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When I started playing with my friends we thought we were getting the hang of the game only to go to our FLGS to find out that we were playing alot of rules incorrectly. And we have since been seperated by them EASing from the USMC. We have all now been to different FLGS and found that the first one we went to were playing many rules incorrectly. Or skipping entire roles (morale checks being the most prominent).

I often also find myself debating with people about simple rules but in hopes to be able to play more games I usually concede so that I do not have to sit and wait for them to look through their BRB to try and solve the debate (as the people at my FLGS will always go to the BRB instead of the LRB (i dont know if this is actually an acronym but I use it for the Mini Rule book that comes with Black Reach)

Therefore I made a document up that clarifies some simple rules, that I remember my friends and I messing up alot, with ref. to the page number in the LRB. it is still in draft form as I would like anyone else to comment on this thread for me to add something, and because in honesty after 8 hours of scouring a rule book needless to say I am bored. Keep in mind I am trying to describe each scenario with as little words as possible and yet also make it understandable to someone who has watched or played a few games, but is not a pro.

While going through my LRB on AAOOD duty I have actually found a few things that the people at my FLGS have been doing incorrectly, and it has also led me to finding a question. which is highlighted in the document.

Please leave any answers to my question, or anything that you think should be added in the comments below.

(my idea is that I can have copies of this at my FLGS for new players and i choose to use my LRB as ref. for several reasons, 1 its usually what I carry around, 2 its usually what beginners have, and 3 my FLGS has a copy open at the store)

I downloaded the sheets, will take a look later.
One thing, the rule you highlighted is wrong, you take a morale test if you lose 25% of a unit's models in any phase (except close combat).

One other note is that the page numbers in the AoBR rule book (the mini one) and the full sized rule book are the same.

The mini rule book is just missing the fluff section.

Ahh I did not know this, I dont actually own a BRB, and i always refuse to even pick that heavy thing up...... and i realize that it is in any phase, however i changed this to "the shooting phase" because to my knowlege of games i have played the only other phase you can loose models is the assault phase CC which it does not include due to morale checks being caused by losing.

If I am wrong please let me know as I stated I already know the people i have been playing with arent playing 100% correctly.

Vladamyr wrote:Ahh I did not know this, I dont actually own a BRB, and i always refuse to even pick that heavy thing up...... and i realize that it is in any phase, however i changed this to "the shooting phase" because to my knowlege of games i have played the only other phase you can loose models is the assault phase CC which it does not include due to morale checks being caused by losing.

If I am wrong please let me know as I stated I already know the people i have been playing with arent playing 100% correctly.

You can lose models in the movement phase due to failing enough dangerous terrain tests (or having very few models and failing one). This will trigger a morale test if the conditions are met.

3d6 = Roll a d6 and multiply the score by 3...

Ok actually I did know that, it just slipped my mind. I will change that right now.

However this still doesnt answer my questions, is it 25% of models from the beggining of that phase, beggining of that turn, or beggining of the game?

AvatarForm wrote:3d6 = Roll a d6 and multiply the score by 3...

Is this a mistake in the linked guide? (which I haven;t read) Because 3D6 mean roll three 6 sided die and add them together.


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Vladamyr wrote:Ok actually I did know that, it just slipped my mind. I will change that right now.

However this still doesnt answer my questions, is it 25% of models from the beggining of that phase, beggining of that turn, or beggining of the game?

Losing 25% of the models that were in the unit at the beginning of the phase.


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But not in close combat. That has it's own rules for morale checks.

kmdl1066 wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:3d6 = Roll a d6 and multiply the score by 3...

Is this a mistake in the linked guide? (which I haven;t read) Because 3D6 mean roll three 6 sided die and add them together.


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Vladamyr wrote:Ok actually I did know that, it just slipped my mind. I will change that right now.

However this still doesnt answer my questions, is it 25% of models from the beggining of that phase, beggining of that turn, or beggining of the game?

Losing 25% of the models that were in the unit at the beginning of the phase.

that is not in the guide, however yes 3D6 is 3xD6 added together, however D3 is a D6/2 and rounded up or easier 12=1 34=2 56=3 ......which i have never ran into this does this actually happen?


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thanks i fixed that regarding the 25% of that phase.

Vladamyr wrote:...however yes 3D6 is 3xD6 added together, however D3 is a D6/2 and rounded up or easier 12=1 34=2 56=3 ......which i have never ran into this does this actually happen?

D3 comes up when you are shooting a rending weapon at a vehicle.

Say you are shooting an assault cannon and trying to kill a predator. The Assault cannon (Base Strength 6, with a D6 armor pen roll and rending) rolls a 6 for its armor penetration roll, the armor penetration roll is now a 12(6 for the str 6 for the roll.) this however is not quite enough to glance or penetrate the predators front armor of 13, but the assault cannon has rending so since you rolled a 6 on the initial armor penetration roll, you get to roll a D3 and add it to your armor penetration score.

The morale thing is: 25% casualties from the beginning of a phase lost in that phase.

If your unit is engaged in CC the 25% casualties rule does not apply.

Units of Models with Multiple Wounds needs a major overhaul:

Units of Models with Multiple Wounds (LRB pg 25): If a unit has models that have multiple wounds then whole models must be removed whenever possible from like wound-groups. Should the entire unit be comprised of identical models than each group of unsaved wounds must first start being applied to previously wounded models and then be applied to a single unwounded model until it dies and so on until there are no more unsaved wounds to apply. A unit of disparate multiple wound models must have a wounding hit allocated to each model before any additional wounding hits may be allocated; Each model will only have its own wounding hits applied to it.


Attack modifiers should have an addendum of: (See page 42 of the BRB) after the Multiple CCW bit, it is easier to have the Page refference then to completely re-state the rules in entirety.


Attacking Vehicles should include:
Currently Immobilized or Stationary Vehicle: Auto Hit
As if the vehicle becomes immobilized at a higher Initiative step and is attacked again at a lower step the latter attacks auto hit.


Vehicle Locked in CC (LRB pg 63): Can still shoot during its shooting phase. But cannot move, not even with Tank Shot.

This is just Flat Wrong, vehicles cannot get locked in CC; and can move away just fine



You forgot that glance is a -2 to the damage roll.

kmdl1066 wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:3d6 = Roll a d6 and multiply the score by 3...

Is this a mistake in the linked guide? (which I haven;t read) Because 3D6 mean roll three 6 sided die and add them together.

No, it is a misunderstanding of the rules which I have encountered.

my bad on that last part, I misread the first sentence of Successive Turns....i thought this was wierd again, forgive me i was looking at the rulebook for over 8 hours looking for confusing things.........

Deff Rollas and vehicles exploding due to ramming can also cause 25% checks during movement.

One very common newbie idea is that the Instant Death rule (pg 26) somehow kills models without rolling to wound, and with no saves allowed. It does actually only kick in after you've been wounded, tried any saves allowed and still have an unsaved wound left.

Another common question, weekly on these boards far as I can tell, is what actually denies you Feel No Pain (pg75). No, you don't lose it just because you can't use an armor save against that particular wound. It has to be AP1, AP2, a wound that never allows armor saves or causes Instant Death.

And one from vehicles which is also very common - passengers shooting from Opentopped/Fast transports. Pg 66, Fire Points tells us they may only shoot if the vehicle moves at Combat Speed or less and nothing in the vehicle type rules later countermand that limitation. No, Fast (pg 70) doesn't help - their speed bands are the same but they have an extra one called Flat Out if they move over 12''. No, passengers aren't vehicle weapons. If they were the same unit your Fast vehicle could never move faster than 6'', the speed of the slowest model...

Units of Models with Multiple Wounds (LRB pg 25): If a unit has models that have multiple wounds then each model must have a wound before any model may take a second.

I'm unsure whether this is referring to wound allocation or removing casualties, in either case it would not be correct. Models with multiple Wound are not allocated wounds in any different way than models with only a single wound. For removing casualties, you have to kill a model before any other may take its first wound.


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Vehicle: Weapon Destroyed (LRB pg 61): The weapon is chosen by the attacker.

Actually, it's chosen by your opponent. Important if you destroy your own weapon by scattering or similar.

Vehicle Locked in CC (LRB pg 63): Can still shoot during its shooting phase. But cannot move, not even with Tank Shot.

This is very wrong. Non-Walker vehicles can never be locked in combat, and thus can move and tank shock normaly.

Units are not immune to the 25% casualty rule during the assault phase. Units locked in CC get to ignore the 25% casualty rule, and units don't count casualties from close combat towards the 25%.

But, there are other ways models could take 25% casualties during the assault phase, without the unit being in CC. For example: If a nearby vehicle is destroyed in an assault, and the explosion kills 25% of the unit.

Grakmar wrote:But, there are other ways models could take 25% casualties during the assault phase, without the unit being in CC. For example: If a nearby vehicle is destroyed in an assault, and the explosion kills 25% of the unit.

Or as my opponent did on Wednesday - charged a transport through Dangerous Terrain where one of the four men managed to die. They took their swings at the vehicle, then failed morale and started falling back.

Also the DE reavers can inflict wounds in the movement phase and can thus cause a morale check. Here are some things in addition to what other people have already said that I noticed, and you might want to add/fix.
Also double 1s automatically pass a leadership or morale check.
Fall back for jump infantry or bikes is 3d6.
ID on multiple wound models must be allocated to an unwounded model if all models are the same.
Attack modifiers are based on single handed weapons (2 pistols, 2 swords, pisotl and sword) not multiple CC weapons unless otherwise stated ie powerfists, TH, and LC.
Only vehicles that can be locked are walkers and they cannot shoot.

Akroma06 wrote:Also double 1s automatically pass a leadership or morale check.

Double 1s automatically pass a morale check, but they do NOT automatically pass other leadership checks.

Akroma06 wrote:ID on multiple wound models must be allocated to an unwounded model if all models are the same.

Even if some of the models are different, the ID wound must be allocated to an unwounded model among that wound group.

Grakmar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:Also double 1s automatically pass a leadership or morale check.

Double 1s automatically pass a morale check, but they do NOT automatically pass other leadership checks.

Where does it say this? I have never ever seen a leadership under 2...so 1+1 would pass.

Grakmar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:ID on multiple wound models must be allocated to an unwounded model if all models are the same.

Even if some of the models are different, the ID wound must be allocated to an unwounded model among that wound group.

No they don't...ork nob stuff here...I have a wound on a plain nob I can put an ID hit here if all other nobs are different from him and each other.

Where does it say this? I have never ever seen a leadership under 2...so 1+1 would pass.

There's a difference between passing, and passing automatically. It was probably implemented in case there became ways later into the edition of creating a scenario where a unit became Ld1 and was required to take a leadership test on it.

A 1+1 might pass the majority (if not all) of leadership checks currently, but it won't do so automatically unless it's a morale check.

Akroma06 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:Also double 1s automatically pass a leadership or morale check.

Double 1s automatically pass a morale check, but they do NOT automatically pass other leadership checks.

Where does it say this? I have never ever seen a leadership under 2...so 1+1 would pass.

p.43 of BGB, under INSANE HEROISM!, the only thing that double 1s auto-succeed at is a moral check. Other leadership checks do not get this rule. It is VERY rare that a unit's leadership is below 2, but with modifiers, it does sometime happen. (Especially if a PBS is around to drop them to 2 before modifiers.)

Akroma06 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:ID on multiple wound models must be allocated to an unwounded model if all models are the same.

Even if some of the models are different, the ID wound must be allocated to an unwounded model among that wound group.

No they don't...ork nob stuff here...I have a wound on a plain nob I can put an ID hit here if all other nobs are different from him and each other.

If everyone is different than each other, than you can put the ID wound on an already wounded model. But, if you have multiple wound groups, each with more than 1 model in it, then inside that wound group, the ID wound goes to an unwounded model.

Example:
You have 5 Nobz in a unit. 1 has PK and is unwounded. 1 has PK and has 1 wound. 1 has Bosspole and is unwounded. 2 have a Big Shoota and have 1 wound each.
The squad takes an ID wound.
You can put it on the Bosspole Nob, and he dies. You can put it on either Big Shoota Nob, and either one dies (your choice). But, if you put it on either PK Nob, the unwounded one has to die.

The PBS lowers it to 2 pg 47 IG codex, but after rereading the BRB yes it can go below 2, but the only time I can think of that would be with a PBS and an ordanance weapon. So I will concede this point to you.

As to the other one. I think we are arguing the same point with different words, but I agree with you example completely.

Akroma06 wrote:The PBS lowers it to 2 pg 47 IG codex, but after rereading the BRB yes it can go below 2, but the only time I can think of that would be with a PBS and an ordanance weapon. So I will concede this point to you.

Yeah, it's super rare. The PBS + Ordnance example is the only one I know of.

Akroma06 wrote:As to the other one. I think we are arguing the same point with different words, but I agree with you example completely.

Agreed! I thought we may be just saying the same thing with different words.

only spore mines have ld 1,because they dont take morale tests,have no pyschic tests,immune to IB,explode if wounded or moves into base to base/hull contact,so weapons that cause ld tests dont work on them.and they can't be reduced to ld0,as per rules for characteristics.

Actually hating to start another one but it is to below zero as the DE can do it either in planetstrike games or with torment grenade launchers, but as you said it is pointless.

Yes it would be pointless because all weapons wound them on a 2+ anyway and as 1s always fail,no automatic wounds,it would be completly pointless.

Vladamyr wrote:Ahh I did not know this, I dont actually own a BRB, and i always refuse to even pick that heavy thing up...... and i realize that it is in any phase, however i changed this to "the shooting phase" because to my knowlege of games i have played the only other phase you can loose models is the assault phase CC which it does not include due to morale checks being caused by losing.

If I am wrong please let me know as I stated I already know the people i have been playing with arent playing 100% correctly.

It's possible to lose models on your movement, shooting or assault phases and in your opponent's movement and shooting phases. (I can't think of anything that would make you take casualties (outside of CC) in your opponent's assault phase but there probably is something).

Also, you can take morale checks in the assault phase if you take enough casualties outside of close combat (e.g. dangerous terrain checks).

This is the problem with trying to summarize the rules - it's not possible to do so without leaving stuff out and it's far too easy to accidentally change the rules.

Exploding vehicles, as ever

Tyranids with Toxic Miasma.End the turn in CC,every modal in Base Contact must pass a toughness test or suffer a wound,saves allowed.Not part of close combat.