creed and a Lord Commissar can give your HWSs twin linked with 'Bring it Down!' at Ld 10 and help keep them from running with the Lord's Aura of Discipline. I am also a big fan of giving the CCS camo cloaks, two plasma or meltas and a Lascannon and keeping it static.

Remember that sometimes 30 guys is to big and unwieldly on the field. I wouldn't go bigger, but having 3 20 man blobs might be more effective and give you more flexibility.

Quick 1500 list I sometimes play when I go with blob guard.

HQ
CCS - 3 flamer, 1 heavy flamer, MOO (yes, he has proven to be quite useful, especially against horde). Commander with power weapon.
Lord Commisar with power weapon and carapace armor.

Elites
2x 4 Ogryns, 1 Bone 'Ead. Toughness 5, 3 wounds...what more needs to be said? Oh, and cover saves for the blob behind them.

Troops
2x Infantry Platoons
PCS - 2 flamer, 2 melta. Officer and commisar with power weapon.
Infantry squads - melta. Sgt. with power weapon and melta bomb

Fast Attack
2x Vendettas

Heavy Support
Hydra. Thing comes in handy...a lot.

As stated, you need to be VERY offensive when running blobs, you can't let your opponent set the tempo of the battle. Get in there, get dirty, and don't be afraid to get it on ya. Guardsmen may only be S3, but on the charge you're going to be giving your opponent a dizzying number of attacks. If you're out of assault range, FRFSRF comes in handy as well, use it.

Thank you all very much! You are really helpful . I see what you have in mind (well, concerning blobs at least). I have some more questions:

AC HWTs. Is it better to have AC HWT or run a Hydra? 3xAC HWT cost the same as Hydra and have the same attack power(3xAC vs 2xtwin-linked AC), but can not move and shoot. In addition, Hydra has "auto-targeting system", which makes it better agains fast skimmers (eldars). In addition, Hydra has heavy bolter, which is handy when shooting infantry. HWT, on the other hand, is a scoring unit. Hydra can survive longer I think (not sure about that).

LC HWTs. Is it better to have LC HWT or just go for Vendettas? 105 points vs 130 points speaks for HWTs. But Vendetta has better firepower due to twin-linked, can transport, is fast skimmer (it can move and shoot very good), and with armor 12/12/10 it can probably survive more shots (or not, probably depends on situation, I do not have enough experience to know this for sure)

What do you think is better in the 1000 or 1500 points army? Both HWTs and their Mech equivalents have some pros and cons. What is your opinion?


Blast/Tepmplates/Monstrozities. How can blob army survive against flamers, heavy flamers, large blasts? What is the best option for defending against Monstrous Creatures (such as Daemon Prince with lash and wings) which can assault your blob and kill it? (which is efficient for Monsters, because blob is much greater in cost then for example that Daemon Prince)

Command. What will you do if your opponent just focus fire on your CCS and PCS? They only have 5 models each, so it is very easy to kill them, even when in cover and lying on the groud...is it efficient to buy them any weapons upgrades at all, when they are so easy to kill?

Please, continue with your suggestions.

Keep your command squads in the blobs, don't leave them out to become targets. As for template weapons, you can have up to two inches between mini's. Use it.

The Hydra is better than the HWT as it's autocannons can shoot a lot further then regular autocannons. The down side is fast armies like Dark Eldar will target them first, at least when I play them. Sure HWT are scoring but I would rather get another round of shooting with them as they are so fragile I wouldn't bother holding an objective with them.

The vendetta is an awesome value for what it does, but is also a large high value target to any enemy while I had 2 lascannon squads blasting away all day with "bring it down".

I would probably go with HWTs in the 1000 point game while a vendetta in the 1500 point game. A valk and vet squad would be about a 4th of your army at 1000 points.

I always take Al'reham with my blobs. Keeps them off the board while the enemy gets close, and his orders are great for blobs. Come on the board 6" use "like the wind" where you fire assualt weapons and move another D6" then assualt 6" more. He also as an instant death power sword which is great against MCs (not most deamons sadly). Flamers will tear you apart, use the rest of your army to take out things that can do damage to your blobs before they get there. Large blasts will hurt but if you move from cover to cover it won't be too bad. You're blob will beat most MCs by shear volume he gets what 4-5 attacks to your 39 some (not counting charge)

Command. Most people won't focus fire on your CCS and PCS for exactly that reason. The PCS I keep behind the blobs for cover use as counter charge, The CCS stays behind a building or ruin giving orders so it's impossible to target unless right up in my lines.

My blobs are similar to BlkTom's.
Commissar with power sword
2 infantry squads with power swords
2 meltas

I keep them cheap. But I also think if you take a platoon you should always get 2 special weapon squads too. 2 with 3 flamers or if you have points meltas or plasma.

Honestly I had 2 SWS with 3 flamers each take on a full unit of Khorne berserkers and champion by them selves....and win.

I have to disagree with almost everyone here on support units for blobs. Lets take it from the beginning, what are the strengths of the blob?
1.) Durability
2.) Close Range Firepower
3.) The ability to protect tanks from assault and melta guns.

If your blobs are durable (arguably the most durable unit in the game point for point), you want your support units to be durable, otherwise your opponent just kills the support units first. Their ability to protect tanks from assault and melta attack is based on both their footprint and their close range firepower. This leaves your enemy using autocannons, missile launchers, lascannons, assault/psycannons, and the occasional lance weapon as the primary tank killing weapon. Most of these do a horrible job against armor 14, and the ones that don't (psycannons, lances) have a combination of short range or vulnerable firing platforms. This means that Leman Russes are the unit of choice to support blobs. All those weapons that tear up light armor hordes are pretty inefficient against the might Russ. The blobs, in turn, keep the tank safe from its biggest weaknesses, assault and melta. Any Chimera hulls or heavy weapon squads are just going to attract heavy weapons fire that will bring them a quick end. If you bring blobs and Russes, you have no easy kills in your army. It will keep fighting all game long.

I do agree that stormtroopers are a pretty good support unit also. They're suicide in any army, but it gives a nice ability to deliver melta guns where needed.

Biophysical wrote:I have to disagree with almost everyone here on support units for blobs. Lets take it from the beginning, what are the strengths of the blob?

I disagree
In general, yes, blobs are great for protecting vehicles, and vehicles protect the blobs from things that can hurt them.

However all infantry guard is a perfectly viable army, it takes practice doing spiderweb movement and knowng what to charge and what to shoot and the army is tyranid-y in that it feeds on itself for power. It also heavily relies on cover.

The staples of the list are

1. Either creed or straken, usually straken, or priests this makes your blobs totally devistating on the charge, with one of these and a hidden priest in the back lines, you should do horrific casualties on the charge. I avoid meltas on the big squads and put them on the command squads since they won't see close combat. If I take creed I'll go sniperrifles with his squad since there's never really a reason to move him and pinning is nice.
2. No vehicles, yes hydras are better, but they will eat 100% of your opponents anti tank and die, by running all infantry every gun they take bigger than a bolter is wasted
3. Rather than dedicated long range teams, I run autocannons in my blobs and for the first turn or two pick at the enemy, popping transports and doing some damage before moving in for the assaults, in assault the heavy weapon teams in the front let many more men make combat which increases effectiveness.
4. Ogryns I use as a tough shooting unit they arent bad if part of a multi assault so the can't be swept, I prefer rough riders to suicide and soften up any unit I dont want to deal with.
5. al'harim can help if you have too many infantry for your deployment zone, I'll fill his platoon with melta and SWS 's if I have the points, his order basically gives fleet /and allows the unit to shoot assault guns as well, it is very nice.
6. psyker battle squads are awesome, pretty much period.

Grundz, I agree completely, and I wasn't clear. If you're going to use support vehicles, you should use Leman Russes, but an all infantry build retains the strengths of the list in a way that Chimera hulls do not.

I think you are correct on all points, with a possible exception of Ogryns. I think these guys might give AT weapons something to shoot at in an all infantry list. They are tough enough, however, that they can still soak quite a bit of shots, so they might have a place.

Lothar wrote:Thank you all very much! You are really helpful . I see what you have in mind (well, concerning blobs at least). I have some more questions:

Quick note... a HWT is a heavy weapon team, your questions seem to be talking about HWSs (Heavy weapon squad(s)). I am going to answer this as if you were asking about HWSs and not HWTs. There is a difference.

AC HWTs. Is it better to have AC HWT or run a Hydra? 3xAC HWT cost the same as Hydra and have the same attack power(3xAC vs 2xtwin-linked AC), but can not move and shoot. In addition, Hydra has "auto-targeting system", which makes it better agains fast skimmers (eldars). In addition, Hydra has heavy bolter, which is handy when shooting infantry. HWT, on the other hand, is a scoring unit. Hydra can survive longer I think (not sure about that).

Hydra is better against skimmers only if the opponent goes flat out with them. This unit is /really/ effective against mech eldar and their holo-fields. Other than that it is a horse apiece. Yeah, 2 twin linked ACs vs 3 ACs, but the HWS can be given 'Bring it Down!' and then also be twin linked. The heavy bolter is a non-factor. A HWS in cover with a Lord Commissar within 6" is more survivable than a Hydra.

LC HWTs. Is it better to have LC HWT or just go for Vendettas? 105 points vs 130 points speaks for HWTs. But Vendetta has better firepower due to twin-linked, can transport, is fast skimmer (it can move and shoot very good), and with armor 12/12/10 it can probably survive more shots (or not, probably depends on situation, I do not have enough experience to know this for sure)

Point for point, the LC HWS is cheaper and more survivable (same as I mentioned with AC HWSs). But they are used differently, even though their targets are the same. You can Outflank Vendettas and carry troops in them to make them scoring (a great location/transport for your Flamer equiped PCSs). Vendettas are naturally TLed, LC HWSs need 'BiD!' to be TLed. As with the Hydra, it is a horse apiece. If your /just/ using it as a gun platform and not using it to it's full potential, then your better off with a static LC HWS in cover, hopefully within 6" of a Lord Commissar.

What do you think is better in the 1000 or 1500 points army? Both HWTs and their Mech equivalents have some pros and cons. What is your opinion?

Trick question... I listed my opinion above. It really comes down to how you use them and your play style. You can have both and have them be effective in your army. If you have the money, get both, you will not regret it and will eventually find a balance when you gain more experience with your army. The real thing is, you almost have to run vehicles in pairs (and not in squadrens). This means you have a better chance of doing what you want to do with them and your able to fire on more targets. You have one Vendetta out there or one Hydra... you just validated every long range AT weapon your opponet has by giving them a target. And every one /will/ fire on that one vehicle every turn. You also have to play that your going 2nd, so you need to assume your vehicles might not even get a shot off. If you have two Hydras and two Vendettas, you have a much better chance of them living long enough to do some damage. If you use them, have at least two of each.

Blast/Tepmplates/Monstrozities. How can blob army survive against flamers, heavy flamers, large blasts? What is the best option for defending against Monstrous Creatures (such as Daemon Prince with lash and wings) which can assault your blob and kill it? (which is efficient for Monsters, because blob is much greater in cost then for example that Daemon Prince)

As for blast markers and templates, you just survive them with effectivily losing las gun troopers due to the current rules of allocating wounds to a unit. Same thing Orks, Nids, and other hoard armys work, because Blob IG is effectivily a hoard army. As for MCs, you have 20-30 guys and power swords. Since your guys with power swords are not ICs, they can not be targeted. This is where Grundz is sadily mistaken, as Priests are considered ICs and thus can be targeted if they are in CC, and as a IC they have to follow the rules concerning ICs and CC. Priests are also expensive, though they have their uses. The worse MC that can charge you is a Eldar Wraithlord, at T 8. You can not hurt it, but it only has two attacks a turn. You effectivily have it bogged down in CC for the rest of the game. Anything with T 6 (or less) you can effect with your power swords, and with a 20 man blob you have 6 attacks a turn, giving you roughly a 50% chance to inflict a wound a turn on that T 6 MC. Orders are your friend, as 'Bring it Down!' gives all your weapons TLed. If you run into a MC, make sure your over 12" away (or whatever their base move is plus charge) and make sure they don't have fleet. Then you shoot the hell out of them and kill them that way, avoiding CC with them. You do not charge or get into combat with MCs, you shoot them. Blobs are troop killers, not MC/vehicle/walker killers.

Command. What will you do if your opponent just focus fire on your CCS and PCS? They only have 5 models each, so it is very easy to kill them, even when in cover and lying on the groud...is it efficient to buy them any weapons upgrades at all, when they are so easy to kill?

This is why I use Camo Cloaks on my CCS. Cover is better than Armor, and if you have the points, give them armor as well, but 20pts are 4 melta guns and thus can be better spent elsewhere. no one should get close enough to burn your CCS out, and if they do, you have failed yourself tactically. You put it in a Chimera and your a single shot away from taking a wound to every member of your squad when the damn thing blows up. Chimeras protect you from small arms fire, but against bigger weapons it actually places you more at risk. You do not get in CC with your Command Squads, period. Even with Straken it is a risk. MoOs are dangerous due to the chance your going to shell your own units, since your goal is to get your blobs in CC, and can only be used in static units. I would rather spend that 30pts elsewhere. PCS are only useful for three things... scoring, flamers, and 'Move, move, move!'. If they die, they die. Do not waste them, but know their role in the battle and use them for that role. Once the Blob no longer needs to run, you move off and look to either camp an objective the blob cleared or to burn out weak scoring enemy units camping an objective. In straight kill point games, use them to protect the flanks of your blob from outflankers. Your CCS (yes, you need at least one) makes your HWSs deadly, thus it needs to be in cover and within order range of your HWSs, if any. If your running Straken, you run /behind/ your blobs, taking body guards to give your CCS 7+ members to help cut down on morale checks. Again, all you care about is his aura. Remember when you use Al'Rahim, his entire Platoon outflanks and comes in together as a single reserve roll, PCS, SWS, HWS, PIS, ect... everything, one roll, one side. I have made fun lists with Creed and Al'Rahim and three Platoons, having two outflanking blobs with Creed's Tactical Genius.

Ogryns are fine for what they do, and there are not a ton of Str 10 weapons out there that can insta-kill them. The problem with Ogryns are the lack of power weapons. You /really/ want to put a Priest in this squad, but you can't. Best solution I have found is putting Yarrick in the squad, but he is incredibly expensive. I am dubious of Crash's legality of hiding squads inside other squads due to the movement rules, but I will not debate them here.

Another important thing with blobs is that it is a heavy Order list. You want to read the Order section several times and use it extensivily. This is why I highly suggest Creed, Kell, and a Lord Commissar.

Remember that just because your running blobs, it doesn't mean you can't use Vets. Your vets are probably better off being static with Sentries providing covering fire (using that BS 4) with plasma guns and a HWT. I have used Harker in this role to make a 'forward fire base' of a Vet squad with two heavy weapons and plasmas in larger point games. He does an excellent job of drawing fire, and if you give him a second Heavy Bolter or a AC, his unit can really tear up a single unit at 18" to 24" away. The frosting on that cake is Demolitions giving them all melta bombs and a Demo charge... effectivily 70pts worth of equipment for 30pts. But it /is/ frosting, and they are probably still going to die, but the goal is to have them live long enough to inflict their damage and potentially kill what they are worth. If your opponent is spending 2-3 turns shooting at Harker, those are turns he is not shooting at your blobs. But if you place Harker to close where your now validating his small arms with several units that otherwise wouldn't have a target just to use your plasmas, you might be making a mistake tactically.