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I've got quite a bit but I feel like Im missing out on a few things. I run a armored company with my Steel Legion army. I have 8 chimeras always on the field as long as its above 1500 points. But I feel as though something is lacking in my last. For my Fast Support and Heavy Support this is what I have:

- 3 FW Armageddan Medusas
- 3 FW Hydra Flak Tanks
- LRBT, Lascannon, HB Sponsons
- 2 Vendetts
- 1 Griffon

I feel like something is lacking in my list of choices but I dont know what I want to add next. Dakka give me some ideas here. Im thinking about the following to add to my army:

- LR Demolisher, Lascannon, Multi-Meltas
- Hellhound Variants, the Banewolf in general
- A armored Sentinel Squadron, possibly with either Autocannons or Plasma Guns

Im only looking to add some armor to my list here. Im not interested in getting anymore Vendetts then I have as I dont mind using LRBT's. So give me some ideas Dakka!

I'd have to say more Russ of nearly any type are needed. The Demolisher is fine, but with 3 Medusa I don't see the point.

A couple of Hellhound hulls (magnets are your friend here) are also a good option. But skip the Sentinels. Too many points for too little punch.

Yes, more LR. Some ideas:

- an executioner without sponsons or with plasma sponsons
- a Pask vanquisher with LC and no sponsons or MM sponsons
- a Pask exterminator with LC and MM or HB sponsons

Sentinels are awesome models but crappy units.

Why don't you have manticores? They are good.

Spartan 117 wrote:I've got quite a bit but I feel like Im missing out on a few things. I run a armored company with my Steel Legion army. I have 8 chimeras always on the field as long as its above 1500 points. But I feel as though something is lacking in my last. For my Fast Support and Heavy Support this is what I have:

- 3 FW Armageddan Medusas
- 3 FW Hydra Flak Tanks
- LRBT, Lascannon, HB Sponsons
- 2 Vendetts
- 1 Griffon

I feel like something is lacking in my list of choices but I dont know what I want to add next. Dakka give me some ideas here. Im thinking about the following to add to my army:

- LR Demolisher, Lascannon, Multi-Meltas
- Hellhound Variants, the Banewolf in general
- A armored Sentinel Squadron, possibly with either Autocannons or Plasma Guns

Im only looking to add some armor to my list here. Im not interested in getting anymore Vendetts then I have as I dont mind using LRBT's. So give me some ideas Dakka!

I'd drop the Medusa and Hydra squadrons down to 2 each. it's easier to hide/move a squadron of 2 than 3. and then use the extra points to get a second LRBT or switch them both to Demolishers.
I'd probably go LRBTs if you run the Medusa sqd. although, can you ever have too many AP 2 pie plates, really?

alarmingrick wrote:

Spartan 117 wrote:I've got quite a bit but I feel like Im missing out on a few things. I run a armored company with my Steel Legion army. I have 8 chimeras always on the field as long as its above 1500 points. But I feel as though something is lacking in my last. For my Fast Support and Heavy Support this is what I have:

- 3 FW Armageddan Medusas
- 3 FW Hydra Flak Tanks
- LRBT, Lascannon, HB Sponsons
- 2 Vendetts
- 1 Griffon

I feel like something is lacking in my list of choices but I dont know what I want to add next. Dakka give me some ideas here. Im thinking about the following to add to my army:

- LR Demolisher, Lascannon, Multi-Meltas
- Hellhound Variants, the Banewolf in general
- A armored Sentinel Squadron, possibly with either Autocannons or Plasma Guns

Im only looking to add some armor to my list here. Im not interested in getting anymore Vendetts then I have as I dont mind using LRBT's. So give me some ideas Dakka!

I'd drop the Medusa and Hydra squadrons down to 2 each. it's easier to hide/move a squadron of 2 than 3. and then use the extra points to get a second LRBT or switch them both to Demolishers.
I'd probably go LRBTs if you run the Medusa sqd. although, can you ever have too many AP 2 pie plates, really?

A lot of the time we play 2500-2750 point battles and higher. SO being Guard I take lots of tanks and such. And I realy enjoy watching things die with the AP2 pie plates. I like to have as many as possible. I think the Demolisher is were its gionna be. By the way I never run Pask. Worth too many points for what he does. Plus he gets targeted real fast.

I'd suggest Basilisks in place of LRBT's, they can ignore cover and better weapon strength plus ap.

May I suggest Manticores, my friend uses them and I have real trouble dealing with them.

Don't skip the Sentinels so quickly. From what it sounds like, you've got LOTS of AV12 saturation, so adding a Leman or two will just give a tempting target for the enemy's heavier AT weapons to focus on, instead of being split among nearly a dozen AV12 vehicles.

The AV12 Sentinels give you a lot of useful things. For one, it gives you MORE AV12 that will help split enemy AT fire. More importantly, as walkers they have AV12 in close combat. A squad of 3 is a going to tie up even TH/SS terminators for a turn or two, and anything less than that for even longer.

Hellhounds and Manticores will probably help a lot. 3 Medusae, 3 Hydras, and a Manticore is a frightening prospect for full heavy support slots.

ChrisWWII wrote:Don't skip the Sentinels so quickly. From what it sounds like, you've got LOTS of AV12 saturation, so adding a Leman or two will just give a tempting target for the enemy's heavier AT weapons to focus on, instead of being split among nearly a dozen AV12 vehicles.

The AV12 Sentinels give you a lot of useful things. For one, it gives you MORE AV12 that will help split enemy AT fire. More importantly, as walkers they have AV12 in close combat. A squad of 3 is a going to tie up even TH/SS terminators for a turn or two, and anything less than that for even longer.

You're kidding right? A minimum size squad of TH/SS termies might take a round to obliterate 3 Armored Sentinels. With 10-15 attacks hitting on 3+ , damaging on 4+ and destroying on 6+/4+(since all combat is simultaneous the hits are all resolved using the squadron rules) that's 165 points worth of 3 second speed bump. The same PV as a Demolisher. I know which I'd rather spend my points on.

Sanguinary Dan wrote:
You're kidding right? A minimum size squad of TH/SS termies might take a round to obliterate 3 Armored Sentinels. With 10-15 attacks hitting on 3+ , damaging on 4+ and destroying on 6+/4+(since all combat is simultaneous the hits are all resolved using the squadron rules) that's 165 points worth of 3 second speed bump. The same PV as a Demolisher. I know which I'd rather spend my points on.

No I'm not.

15 Attacks on the Charge
WS3 vs WS4, so we'll call 8 hit.
Of those, 2 will penetrate, and 2 will glance.
Yeah, I'm going to say that at least 1 (likely 2) will survive into next turn.


Even then, change it around a bit. What about things that AREN'T TH/SS terminators? Just because something folds fast to one of the best CC units in the game doesn't mean that it's a bad choice.

Why not take a vaylkrie with missle pods?

Then buy some magnets. Get another lrbt or lrd set and magnatize the sponsons onto tank, And dont glue guns nto the sponson.

Magnatize the top and bottom of the turret that way you can inner change cannons. Now you have 3-4 diferent tank possabibites + all sponson options and all on one chassie.

Heck, cut the sponsons off your current tank and do the same. Or sell it and buy new.




The vaylkrie misslepods will take care of a good portion of a 10man squad, and then you can drop a vet squad w flamers next to a building loaded w/ enemy troops


Other idea, MORTARS. take a platoon, put hws of just mortars. You can only target one level of a ruin. so target the one thats easyest to hit. They can get pinned, they dont get covor(depending) and you can still subtract your crappy bs. not to mention they shoot 48'

Masive snipe fest of enemy hvy bolters and lascannons v.s your mortars in covor. You dont need line of sight...he does

I'm pretty sure ChrisWWII's math is wrong, but his premise is absolutely correct. When you actually analyze it instead of just assuming things you see that AV12 walkers are super tough in combat. 5 Charging TH/SS terminators get around 3 penetrating hits, which won't take out 3 walkers unless there's some really good luck involved. More importantly, however, is that TH/SS termies are pretty much tailor made to take out armor. Most other assault units will take many turns of fighting to bring down your cheap walkers (if at all).

Chris, your math is off.

WS4 (Terminators) vs. WS3 (Sentinels)

15 attacks * 2/3 = 10 hits (they're hitting on a 3+)
S8 vs. AV12 = 1/2 have an effect. Of these, 2/3 will penetrate. In total, you're looking at around 3.33 penetrating hits and 1.6 glancing hits.

These penetrating hits will wreck one on a 3+ (open topped vehicles, immobilized -> wrecked). So you're looking at 2+ wrecked and 1 beaten up badly. So they assault the squadron, stay in combat on your turn (yay, now you can't shoot them!), then they wreck the last one and tearass across the rest of your army. No thanks...

He's not totally wrong, and the Armored Sentinel isn't open topped, but I agree with you that at best they'd be a 165 point speed bump. And outside of Apocalypse there are massive numbers of units that are more deserving of those points.

They're not open topped.

I screwed up on the 'to hit roll', I'll admit so...

15 Attacks on the charge
10 Hit.
5 Have a result.

Of these, 3.333 penetrate. 1.6666 glance.

You wreck on a 4 up with the pens, and on a 6 with the glance.

So 1-2 will be killed on turn one.

However, lets remember that TH/SS terminators are among the best thing to use on vehicles. However, against anything less than that...say, a 10 man Tactical Marine squad with a powerfist?

Assuming the Marines have krak grenades (cause I can't remember what Tactical Marines are equipped with...)

10 S6 attacks, 3 S8 attacks.

6.66667 S6 attacks hit.

1 S8 attack hits.

Of the S6 attacks, 1 glances.

Of the S8 attacks, .5 have a result.

A lot better no?

Now, how about a squad of 30 boyz with a Nob w/ a powerklaw? Or how about Long Fangs (if you use Creed to outflank)?

Sure, against TH/SS terminators they won't hold as long, but just because a unit doesn't last as long against a unit that's the best at taking it out doesn't mean that it's bad. It's like saying that Leman Russes and Land Raiders suck because you can blow them up with meltas easily.

Against TH/SS terminators, they're a speed bump. Against anything else? They're going to be a serious sponge that'll keep 'em tied up in CC for a while.

ChrisWWII, you really think that on 10 tries you'll roll a 6 two thirds of the time? Or did we forget that vehicles with a WS are only hit on a 6 unless immobilized?

A regular Tactical Squad will be tied up for a long time when facing 3 Armored Sentinels. But the post I responded to claimed they could hold up TH/SS Terminator for a reasonable amount of time. And IMO that's the bit that's ridiculous

My feeling that 165 points is better spent almost anywhere other than on 3 Armored Sentinels is not going to be changed by how good a speed bump they "might" be against certain enemy types. Sure they can tie up some troops for a good amount of time, but if I spend the same points and FA slot on a Bane Wolf I can just kill most of the enemy unit. And a dead bad guy is much less of a threat than one that could get lucky and destroy the speed bump at an in-opportune time.

The bottom line is they are simply not that good for the points. For the cost of a 3x squadron, you can field a power blob with 9/12 power attacks and 21 warm bodies. The blob will last longer and kill more.

I think they would be far more competitive if they had two weapon mounts and functioned as the IG equivalent of SM dreadnoughts. A bit less armor and WS3, BS3, but also cheaper, taken in squads, and having the DCCW (with 2 attacks). For those that still like the scout version, let's keep it as is, but the armored sentinel should be like a weaker dreadnought. Then people would field them far more and GW would sell more models.

As you are playing Steel Legion, I recommend something that adds more AV 12 to your list. Armoured sentinels add a lot of AV 12, but not that much firepower, unless you equip them with plasma cannons. They fit the theme very well from a fluff point of view, but there are more competetive choices. The Bane Wolf/Hellhound(depending on meta) would also be a great addition, as they can move up with the chimeras and spray enemies in cover or thoose who have had their transports wrecked.

Skip the sents. Armored are worth all of the extra points they cost. If you want to have sents, just go with scout ones. I have some that are made up like armored but I count them as scout. Mosts opps are happy to let me use them as scout because they think their weaker then armored.....

Necrontyr40k wrote:The bottom line is they are simply not that good for the points. For the cost of a 3x squadron, you can field a power blob with 9/12 power attacks and 21 warm bodies. The blob will last longer and kill more.

I think they would be far more competitive if they had two weapon mounts and functioned as the IG equivalent of SM dreadnoughts. A bit less armor and WS3, BS3, but also cheaper, taken in squads, and having the DCCW (with 2 attacks). For those that still like the scout version, let's keep it as is, but the armored sentinel should be like a weaker dreadnought. Then people would field them far more and GW would sell more models.

I think you've just described a Killa Kan.

If they had to pay for Extra Armor and that cost was subtracted from the current PV they would work.

Well, as most said I would recomend the demolisher. Or anaother LRBT. In either case your opponent will be deeply disturbed by meeting them.

And then I'll just have to comment on the sentinel debate:
I run 2 squads, and basic scout with 3 sents and 1 armoured with 1 LC, 1 ML and 1 AC. They'r actually the models survives the longest and does the most damage. Mostly because my opponents think that the sents wont to any damage. Plus, they can stay out of harms way if my opponent want to charge them.

And, to be fair, I'll rather loose those three sentinels, points and all, than a demolisher any day.

My friend has 3 Leman Russ variant with the Gatling cannon (I forgot the variant name...). And he LOVES them and brings them every game as long as he's not fighting a mech list. I don't know.... I thought it might be a interesting addition to your army.

Its called the punisher. Punisher gatling cannon

That's right.... Punisher.... its absolutely nasty. It doesn't have an AP value but hey, if you are firing 20 shots, ur opponent's gotta roll 1s on his armour.

Punishers are for people with loaded dice It's the second most expensive variant and the most overpriced. Even with 20 shots it's just too specialized to be viable. A basic Russ with Lascannon and HB sponsons is only 5 points more expensive. Not a hard choice between the two IMO.

I use the Punisher Gatling gun for my Exterminators. Spinning rotary buzz saw trumps twin barrels everyday.

I agree that sentinels are a good choice for some extra av12. Multilasers are great for popping transports, and for gunning the exposed troops down while you're approaching for the charge.

more leman russ, thats all i can say about it. AV14 with a 72' S8 Ap3 pie plate for 150 pnts, why the heck not. also if you magnetise (or just blue-tack) the end of the battle cannon in you can swap it out for the vanquisher. even better forthe demolisher kits you dont have to glue the gun mounting in so you can change between demolisher, executioner and punisher (IMO punisher is pretty crap: 20 shots, avg 10 hit, against T4 6.667 wound, against marines thats ~2 cassualties, orks w 4+ thats ~3.5 even against kroot with no armour save its still only 7 wounds ant the kroot are probably in cover..... long story short: sounds good, doesnt realy work too well :( )

More tanks more tanks indeed

just get a million men. stuff it, you're guard.