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I have been toying with the idea of doing a Space Marine army, but have decided that if I am going to do one then I would like to do a Pre-Heresy Word Bearers force. As I would like the list to fit the fluff in terms of the equipment that I give the army, I only want to use units, vehicles and equipment that would have been available, say 20 years before the Dropsite Massacre on Isstavan V. I have managed to scrape together a list of some of the units and equipment that would have been available at the time this list is not extensive as I have only read 2 of the books from the Horus Heresy series thus far:

Stormbird (Stormraven)

Land Raider

Predator

Tactical Squads

Assault Squads

Terminator Squads

Dreadnoughts

Thunderhawks (although I have no intention of using one)

Power Swords

Does anyone know of any other pieces of equipment or units from Codex: Space Marines or any of the other MEQ codexes that would have available directly previous to the Dropsite Massacre?

Thanks.

Stormbird as a Stormraven is so completely and utterly wrong that it's not even funny.

A Stormbird could carry an entire company of Astartes.

Everything else is fairly workable.

Glancing through Visions of War

Rhino APC

Servitors

Bikes and Attack Bikes

Jet Bikes (may need to adapt the rules for the remaining Dark Angels one)

you couldn't use certain heavy weapons in your force.

No infantry mounted Multi-meltas as they weren't perfected until after the heresy.

No assault cannons on anything, they were developed after the heresy,

No LRCs or LRRs as those were discovered after the heresy. so that means only regular old Landraiders.

Avoid TH/SS terminators. I assume that because the Chaos codex doesn't have TH/SS option that means they didn't really have these as equipment. stick with tactical terminators(a good option, remember that they are a shooty unit)

No Razorbacks(again, invented after the HH)

Chaplains would be very fluffy for a Word Bearers list,

Librarians are iffy. you could say you are doing a list from before the Council of Nikea but thats it.

in Galaxy in Flames Lord Commander Eidolon uses a thunder hammer IIRC.

thunderhammers yes, but Storm Shields are iffy.

of course this could simply be codex creep showing itself. Chaos Terminators with MoT were, at the time of release, better then SS terminators because they got the 4++ all the time.

Grey Templar wrote:

No assault cannons on anything, they were developed after the heresy,

Not strictly true, the Baal predator STC was discovered by the blood angels during the great crusade which was equipped with assault cannons, although it may be assumed that only BA legion would have access to it.

Yeah, and we all know reverse engeneering is frowned upon in the 41st millenium.


basically, look at equipment options in the Chaos Codex(not anything daemonic of course) and that will tell you what was avaliable during the crusade.

Kanluwen wrote:Stormbird as a Stormraven is so completely and utterly wrong that it's not even funny.

A Stormbird could carry an entire company of Astartes.

Everything else is fairly workable.

Ok, sorry. I just finished reading 'The First Heretic' and thought that I'd made a connection between Stormbird and Stormraven, and my lack of much Imperial knowledge here really showed. Thanks for pointing this out, otherwise I'd probably have been trying to field Stormravens in a Pre-Heresy force.

Thanks for the info guys this is really helpful.

The Stormraven took its name from the fact that Forge World was going to actually produce something similar for Imperial Armour Volume 8, as a kind of 'Scout insertion vehicle' that was uparmored and had a stealth field of sorts.

Then GW pretty much took the idea and then created the Stormraven.

Also, assault cannons are kosher,

theres a bit in A Thousand Sons where one of the characters is having an internal monologue about how the Thousand Sons prefer to use Reaper autocannons instead of the newly developed assault cannons because they have a cooler name.

Terminators in general were a lot rarer back then. The armor was only recently introduced.

somecallmeJack wrote:Also, assault cannons are kosher,

theres a bit in A Thousand Sons where one of the characters is having an internal monologue about how the Thousand Sons prefer to use Reaper autocannons instead of the newly developed assault cannons because they have a cooler name.

Well, sorta.

In the mainline of 40k, assault cannons weren't introduced until long after the Heresy.

In the Abnett-verse, they were around during the Heresy.

It's just one of the many inconsistencies between the two.

I didnt know that. My bad.

Despite being originally produced by the loyalists, Vindicators are were in use by the traitors at the Siege of Terra, so they're in. Land Speeders might be iffy. I know they were discovered in the same millenium as the Heresy, but I can't recall seeing them in any of the Horus Heresy novels.

Just have a look at the weapon options available in the chaos codex, some marine stuff like storm bolters, assault cannon etc aren't available. You can borrow it if you like?

Land Speeders are also ok, Emperor's Children used them in "Fulgrim", despite the usual mantra that Heretics didn't have access to Land Speeders.

The reason the traitors don't really have Land Speeders now is because they are sensitive machines that need careful maintanance. something the traitors don't have access to.

Grey Templar wrote:The reason the traitors don't really have Land Speeders now is because they are sensitive machines that need careful maintanance. something that most traitors don't have access to.

There are some traitors backed with the dark mechanicus

Soladrin wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The reason the traitors don't really have Land Speeders now is because they are sensitive machines that need careful maintanance. something that most traitors don't have access to.

There are some traitors backed with the dark mechanicus

Like Iron Warriors.

Can't imagine them having problems with supporting Land Speeders.

It doesn't really fit in with their style of warfare.

Why? Even Iron Warriors have need of scouts.

I'm sure they have bikes, which are far easier to replace and repair then a Landspeeder.

Also a lot slower and incapable of crossing some terrain.

And more durable.

Alkasyn wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:The reason the traitors don't really have Land Speeders now is because they are sensitive machines that need careful maintanance. something that most traitors don't have access to.

There are some traitors backed with the dark mechanicus

Like Iron Warriors.

Can't imagine them having problems with supporting Land Speeders.

True enough, but GW likes to give Chaos the shaft