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So my GW standard brush started to split after only 3 models and I'm looking to buy a Winsor Series 7 brush but I'm torn on which to get, basically I want a "go to" brush that will be suitable for doing 99% of the model and will seamlessly replace my GW standard brush.

Miniatures:



Finest:



I also ordered this stuff, has anyone used it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/ARTIST-PAINT-CLEANER-PRESERVER-RESTORER/dp/B001Y7BI04

From my experience, here are the sizes I would ultimately look to get over time. 1, 0, 00 and 000. If I were to only have the money for 1 of them right now, I'd probably go with a size 1 or 0, but I would need to see the brush in person and know exactly what you are painting. Anything bigger than 2 or 3 is probably, but not necessarily, too big for most minis in the scale most people work on here, but might work well on a vehicle.

I have not heard of the soap you link to, which means nothing, there are lots of options for this. This is the one i use, i have seen others use and it is excellent. Glad you are thinking about this ahead of time so you can properly take care of these beauties.

Just curious, any reason you are limiting yourself to the Winsor Series? No Da Vinci? No Escoda? Not trying to disuade you, just curious.

Synchro wrote:From my experience, here are the sizes I would ultimately look to get over time. 1, 0, 00 and 000. If I were to only have the money for 1 of them right now, I'd probably go with a size 1 or 0, but I would need to see the brush in person and know exactly what you are painting. Anything bigger than 2 or 3 is probably, but not necessarily, too big for most minis in the scale most people work on here, but might work well on a vehicle.

I have not heard of the soap you link to, which means nothing, there are lots of options for this. This is the one i use, i have seen others use and it is excellent. Glad you are thinking about this ahead of time so you can properly take care of these beauties.

Just curious, any reason you are limiting yourself to the Winsor Series? No Da Vinci? No Escoda? Not trying to disuade you, just curious.

- I can stretch to 2 brushes at an absolute maximum, so maybe a #1 and #0 miniature? Or maybe a #2 and #1?

- I'm painting Warhammer 40k Orks (Boyz and Nobz specifically)

- I heard they were the best?

Id say go with the size 1 finest, it might be a bit more expensive but because the bristles are longer then it will take more to get into the ferrule which ultimately kills the brush.

Size 0 is a better all arounder IMHO but I'd go miniature if you want to buy from the S7 line.


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You don't REALLY need to buy super expensive brushes. Any good quality Sable or Taklon brush will meet or exceed your expectations if you've been using citadel products. For 6 quid you could get a pack of 5 to 7 assorted Rounds that will work suitably or get a 1 and 0 round, 0 spotter, 1 and 3/0 filbert individually and have quite an arsenal.

If you want to help keep any brush in good condition then you may want to also get this:

http://www.artsupplies.co.uk/item-brush-cleaner-&-preserver.htm

personally I havnt used it but have heard nothing but good comments about it.

johnscott10 wrote:If you want to help keep any brush in good condition then you may want to also get this:

http://www.artsupplies.co.uk/item-brush-cleaner-&-preserver.htm

personally I havnt used it but have heard nothing but good comments about it.

That's the exact one I ordered from Amazon earlier, for a pound cheaper too!

I just ordered the series 7 0, 1 and 2 miniatures, I know people have their preferences when it comes to bristle length but I'm just not comfortable with the longer bristles on the finest range. £22.67 inc vat and shipping.

MrH wrote:

johnscott10 wrote:If you want to help keep any brush in good condition then you may want to also get this:

http://www.artsupplies.co.uk/item-brush-cleaner-&-preserver.htm

personally I havnt used it but have heard nothing but good comments about it.

That's the exact one I ordered from Amazon earlier, for a pound cheaper too!

I just ordered the series 7 0, 1 and 2 miniatures, I know people have their preferences when it comes to bristle length but I'm just not comfortable with the longer bristles on the finest range. £22.67 inc vat and shipping.

TO AMAZON! Glad you mentioned that before I had cash to order this stuff XD

Rosemary & Co. Brushes are equal quality to W&N at a fraction of the price.

I use the following for 99% of my work:

Series 22 0
Series 22 1
Series 323 2/0
Series 33 3/0
Series 92 4/0

I just got my brushes in the post and I took a few photos. Am I being paranoid or does the middle brush not have the same sharpness as the other two? Also, should I wash them now or just leave them as they are until I need to paint with them? I'm really scared about messing them up as they were so expensive. My 3 in 1 cleaner, preserver and restorer hasn't arrived yet so I won't be using them until it does.

Yeah, the point on the middle one does look a bit odd. Have you tried washing the sizing (glue) out of the brush to see if the tip looks better that way?

I would not worry about it too much. Dip the brush in water, get your hand wet and then twirl the brush with the bristles flat on your hand to shape it.

On a related note, you always want to leave it shaped how you want it after use. You want it to dry in the shape you want it the next time you paint. Yes, I know you have not used it yet, but that look of the middle on is not uncommon.

Nimbosa wrote:Yeah, the point on the middle one does look a bit odd. Have you tried washing the sizing (glue) out of the brush to see if the tip looks better that way?

Just gave it a little rinse now.

Synchro wrote:I would not worry about it too much. Dip the brush in water, get your hand wet and then twirl the brush with the bristles flat on your hand to shape it.

On a related note, you always want to leave it shaped how you want it after use. You want it to dry in the shape you want it the next time you paint. Yes, I know you have not used it yet, but that look of the middle on is not uncommon.

That makes me feel a little better. I'm just scared I'll ruin them, my GW standard brush split after 4 models and I thought I took care of that well, I never left it in water, I stored it upright, I cleaned it in water after every use, I didn't let the paint go into the metal and it still died on me. This time I bought some proper brush cleaner but it hasn't arrived yet.

New photo after being washed in water:

That paint brush restorer/cleaner stuff is a good idea. I use a similar produce called "Masters". You can use it to clean the brushes, and then you leave it in, shape the tip, and let it dry and it also conditions the brush.

Highly recommend this video by Les Bursley, good intro to brushes and how to take care of them:
http://www.youtube.com/user/awesomepaintjob#p/u/9/eACqcAQdw2U

Nimbosa wrote:That paint brush restorer/cleaner stuff is a good idea. I use a similar produce called "Masters". You can use it to clean the brushes, and then you leave it in, shape the tip, and let it dry and it also conditions the brush.

Highly recommend this video by Les Bursley, good intro to brushes and how to take care of them:
http://www.youtube.com/user/awesomepaintjob#p/u/9/eACqcAQdw2U

I heard good things about the masters cleaner but it was more than 3x the cost of the one I bought, I also heard good things about the cheaper one so went for that one. I probably won't get to test the brushes out for a few days, but I'm looking forward to it.

MrH, you thought of trying rosemaryandco.com for brushes?

I use a 000 and 00 from W&N and the rest from the above site, alot cheaper and very good quality.

Jonp wrote:MrH, you thought of trying rosemaryandco.com for brushes?

I use a 000 and 00 from W&N and the rest from the above site, alot cheaper and very good quality.

Well not now as I just spent £23 on the Series 7, but I will check them out in the future for sure.

Finest Size 1 will likely be the most versatile. It should keep a very fine point for detail work and the belly looks about the right size. The jump between 1 and 2 is pretty significant, and I think you'd find yourself overloading the 2 much more easily. The miniature line has the opposite issue - the bristles are shorter, meaning the equivalent size just won't be able to hold enough paint for anything but the final detail work. I say go for the Finest size 1.

I just thought I'd let you know my "3 in 1 colourfull arts brush cleaner and preserver" came today. I'm trying to fix my GW standard brush and I'm not having that much luck, some of the old green paint has come off but most of it is still on the brush, it's currently soaked in the stuff so hopefully that will help, apparently it needs to be left for a few hours. It looks exactly like the Masters stuff, but maybe it's not as good, I'll let you know after it has soaked for awhile.

Jonp wrote:MrH, you thought of trying rosemaryandco.com for brushes?

I use a 000 and 00 from W&N and the rest from the above site, alot cheaper and very good quality.

With the combination of currency exchange and additional shipping, these aren't really any cheaper then Windsor & Newton brushes in the US.

This cleaner from Colourfull Arts is useless, I've cleaned it multiple times and it was left soaking for like 3 hours and the paint is still firmly on the brush.

I recommend Windsor & Newton brush cleaner and restorer if you want to try and salvage and old brush. Its important to note that this doesnt always work.

I highly recommend picking up a cake of "The Masters" Brush Cleaner and Preserver, its pretty much the essential and most widely used brush cleaner.

Catyrpelius wrote:
With the combination of currency exchange and additional shipping, these aren't really any cheaper then Windsor & Newton brushes in the US.

Yea I imagine its not worth it at all for outside of the UK, but I mentioned it because MrH is listed as in England.

Catyrpelius wrote:I recommend Windsor & Newton brush cleaner and restorer if you want to try and salvage and old brush. Its important to note that this doesnt always work.

I highly recommend picking up a cake of "The Masters" Brush Cleaner and Preserver, its pretty much the essential and most widely used brush cleaner.

Ha, if by old you mean a week old then yeah, I'm trying to salvage an old brush. That's what gets me, it's not even old or caked on and it still can't clean it. I would have got the Masters stuff but it was like 3x the cost and this stuff had a positive feedback on Amazon, not sure what that bloke was smoking.

Catyrpelius wrote:With the combination of currency exchange and additional shipping, these aren't really any cheaper then Windsor & Newton brushes in the US.

By far the best prices on these brushes that I have see in the US is from dickblick.com. The same W&N miniature Series 7 brush that retails for $26 is usually 50%-70% cheaper there.

If you're only getting 1 brush, I use the W&N Miniature brush for 99% of my painting. I have a 000 brush that I very rarely use (freehand highlighting only). I don't recommend the 000, as it's too small and doesn't load paint well. I've ordered a 0 and a 00 to try out.

Masters Brush Cleaner is amazing. I didn't clean my brush properly and didn't paint for a few days, so the dark green caked at the ferule. A quick dip and brush in with Masters and it was almost good as new. It's worn a bit, which Masters can't fix, and is mostly due to me being a bit rough on the brush.

Synchro wrote:

Catyrpelius wrote:With the combination of currency exchange and additional shipping, these aren't really any cheaper then Windsor & Newton brushes in the US.

By far the best prices on these brushes that I have see in the US is from dickblick.com. The same W&N miniature Series 7 brush that retails for $26 is usually 50%-70% cheaper there.

This is where I get most of my non Michaels supplies.

I'd just like to point out that it is possible to get the same results with cheap brushes, they just don't last as long as Kolinsky Sables.

Keep at it. I swear by Master's, but even that stuff takes time and effort to do heavy cleaning. Bristle staining comes off of even white nylon after 2-3 rounds of building a thick lather on my palm and rinsing, but paint encrusted near the ferrule usually takes a bit of picking at with a fingernail afterward (the initial few rounds are enough to start softening the hold), as well as a slightly more aggressive (but still careful) combination of circular scrubbing, then rolling and dragging across my palm. I'll likely do this half a dozen times before I'm satisfied. Sounds like a lot, but it only takes a few minutes per brush.

Not sure where you were shopping, but the "Studio Cake" (the middle size, similar to a hockey puck) should run you well under $10 (US) and will last quite a while. Don't give up on your current supply just yet, but if it really doesn't work out, Master's will pay for itself several times over in brush life and maintained quality. Plus, many of us know and love Master's - if you can't get that to work, we'll know the problem is with you and not the product!

oadie wrote:Keep at it. I swear by Master's, but even that stuff takes time and effort to do heavy cleaning. Bristle staining comes off of even white nylon after 2-3 rounds of building a thick lather on my palm and rinsing, but paint encrusted near the ferrule usually takes a bit of picking at with a fingernail afterward (the initial few rounds are enough to start softening the hold), as well as a slightly more aggressive (but still careful) combination of circular scrubbing, then rolling and dragging across my palm. I'll likely do this half a dozen times before I'm satisfied. Sounds like a lot, but it only takes a few minutes per brush.

Not sure where you were shopping, but the "Studio Cake" (the middle size, similar to a hockey puck) should run you well under $10 (US) and will last quite a while. Don't give up on your current supply just yet, but if it really doesn't work out, Master's will pay for itself several times over in brush life and maintained quality. Plus, many of us know and love Master's - if you can't get that to work, we'll know the problem is with you and not the product!

I'll keep trying but I can't see it working if it hasn't by now. I was looking on Amazon.co.uk and Masters costs £11 - £12 with delivery.

EDIT: Just found it on eBay for £7 from the same guy I got my brushes from, damn it! Why didn't I see that before I bought this crap.

Catyrpelius wrote:I'd just like to point out that it is possible to get the same results with cheap brushes, they just don't last as long as Kolinsky Sables.

I would agree it is possible, but for most of us not likely. Having better brushes does not make your painting better, but it makes it easier for someone with less skill to produce better results quicker. There are people that regardless of what brush you give them they will produce something great looking. But for us meer mortals having higher caliber tools like a Kolinsky brush makes it easier for us to make great look things in a shorter amount of time. This is true with hand tools, power tools, photography, etc.