Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been a CSM player exclusively since I started playing. I love the style the CSM codex brings and the tactical diversity it brings, but one thing I rarely ever even consider bringing is a dread. To make up for this, I decided I should make an obnoxious dreadnought spam list from the GK codex (and my first dive into playing something other than CSM).

GK Dreadspam

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150 pts

Grand Master Mordrak - 200 pts
3x Ghost Knight w/ 2 Halberds and 1 Brotherhood Banner - 145 pts

Troops:

x4 Purifier Squad - 776 pts (194 pts each unit)
- Knight w/ Daemonhammer and Master crafted nemesis weapon
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Rhino

Elites:

x3 Venerable Dreads - 585 pts (195 pts each unit)
- 2 TL Autocannons
- Psybolt Ammo

Heavy:

Dread - 135 pts
- 2 TL Autocannons
- Psybolt Ammo

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150 pts

Troops:

Purifier Squad - 211
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 4 Purifiers
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback

Purifier Squad - 211
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 4 Purifiers
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback

Purifier Squad - 211
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 4 Purifiers
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback

Purifier Squad - 211
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 4 Purifiers
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback

Elite:

Venerable Dreadnought - 195
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Venerable Dreadnought - 195
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Venerable Dreadnought - 195
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Heavy:

Dreadnought - 135
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Dreadnought - 135
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Dreadnought - 135
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

22 leftover points to upgrade something(s).

*edit* had left out one of the purifier squads in the original post (as well as other mistakes made).
**edit** latest list posted in bold.

Given the presence of psycannons, you're basically paying 6 2/3 points for +1 shooting strength per model. I think you're better off cutting out the psybolts and adding a 6th purifier to each squad, maybe give them a hammer.

Otherwise, I do like the list, I'm in the process of tweaking my version, with units of 6 purifiers with 1 hammer, 2 cannons, 3 halberds, and a psybolterback.

One thing I've been thinking could be worthwhile is equipping one or two dreads with something other than TLAC, perhaps plasma cannon/missile launcher to pick off MEQs. If you try them , I'd like to hear how it goes.

Tweaked a tad; Dropped one of the regular Dreads, kept the normal load out for one of the Venerable Dreads (Multi melta and Doomfist), Increased the Purifier squad sizes to 6 each and added a Daemonhammer to each group (however, I kept the Psybolt Ammo, just for good measure), and I upgraded the Razorbacks to each have a Storm Bolter and Psybolt Ammo as well.

GK Dreadspam 2000 pts

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150 pts

Troops:

Purifier Squad - 255
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 5 Purifiers:
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Psybolt Ammo

Purifier Squad - 255
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 5 Purifiers:
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Psybolt Ammo

Purifier Squad - 255
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 5 Purifiers:
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Psybolt Ammo

Purifier Squad - 255
- Knight of the Flame w/ Nemesis Force Halberd
- 5 Purifiers:
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer
- 2 Psycannons
- Psybolt Ammo
- Razorback w/ Storm Bolter and Psybolt Ammo

Elite:

Venerable Dreadnought - 195
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Venerable Dreadnought - 195
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Venerable Dreadnought - 175

Heavy:

Dreadnought - 135
- Psybolt Ammo
- 2 TL Autocannons

Dreadnought - 130
- Psybolt Ammo
- 1 TL Autocannon

As a side note, I was thinking of modeling these guys as a Black Knight regimen, with shifty rules on how they get the job done, and instead of using Dreads for the Heavy options, modifying two plastic Daemon Princes (as count as) to have Dreadnought-esque armor, having required forearms replaced with TL Autocannons, and helmets over their heads used to subdue them and psychically control them on the battlefield. Think that would slide?

6 Purifiers is a waste. You are paying points that isn't getting you a psycannon. Drop all the squads down to 5 men.
Psybolt ammo on 3 guys per squad? It is only good on maxed out termie squads.
Little more tweaking on the purifiers. The Daemon hammer always should go on the knight of the flame, since he can make it Master crafted.
I say this a lot. Don't give purifiers razorbacks! Reason being, is that purifiers can shoot both psycannons out of the rhinos hatch, and they can't do that out of a razorback. Strike squads do better in razorbacks, because they have only 1 psycannon.

If I dropped down to Rhinos that refunds 20 pts (another 60 due to the loss of Pysbolt ammo and stormbolter upgrades and another 8 for a return of Nemesis Halberds), dropping psybolt ammo on the Purifiers refunds another 80, and dropping back down to 5 men per squad would refund 96. That leaves me with 262 leftover pts.

If I switch the Hammers to the Knights and Master craft them I spend 20 points. That would leave me 242 pts to spend.

So what should I spend those left over points on? Repurchase a Dual TL Autocannon Psybolt Dread or an extra Purifier Squad with the same load out as the other 4, or something altogether completely different?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's another tweak, added a Brother-Captain to ride with one of the Purifier Squads.

GK 2k Dreadspam (1996 pts)

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150 pts

GK Brother-Captain - 215 pts
- Nemesis Warding Stave
- Psychotroke Grenades
- Rad Grenades

Troops:

x4 Purifier Squad - 776 pts (194 pts each unit)
- Knight w/ Daemonhammer and Master crafted nemesis weapon
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Rhino

Elite:

x3 Venerable Dreads - 585 pts (195 pts each unit)
- 2 TL Autocannons
- Psybolt Ammo

Heavy:

x2 Dreads - 270 pts (135 pts each unit)
- 2 TL Autocannons
- Psybolt Ammo

After some considerable thought, I decided against non Psyflemen dreads, as it would lower my target saturation, opening up more chances for my opponent to focus on my objective holding Purifiers. Also, I considered filling the spot the Brother-Captain is holding with a Dreadknight, though I don't know how to load one out correctly, or just fill it with another Psyfleman Dread, even though I don't know where to spend the extra points after that.

Realized, after reading the FAQ, that if I added Mordrak I could give my Ven Dreads even more purpose holding objectives on my side of the table. For annihilation games, maybe picking Spearhead for some Purifiers.

HQ:

Castellan Crowe - 150 pts

Grand Master Mordrak - 200 pts
3x Ghost Knight w/ 2 Halberds and 1 Brotherhood Banner - 145 pts

Troops:

x4 Purifier Squad - 776 pts (194 pts each unit)
- Knight w/ Daemonhammer and Master crafted nemesis weapon
- 2 Nemesis Force Halberds
- 2 Psycannons
- Rhino

Elites:

x3 Venerable Dreads - 585 pts (195 pts each unit)
- 2 TL Autocannons
- Psybolt Ammo

Heavy:

Dread - 135 pts
- 2 TL Autocannons
- Psybolt Ammo

woodbok wrote:I say this a lot. Don't give purifiers razorbacks! Reason being, is that purifiers can shoot both psycannons out of the rhinos hatch, and they can't do that out of a razorback. Strike squads do better in razorbacks, because they have only 1 psycannon.

Would you like to give a reason for this? Other than the obvious 'durr, Rhinos have fire points!' remark, can you actually give any reason why Rhinos are better?

My comment C&P from a thread yesterday:

1) 5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Razorback
2) 5 Purifiers, 2 Psycannons, Rhino

Scenario 1:
The Rhino squad moves forward 6" and fires 2 S4 and 4 S7 shots from the two fire points, 30" range
The Razorback squad moves forward 6" and fires 3 TL S6 shots, 42" range.

Scenario 2:
The Rhino moves forward 12" and the squad inside cannot shoot unless they get out.
The Razorback moves forward 12" and cannot shoot unless the squad inside get out.

Scenario 3:
The Rhino moves forward 12" and the squad gets out, giving you 4 S7 shots.
The Razorback moves forward 12" and the squad gets out, giving you 4 S7 shots.

Scenario 4:
The Rhino moves 6" and the Purifiers get out, giving you 2 S4 and 4 S7 shots.
The Razorback moves 6" and the Purifiers get out, giving you 3 TL S6 and 4 S7 shots.

Scenario 1, 2 and 3 are pretty much the same, where as 4 gives you almost double the firepower. Does that makes sense?

Before you say "But when the squad gets out won't it die next turn!" - maybe it will, maybe it won't. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to manuvre the squad so it gets cover from the Razorback, particularly when you have all four squads doing the same thing providing overlapping cover and LOS blocking.

If I learned anything from playing CSM, it's that you stay in the friggin' Rhino unless you won't get shot at/charged/killed the following turn!!! And that's when I'm playing CSM who have bigger troop squads than Purifiers do, taking down 5 Purifiers after they kill one object out in the open is a lot easier than killing 10 CSM/7 PM, and the latter two are pretty darn easy to kill.

I think the reason he recommended Rhinos over Razorbacks, and I agree with him after long thought, is the mentality of "better safe than sorry". It's the same reason I'm stacking up on Ven Dreads rather than Regular Dreads: survivability, especially when the cargo in the Rhinos are the very important objective holding purifiers.

If I learned anything from playing CSM, it's that you stay in the friggin' Rhino unless you won't get shot at/charged/killed the following turn!!!

Is there any reason you aren't positioning your Razorbacks in a "V" formation to limit LOS, give cover and deny assaults to your Purifiers? They have 24" range weapons, why are you letting them get charged?

I don't know what you're talking about with this 'better safe than sorry' nonsense; look at my scenarios above, there is almost no downside to taking Razorbacks. Do you know what you gain though? Long range shooting that is usually lacking in Purifier lists.

I think with 5-6 psyrifle dreads he has all the long range shooting he'll ever need.

Personally I'd go purifier squads of ten, 2 psycannons obv, rhino, mix of halberds, hammers, and swords.

3 or 4 of these with 5-6 psyrifle dreads is poopsock for your opponent. Just sauce all over them.

So you're saying that a shooty list has too much shooting? Horrible logic, especially when you lose nothing by taking it. 20 S8 shots over 5 units in fine, but it's nothing special compared to some other shooty lists I can think of.
My standard 2000 point Space Marines list has 12 Autocannon, 13 Missile Launcher and 4 Lascannon shots per turn, spread out over 11 different units - why should a shooty GK list aim for any less than this?

unbeliever87 wrote:

If I learned anything from playing CSM, it's that you stay in the friggin' Rhino unless you won't get shot at/charged/killed the following turn!!!

Is there any reason you aren't positioning your Razorbacks in a "V" formation to limit LOS, give cover and deny assaults to your Purifiers? They have 24" range weapons, why are you letting them get charged?

I don't know what you're talking about with this 'better safe than sorry' nonsense; look at my scenarios above, there is almost no downside to taking Razorbacks. Do you know what you gain though? Long range shooting that is usually lacking in Purifier lists.

All of your scenarios are fine and dandy, don't think I'm insulting you or your scenarios when I see them and think, "nice, but I may still lose a troop unit".

Let me put it better this way:

If you are up against a mech list with templates, you want your troops in the vehicles. If you are up against a horde list, you want your troops in the vehicles (unless tactically advantageous to be outside). If you are up against shooty lists with spread out fire, you want your troops in your vehicles...

Yes, razorbacks can carry up to 6 Purifiers. Yes, you can fire ONE psycannon out of them at a time, or decide to jump out and risk (key term here is "risk") losing an objective holding unit to simply pump 6 more bolter shots and, if it only moved 6 inches, 3 extra S7 shots. They will no longer be shooting at your Razorback, they are shooting into your valuable Purifiers.

Not to mention, if one brings Razorbacks, at least for my final list, that's 10 points extra each at a total of 40 points I cannot spend elsewhere.

Your argument is valid for an aggressive, Rambo-like player. Mine is for a defensive "force my opponent to shoot at what they don't want to shoot at" player. They don't want to shoot my Rhinos, they are only 40 points, they want what's inside and they HAVE to break it open to get to the juicy bits... and do the same for 3 other units as well.

Sword is right, the advantage of this type of list is armor saturation, you want to keep your men in the tanks as long as you can so that any non-anti tank firepower has nothing to shoot at for extended periods of time.

Psybolt Razors > Rhinos, IMO. Always.

You really think that even if you take Rhinos, some of them won't get popped, giving your opponents anti-infantry guns targets anyways?

You pay 10pts (10!!) and gain 3 TL str6 @ effective 42" range. I think that's a pretty goddamn good deal.

Drive forward, from V shapes with your razors with your Purifiers in the middle, fire away. You can limit LOS to them with your Razors, and you can't get assaulted unless the Razor gets destroyed (in which case you could be assaulted anyways as you just fell out of your awesomesauce Rhino that supposedly magically protects you from assaults).

Plus, when your guys have gotten out of those Razors, you can drive around tank shocking people and contesting objectives with them, and just generally annoying people. You wanna do that with a rhino, you'll have to get out anyways (or halve/limit your firepower entirely).

When GK gets in range with their Psycannons, they don't want to move. What point is there in halving your firepower unless absolutely necessary? (ie. you don't have LOS/range to anyone, or there's something more important to kill that you have to move to be able to shoot).

With Razors, the whole idea is to drive forward, jump out, and fire away. You shoot at half your firepower with your Psycannons for one turn, then you can light your opponent up for the rest of the game.

Just my .02

The Rhinos are not guaranteed to last, I'll give you that, but consider this:

In objective based games, where the Ven Dreads are holding objectives on my backfield popping off long range shots, my 4 Purifiers are moving up the field, and Mordrak and his Ghost Knights already in my enemy's face, where is my opponent's priorities?
1. Taking down the Ven Dread(s) holding objectives with firepower that can kill his anti-tank and vehicles?
2. Attempt to crack open the "worthless" Rhinos which are just as easy to crack open as a Razorback?
3. Or focus fire on Mordrak and hope he dies?

All three options take a lot of firepower to kill and finish off without any leftovers to return the fire back in some way.

I suspect more experienced players will likely choose the right one depending on their respective army and game type, but many players tend to focus on the Psyfledreads.

One Rhino is easy to crack open, 4 is another story, especially when every one of them has the same contents. Same goes for Razorbacks, but I see too many tactics, as I said before, that are risky, and that extra gun on top will only draw more fire to them.

I'm going to stick with the Rhinos; for lower or higher point games I would consider using a Razorback (hell, I'll be using Razorback kits to make my Rhinos so I can just swap tops anyhow), but at 2k, I see that Rhinos seem to outperform Razorbacks when used for Purifiers using my play-style.

Jabbdo wrote:Plus, when your guys have gotten out of those Razors, you can drive around tank shocking people and contesting objectives with them, and just generally annoying people. You wanna do that with a rhino, you'll have to get out anyways (or halve/limit your firepower entirely).

Just to make this clear: Rhinos running around tank shocking and contesting is not only more advantageous points-wise, but load-out-wise as well. Why in the world would I tank shock with a Razorback unless it's weapon (which was the point of taking it in the first place) has been destroyed?

zechariahsword wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:Plus, when your guys have gotten out of those Razors, you can drive around tank shocking people and contesting objectives with them, and just generally annoying people. You wanna do that with a rhino, you'll have to get out anyways (or halve/limit your firepower entirely).

Just to make this clear: Rhinos running around tank shocking and contesting is not only more advantageous points-wise, but load-out-wise as well. Why in the world would I tank shock with a Razorback unless it's weapon (which was the point of taking it in the first place) has been destroyed?

To contest an objective/make gakky LD units run/force units to move closer to let you assault? The amount of shenanigans you can pull with tank shocks is ridiculous.

The point is, you rarely want all your vehicles sitting around immobile for the whole game. If you play Rhinos, that's what you're gonna end up doing, because moving will halve your firepower, or then you'll end up disembarking anyways, in which case you might as well take the Razor because you don't need the firepoints for anything.

Jabbdo wrote:
To contest an objective/make gakky LD units run/force units to move closer to let you assault? The amount of shenanigans you can pull with tank shocks is ridiculous.

The point is, you rarely want all your vehicles sitting around immobile for the whole game. If you play Rhinos, that's what you're gonna end up doing, because moving will halve your firepower, or then you'll end up disembarking anyways, in which case you might as well take the Razor because you don't need the firepoints for anything.

Tank shocking is a very sound strategy in many situations and game types, and can be bothersome with potentially 4 tanks doing such. I never said I would never tank shock (it sounds like that is what you are assuming), but MOST of game scenarios would cause cautious players like myself to hang tight in a Rhino and shoot out of the hatch. If given the opportunity to dump my Purifiers safely and hold an objective or kill something, to send the Rhino off on a suicide Tank shocking mission, I will most certainly do so. However, if I am tank shocking, I'm probably not shooting, and if I'm shooting, I'm probably not tank shocking.

At this point, can we agree to disagree? Both vehicles have their advantages, and neither really have downsides, just depends on your play style.

woodbok wrote:
Psybolt ammo on 3 guys per squad? It is only good on maxed out termie squads.

I know that the mathammer says this kind of thing but even so, I'm building a list with 3 x 5 man interceptor squads and I'm thinking about giving them psybolt ammo cause it'll make them more effective in the role I want them for.

A 5 man purfier squad with two psycannons and 1 hammer will only have 4 Init 6 attacks if charged so that's likely to translate into 1 (two with hammerhand and a bit of luck) wounds. Not great. A GK MSU list like this relies on shooting a lot before allowing CC to happen to you - why not take psybolt ammo?

Because you have cleansing flame. 'Nuff said.

Which is great against hordes but what about 3+ save opponents? Even 4+ saves, you're looking at an average kill of only 25% if you're bang on the average dice rolls and any wounds lost in response by your 5 man squads will really hurt. Plus, Cleansing flame can't be relied upon every time - many is the time where I've failed a psychic test or even got perils and when you're playing GK and using psychic powers almost every turn, you are going to fail some.

I'll admit that psybolt ammo isn't something I base my army around but if I put together a list and after I've included everything I want to include I have another 60 points , then giving three squads psybolt ammo isn't a bad option imo.

Coteaz Henchman lists are better suited to support Dread-spam.

Puifiers and ESPECIALLY crowe don't have the sort of utility that Coteaz and a GK librarian add to Dreadspam lists.

ColdSadHungry wrote:Which is great against hordes but what about 3+ save opponents? Even 4+ saves, you're looking at an average kill of only 25% if you're bang on the average dice rolls and any wounds lost in response by your 5 man squads will really hurt. Plus, Cleansing flame can't be relied upon every time - many is the time where I've failed a psychic test or even got perils and when you're playing GK and using psychic powers almost every turn, you are going to fail some.

I'll admit that psybolt ammo isn't something I base my army around but if I put together a list and after I've included everything I want to include I have another 60 points , then giving three squads psybolt ammo isn't a bad option imo.

Halberds are force weapons... force weapons count as power weapons with the option to take a psychic test for instant kill. Unless you are referring to opponents with 3+ INVUL save, I don't see what you are worried about. Essentially, if the Psycannons don't kill something big and scary before it assaults/I assault, it will probably die from Halberds/Daemonhammer backed by Cleansing Flame.

Considering how uniform my list is, 20 pts per unit for a small upgrade in firepower per group can get expensive fast.

@Deadshane1
Why do you recommend Coteaz Henchman lists? I don't doubt you, just would like to know why.

zechariahsword wrote:

ColdSadHungry wrote:Which is great against hordes but what about 3+ save opponents? Even 4+ saves, you're looking at an average kill of only 25% if you're bang on the average dice rolls and any wounds lost in response by your 5 man squads will really hurt. Plus, Cleansing flame can't be relied upon every time - many is the time where I've failed a psychic test or even got perils and when you're playing GK and using psychic powers almost every turn, you are going to fail some.

I'll admit that psybolt ammo isn't something I base my army around but if I put together a list and after I've included everything I want to include I have another 60 points , then giving three squads psybolt ammo isn't a bad option imo.

Halberds are force weapons... force weapons count as power weapons with the option to take a psychic test for instant kill. Unless you are referring to opponents with 3+ INVUL save, I don't see what you are worried about. Essentially, if the Psycannons don't kill something big and scary before it assaults/I assault, it will probably die from Halberds/Daemonhammer backed by Cleansing Flame.

Considering how uniform my list is, 20 pts per unit for a small upgrade in firepower per group can get expensive fast.

Ah, I was just referring to the armour save from cleansing flame meaning that whilst cleansing flame is great if you have to make 20 boyz take their 5+ saves, it's a lot less effective when you're only forcing half a dozen marines take their 3+ saves when you'd probably be better off using hammerhand.

My thinking on psybolt ammo is that if you have it on 3 x 5 man interceptor squads, 4 of which in each squad have storm bolters, then that's 24 str 5 shots from them per turn which is, in my opinion, a decent investment. I realise it's better in large squads but I just disagree with the way it's very popular to completely discount it on small squads.

@ColdSadHungry

I initially had the Purifiers set up to have Psybolt ammo, but after some sound thoughts on it, decided to remove it. Psycannons are pretty dang powerful and already cost 20 pts for 2 each unit.

Trust me, I agree with you completely, if I was running anything BUT Psycannon spam in the units I would totally be all about Psybolt ammo in the troops.

There's a lot of bad mojo happening in this thread. Too much "I completely agree with you but..."

Razorbacks have zero fire points, not one.
Ork boys have a 6+ save, not a 5+.
You're better off using Hammerhand against a minimum sized MEQ squad, but you're better off using cleansing flame against a squad with higher numbers. Pretty obvious, no? Try not to over complicate things - you kill marines by making them take lots of saves.
Psybolt Ammunition is completely wasted on minimum sized units. 20 points per unit to make 3 weapons S5, are you kidding me? I don't know about you, but my GK lists don't have the points to waste on superfulous upgrades that achieve nothing. Hint: 6 x S4 will kill about the same MEQ as 6 x S5 shot, and both still suck against vehicles.

If you're taking Interceptors with Psybolt ammunition, at least be a little bit fething clever about it and take a 10 man squad - you can still combat squad to get minimum sized units, and that way you're only buying the upgrade once, not twice.

I ran a mix of 3 Rhinos and 3 Razorbacks for ard boyz and I gotta say that in the first turn or so the Razorbacks def made me a bit of a believer every game. In turn one the purifiers in rhinos moved 6 and did nothing cuz nothing was in range. The Razorbacks however moved 6 and each fired on enemy transports or whatever looked dangerous and took out weapons or immobilized transports, that in combination with 5 psyriflemen dreads and a vindicare assassin made things pretty hairy for any mech list, which we all know mech is pretty much the way to go these days.

That's actually something worth noting.

Imagine a Spearhead/Dawn of War scenario where your tanks are quite far away from your oppoents. Those S6 heavy bolters give you the ability to shoot at heavy weapons teams/long fangs/crisis suits while your Dreadnoughts/Vindicaire are taking care of transports. Against a min-max list you can use the Psyflemen to take out a Razorback and then use the heavy bolters to whittle the 5 man squad inside down. Force as many leadership/pinning checks as possible. That's the real advantage of Razorbacks here; the range. A Rhino squad would require you to be with 24" to do this, and you likely couldn't to it on the first turn either unless you get out of your rhino, where as Razorback can do it safely at 36". Now who's playing defensively?

unbeliever87 wrote:That's actually something worth noting.

Imagine a Spearhead/Dawn of War scenario where your tanks are quite far away from your oppoents. Those S6 heavy bolters give you the ability to shoot at heavy weapons teams/long fangs/crisis suits while your Dreadnoughts/Vindicaire are taking care of transports. Against a min-max list you can use the Psyflemen to take out a Razorback and then use the heavy bolters to whittle the 5 man squad inside down. Force as many leadership/pinning checks as possible. That's the real advantage of Razorbacks here; the range. A Rhino squad would require you to be with 24" to do this, and you likely couldn't to it on the first turn either unless you get out of your rhino, where as Razorback can do it safely at 36". Now who's playing defensively?

I think you are making too many assumptions in this post and the post before, you also have to consider terrain, where you will be deploying etc...

Please make suggestions on point alterations if you seriously want this list to bring Razorbacks (note: as I said before I will be using Razorback kits to build the Rhinos, so a simple top swap can make the difference). Otherwise, it's just become another "Razorbacks iz besterz than Rhinoz" tactic thread.

Deal. This list gives you more troops, a good amount of anti tank and a hell of a lot of anti-infantry for when you pop the rhino and want to kill the unit inside.

Crowe - 150
Coteaz - 100

Venerable Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 195
Venerable Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 195

Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Psykers (4), Warrior Acolyte (1), Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 94
Psykers (4), Warrior Acolyte (1), Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 94

Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 135
Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 135
Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 135
Tota: 1993

Coteaz and Crowe jump into the Psykers rides as needed. S6/Ap3 might not be much to write home about, but they're cheap as anything and should be low enough on your opponents threat radar to get a few rounds of firing in. If they die? Who cares, they're worth less than their transports.

unbeliever87 wrote:Deal. This list gives you more troops, a good amount of anti tank and a hell of a lot of anti-infantry for when you pop the rhino and want to kill the unit inside.

Crowe - 150
Coteaz - 100

Venerable Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 195
Venerable Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 195

Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Purifiers (5), 2 Psycannon, Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 190
Psykers (4), Warrior Acolyte (1), Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 94
Psykers (4), Warrior Acolyte (1), Razorback with Psybolt Ammunition - 94

Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 135
Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 135
Dreadnought, 2 TL-Autocannon, Psybolt Ammunition - 135
Tota: 1993

Coteaz and Crowe jump into the Psykers rides as needed. S6/Ap3 might not be much to write home about, but they're cheap as anything and should be low enough on your opponents threat radar to get a few rounds of firing in. If they die? Who cares, they're worth less than their transports.

I kind of like this list, although I'm going to drop two Dreads, add one Ven Dread, and upgrade the CC weapons (2x Halberds, Knight w/ Master Crafted Hammer) on the Purifiers, if you don't mind. I like to think my opponent still cringes when they realize what they have to deal with in the event they crack open a Razorback too close to their own units.

Going to be honest I never even considered using Psykers, but I see exactly why.