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As a quick background to this question, I run Space Wolves, and the big "schtick" of my army is that I run four completely decked-out Wolf Lords on Thunderwolf mounts as a single squad (With different weapons so as to differentiate them). I've been doing so for months without issue. But today, just before the weekly league game, it was pointed out that according to the rules for a Thunderwolf Mount, I cannot attach them to each other, as they themselves are not Thunderwolf Cavalry. I was able to quickly change my list to include a handful of Fenrisian Wolves to attach all four to, but now that I've got time before the next game, I pose the question to you.

Can I attach four Thunderwolf Mount Wolf Lords to each other to form a super-squad (as I've been doing for all this time) or do I need an intermediary Fenrisian/Thunderwolf Cavalry squad to keep them together? And on a similar note, the same person mentioned that if the Fenrisians all die, the Wolves will stay attached to each other (though this I'm extremely dubious of). I didn't see anything in the FAQ, but I have seen mentions of people attaching Wolf Lords to Iron Priests on the Thunderwolf Mount.

I'd appreciate the help. The whole needing an intermediary unit doesn't exactly destroy my list as written, but it does mean I have to be a lot more careful with my Wolf Star from now on.

The TW mount does say "may only join Fenrisian Wolves or TW Cavalry" and both of those options are units, not unit types. The SW FAQ doesn't comment on this but it does refer to people with TW mounts as "TW Cavalry", even if there is no such unit type. I do think the intent here is that the four ICs should be able to form a unit together, without any extras, but their own rules don't technically allow it.

Not sure about TW cavalry but there is a rule that does not let single model units be joined by IC's. since all IC's are single models so they can't join each other.

Lennysfury wrote:Not sure about TW cavalry but there is a rule that does not let single model units be joined by IC's. since all IC's are single models so they can't join each other.

This is wrong, Lennysfury.

P48 "They can join other independent characters though, to form a powerful multi-character unit!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@OP: It is in the Rulebook. You can certainly attach 4 Wolf Lords together with their Fenrisian Wolf wargear to make a super unit.

P48 i thought....this is from memory however.

unlike 4th ed,the 5th ed rules for IC allow them to join each other as powerful,multicharacter unit


my friend told me of an apoc game he played,where he took vanilla marnes,with 1 of every special in every MEQ codex allied,and all the IC in C:SM joining them into a conclave of the legions squad(his name for it),making a squad of
10 paladins
calgar
sicarius
tioguirius
cassius
kantor
lysnader
shrike
vulkan
khan on bike
chapter mastersX5 for orb bombarding
6 captains
9 libbies(mix of codexes)
9 chaplains(codex mixture,including a BA reclusiarch)
master of the forge
logan
blackmane
canis wolfborn
dante
tycho
astorath
the DA man who can have a land speeder or bike,on bike
emperor's champion
helbregt
grimarus
GKGM
GK stern
GK libby
GK crowe
GK Draigo
others i don't remember

THIS IS A LEGAL UNIT



sidenote:ye, he,in his infinate sadness, has every MEQ charcter out there.

nosferatu1001 wrote:P48 i thought....this is from memory however.

You're right. I fixed it. Typo.

The FAQ regarding rending and ccw weapons pretty much places them all in the category of being TWC/TWM thus allowing them to be joined. I use to run a dual thunderlord list prior to the FAQ and stopped because the RAW was explicit about them not joining. I made adjustments and never went back even after the FAQ.

I stand corrected. Thanks guys.

I seem to be getting some mixed messages here. People quoting the Rulebook saying I can, and one person saying that strictly by RAW, I can't.

Yes, the rulebook says that I can attach 4 ICs to each other, but that's not the issue. The issue is that in the Space Wolves Codex, under the rules for the Thunderwolf Mount say "However, he may only join Thunderwolf Cavalry or Fenrisian Wolves units - anything else is asking for trouble!" Strictly speaking, a Wolf Lord unit (even mounted on a Thunderwolf) is not a Thunderwolf Cavalry unit, which is a separate unit in the codex.

Do the other similarly-mounted Wolf Lords count towards being Thunderwolf Cavalry, or do I need that intermediary unit of Fenrisian Wolves to make sure they attach into a single unit? I saw the entry in the FAQ about rending, but I must not have read it properly, because it didn't look like it said anything about all Thunderwolf Mounted units counting as the Cavalry unit for purposes of ICs attaching.

The earlier quote that was referred to has bearing here as well. From the FAQ:
Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special close
combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer) still have rending
attacks? (p34)
A. No. The description of the Thunderwolf mount on page
62 says that it ʻ… has the Rending special rule in close
combat with any attack that does not use a special close
combat weaponʼ. This applies to Thunderwolf Cavalry as
well (and Canis Wolfborn, for that matter).

This seems to indicate that TWM = TWC for the purposes of the rules.

pretre wrote:The earlier quote that was referred to has bearing here as well. From the FAQ:
Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special close
combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer) still have rending
attacks? (p34)
A. No. The description of the Thunderwolf mount on page
62 says that it ʻ… has the Rending special rule in close
combat with any attack that does not use a special close
combat weaponʼ. This applies to Thunderwolf Cavalry as
well (and Canis Wolfborn, for that matter).

This seems to indicate that TWM = TWC for the purposes of the rules.

This is what I was referring to in my post.

While it is not addressing the difference between TWM/TWC/Canis, it is putting them all in the same boat of being thunderwolves and following the rules for thunderwolf mount despite their naming differences.

Deadshot wrote:unlike 4th ed,the 5th ed rules for IC allow them to join each other as powerful,multicharacter unit


my friend told me of an apoc game he played,where he took vanilla marnes,with 1 of every special in every MEQ codex allied,and all the IC in C:SM joining them into a conclave of the legions squad(his name for it),making a squad of
10 paladins
calgar
sicarius
tioguirius
cassius
kantor
lysnader
shrike
vulkan
khan on bike
chapter mastersX5 for orb bombarding
6 captains
9 libbies(mix of codexes)
9 chaplains(codex mixture,including a BA reclusiarch)
master of the forge
logan
blackmane
canis wolfborn
dante
tycho
astorath
the DA man who can have a land speeder or bike,on bike
emperor's champion
helbregt
grimarus
GKGM
GK stern
GK libby
GK crowe
GK Draigo
others i don't remember

THIS IS A LEGAL UNIT



sidenote:ye, he,in his infinate sadness, has every MEQ charcter out there.

This was not a legal unit; emperor's champion, helbrecht, and grimaldus; would not fight in any army nor join a fight with an army that included: GKGM, GK stern, GK libby, GK crowe, GK Draigo, 9 libbies(mix of codexes), 10 paladins, and/or tiguirius.

Even in apocalypse(and now that Witch hunters physical Codex is the only codex with Allies left), especially in Apocalypse, Abhor the Whitch still stands; emperor's champion, helbrecht, and grimaldus cannot and will not fight alongside any psykers.

Kommissar Kel wrote:
This was not a legal unit; emperor's champion, helbrecht, and grimaldus; would not fight in any army nor join a fight with an army that included: GKGM, GK stern, GK libby, GK crowe, GK Draigo, 9 libbies(mix of codexes), 10 paladins, and/or tiguirius.

BT can ally with Grey Knight Space Marines.

Abhor the Witch
No model with psychic powers may be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as allies to any army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines.

Emphasis Mine.

pretre wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:
This was not a legal unit; emperor's champion, helbrecht, and grimaldus; would not fight in any army nor join a fight with an army that included: GKGM, GK stern, GK libby, GK crowe, GK Draigo, 9 libbies(mix of codexes), 10 paladins, and/or tiguirius.

BT can ally with Grey Knight Space Marines.

Abhor the Witch
No model with psychic powers may be fielded as an ally to the Black Templars and they will not fight as allies to any army that includes any models with psychic powers, with the exception of Grey Knights Space Marines.

Emphasis Mine.

My mistake, so we remove all the grey Gnights and the UM Libby and 9 mixed Codex Libbies still make it an illegal unit(or, well Army in general).

Ah yes.I forgot about that.Will tell him for the next time he tries to do this.

Nice improvement, Deadshot. Now you just need to learn to hit the Space-bar and all is good.

Helps when the Mods tell you off.

Hehe.

Yeah, that'll do it.