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I personally think that DKOK are not as fluffy as they should be, so I thought of this:

Infantry squad 60pts
Sergeant: Ws4 Bs3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 Ld9 Sv5+
Guardsman: Ws4 Bs3 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld8 Sv5+

Wargear: Lucius pattern lasgun, Flak armour, Frag grenades, Gas mask

Lucius pattern lasgun: str3 AP6 Rapid fire range 24''

Gas mask: all ranged poison weapons have a -1 modifyer when wounding, so a (4+) poison would become a (5+) poison (unless the AP of the weapon is smaller than the armour (AP5 isn't enough))

Options:
The sergeant may replace his lasgun with:
Laspistol/Close Combat weapon free
Power weapon 10pts

One guardsman may carry a vox caster for 5pts

One guardsman may replace his Lasgun with:
Flamer 5pts
Grenade launcher 5pts
Meltagun 10pts
Plasma Gun 15pts

The entire squad may have krak grenades for 10pts

Special rules:
Extreme devotion: basically this is ATSKNF with a diffirent name
Hardened fighters: +1 WS (already included in profile)
Use of equipment: All guardsmen in the unit have the Look Out Argh! for special weapons and sergeants (this shows that guardsmen take the fallen troopers equipment and makes better use of it)

The squad cost could be a bit more, but I left it at 60 for you guys to raise it.

I like these new rules, but you simply can't jam them on and say "just raise the price" as you have to remember, these are still just Guardsmen: They will die just as easily as non DKKs, and raising their cost won't especially change this. Therefore, removing some rules (I recommend Use of Equipment) and leaving the points at 60. Also, the second section of the Gas Mask rule is a tad confusing: I like the rule, but I feel that the second section is just unnecessary.

Isnt "Use of Equipment" redundant since 95% of the time, you're the one who is assigning wounds? Only useful if you take +10 wounds and even then it probably wont matter by that point or even moreso if they're blobbed (I assume these are a replacement for platoons). This also makes extreme devotion a bit redundant since most platoons run commissars and the fact that you gave the sergeant ld 9. I'd drop those two special rules, I think the AP6, WS4, already buffed leadership, and gasmasks quickly add those points in.

On the other hand I am more in favor of Iron Discipline and Die Hards for their special rules. Only thing I really like here is the gasmask rule but even then why dont Space Marines have this rule? Surely the power armor's helmet is much more advance than a simple gasmask. Not to mention all the other races with advanced armor, heck even storm troopers usually are equipped with some of the best gear for IG

The reason the gas mask rule isn't on Space Marines or anyone else is because the gas mask rule makes no sense.

Poisoned weapons don't impact you and then make you inhale them. It's poison going straight into the bloodstream.

Plus I would think that Dark Eldar make sure their poisons are very lethal! In fact I think the only gas related weapon is the Miasma with tyranids and thats not even poison (well DKoK do use gas grenades but dont see that very often)

kenshin620 wrote:Isnt "Use of Equipment" redundant since 95% of the time, you're the one who is assigning wounds? Only useful if you take +10 wounds and even then it probably wont matter by that point or even moreso if they're blobbed (I assume these are a replacement for platoons). This also makes extreme devotion a bit redundant since most platoons run commissars and the fact that you gave the sergeant ld 9. I'd drop those two special rules, I think the AP6, WS4, already buffed leadership, and gasmasks quickly add those points in.

On the other hand I am more in favor of Iron Discipline and Die Hards for their special rules. Only thing I really like here is the gasmask rule but even then why dont Space Marines have this rule? Surely the power armor's helmet is much more advance than a simple gasmask. Not to mention all the other races with advanced armor, heck even storm troopers usually are equipped with some of the best gear for IG

If you get 10 wounds, you have to allocate one on each member of the squad.
If a special weapons guy dies, you just remove another model.

Gas Mask: On second thought... I'll edit the special rules a bit.

Gas mask is one of those things that many units in the game "should" have, but since there are not really rules for gas attacks, does not exist.

Use of equipment is a rule that most armies "should" have, but remember, sometimes a model will die in a way that renders his weapon useless, and it can't just be scooped up by a comrade. Wound allocation already allows for all "pick up his gun" cases.

The AP6 lasguns are fluffy but basically useless, it would be nice as an army wide special rule.


I'd stick to making rules based on their training/leadership, rather than equipment that many other regiments might also make use of.

ph34r wrote:Gas mask is one of those things that many units in the game "should" have, but since there are not really rules for gas attacks, does not exist.

Use of equipment is a rule that most armies "should" have, but remember, sometimes a model will die in a way that renders his weapon useless, and it can't just be scooped up by a comrade. Wound allocation already allows for all "pick up his gun" cases.

The AP6 lasguns are fluffy but basically useless, it would be nice as an army wide special rule.


I'd stick to making rules based on their training/leadership, rather than equipment that many other regiments might also make use of.

I got the ''use of equipment'' rule from the book called dead men walking, where the Kreig tossed their Meltaguns to another guardsman before getting evaporated by Gauss fire.

sluggaslugga wrote:

ph34r wrote:Gas mask is one of those things that many units in the game "should" have, but since there are not really rules for gas attacks, does not exist.

Use of equipment is a rule that most armies "should" have, but remember, sometimes a model will die in a way that renders his weapon useless, and it can't just be scooped up by a comrade. Wound allocation already allows for all "pick up his gun" cases.

The AP6 lasguns are fluffy but basically useless, it would be nice as an army wide special rule.


I'd stick to making rules based on their training/leadership, rather than equipment that many other regiments might also make use of.

I got the ''use of equipment'' rule from the book called dead men walking, where the Kreig tossed their Meltaguns to another guardsman before getting evaporated by Gauss fire.

And what ph34r is saying is that wound allocation already allows for it.

Kanluwen wrote:

sluggaslugga wrote:

ph34r wrote:Gas mask is one of those things that many units in the game "should" have, but since there are not really rules for gas attacks, does not exist.

Use of equipment is a rule that most armies "should" have, but remember, sometimes a model will die in a way that renders his weapon useless, and it can't just be scooped up by a comrade. Wound allocation already allows for all "pick up his gun" cases.

The AP6 lasguns are fluffy but basically useless, it would be nice as an army wide special rule.


I'd stick to making rules based on their training/leadership, rather than equipment that many other regiments might also make use of.

I got the ''use of equipment'' rule from the book called dead men walking, where the Kreig tossed their Meltaguns to another guardsman before getting evaporated by Gauss fire.

And what ph34r is saying is that wound allocation already allows for it.

If the squad gets enough wounds, you have to allocate atleast 1 wound for every guy.

Yes but most IG squads dont care about that. Either they're vets in a chimera or they're an infantry blob with plenty of bodies to go through before special weapons/commissars/sergeants have to take a wound

And if you took anough wounds like that, chances are you're gonna lose a lot of the guardsmen anyways that the squad would be either running for their lives or all dead

kenshin620 wrote:Yes but most IG squads dont care about that. Either they're vets in a chimera or they're an infantry blob with plenty of bodies to go through before special weapons/commissars/sergeants have to take a wound

And if you took anough wounds like that, chances are you're gonna lose a lot of the guardsmen anyways that the squad would be either running for their lives or all dead

Exactly! so the rule is a very small bonus for the Krieg which they need.

OT: read ''Dead Men Walking'' awesome book

Why would they need it? Unless you're saying they cant be blobbed which would make them not all that very useful compared to normal IG platoons and the FW lists

kenshin620 wrote:Why would they need it? Unless you're saying they cant be blobbed which would make them not all that very useful compared to normal IG platoons and the FW lists

Krieg can't actually have combined squads... so, yes they can have Blobs, but they can't have ''Big Blobs''.

I get the ws4 and the rules and stuff, but why the AP6 las-gun all las-guns can punch through most armour on high powerd setting the profile uses the lower setting as to conseve ammo for the whole battle

JamesMclaren123 wrote:I get the ws4 and the rules and stuff, but why the AP6 las-gun all las-guns can punch through most armour on high powerd setting the profile uses the lower setting as to conseve ammo for the whole battle

Lucius pattern lasgun have a stronger core, but each mag has only 25 shots...

sluggaslugga wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:I get the ws4 and the rules and stuff, but why the AP6 las-gun all las-guns can punch through most armour on high powerd setting the profile uses the lower setting as to conseve ammo for the whole battle

Lucius pattern lasgun have a stronger core, but each mag has only 25 shots...

I remember reading in the Guants ghosts that on the high power setting i punched through power armour but only had like 15 shots or somthing

Why are you trying to make these guys so awesome? Cadians are meant to be nails as well. I don't entirely understand the AP6, since it only affects Orks AFAIK, and it sounds a bit like a guardsman unit with higher WS and AP6 weaponary is being geared against Orks/Nids.

From what I know, the DKoK are basically normal guard, but with WW1 stylings and an extreme disregard for life. It seems that basically what you want are a guard squad with a special rule for casualties - something like "May rally even if below half-strength" would seem about right. Minor boost, does the trick, doesn't unbalance them too much. The trick to remember, I believe, is that whilst the DKoK may be presented as unstoppable in their fluff, the whole point of the guard is that they are normal guys in a game full of superhumans, alien psychos and daemons. Making them somehow ultra-tough with the gasmask thing works against that, thematically.

Charles Rampant wrote:Why are you trying to make these guys so awesome? Cadians are meant to be nails as well. I don't entirely understand the AP6, since it only affects Orks AFAIK, and it sounds a bit like a guardsman unit with higher WS and AP6 weaponary is being geared against Orks/Nids.

From what I know, the DKoK are basically normal guard, but with WW1 stylings and an extreme disregard for life. It seems that basically what you want are a guard squad with a special rule for casualties - something like "May rally even if below half-strength" would seem about right. Minor boost, does the trick, doesn't unbalance them too much. The trick to remember, I believe, is that whilst the DKoK may be presented as unstoppable in their fluff, the whole point of the guard is that they are normal guys in a game full of superhumans, alien psychos and daemons. Making them somehow ultra-tough with the gasmask thing works against that, thematically.

Well... here are a Kriegsmans normal stats:

Ws4
Bs3
S3
T3
W1
I 3
A1
Ld7
Sv5+

Wargear: Flak armour, Lasgun

Special Rules:
Die-Hards: They don't take any negative modifyers when losing CC
Hardened fighters: Ws +1 (already included in profile)
Iron discipline: A squad may regroup even if below half strength if there is an officer (of any rank) within 6'' of them

Die-Hards: They don't take any negative modifyers when losing CC

I don't have my book to hand at the moment, but isn't that the USR Stubborn? Either way, I'd say that the three upgrades would probably add at least a third to their cost, since guard are cheap to begin with. Consider that Orks who are given a 4+ armour, as compared to a 6+, cost nearly double (6 points -> 11 points) with no other benefits.

Charles Rampant wrote:

Die-Hards: They don't take any negative modifyers when losing CC

I don't have my book to hand at the moment, but isn't that the USR Stubborn? Either way, I'd say that the three upgrades would probably add at least a third to their cost, since guard are cheap to begin with. Consider that Orks who are given a 4+ armour, as compared to a 6+, cost nearly double (6 points -> 11 points) with no other benefits.

Yes, but I just wrote what says in the Siege Regiment codex.

I agree with sluggasslugga i collect DKOK and think they could do with a bit of fluffing. I like the lasgun idea and the ATSKNF.

After reading Dead men Walking i have come up with these proposed rules
90 Points per Squad
Sergeant: Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv5+
Guardsman: Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld9 Sv5+

Lucius pattern lasgun: str4 AP4 or 5 single shot

Special rules:
Extreme devotion: basically this is ATSKNF with a diffirent name
Hardened fighters: +1 WS (already included in profile)
No Emotion or Feelings: This allows them to target close combats containing there own troops(Reason for this) in the book that's all they do against the Necrons they send a squad of ten men forward to delay them then shoot the hell out of the lot.
Extreme Discipline: Gives +1 to there BS skill due to there intense training and +1 to there initiative (already included in profile)

Please tell me what you think?
Thanks

Seems pretty good to me.
Although it still should include the ''throwing weapons to each other'' rule. Remember what the Grenadiers did with the meltaguns before being killed?


OT:How'd you like the book?

ahh yes i do there needs to be something along those lines to give them that edge!


OT: I loved the book really good i love the way the Death Korps are shown to be. There so awesome Haha

sluggaslugga wrote:

kenshin620 wrote:Why would they need it? Unless you're saying they cant be blobbed which would make them not all that very useful compared to normal IG platoons and the FW lists

Krieg can't actually have combined squads... so, yes they can have Blobs, but they can't have ''Big Blobs''.

Yes they can.

Infantry squads have the Combined Squads rule in the current version of the Kreig army list.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Imperial Spartan wrote:ahh yes i do there needs to be something along those lines to give them that edge!

Because blob squads with twelve power fists isn't enough?

I didn't see it anywhere...

Infantry squad entry - special rules. The first one is "combined squads".

Scott-S6 wrote:Infantry squad entry - special rules. The first one is "combined squads".

Cool! I couldn't find it because I didn't expect for it to be a regularly stated special rule...
Thanks for the enlightenment.