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If a unit of blood letters has icon of endless war, which I believe adds d6 to the charge range, and is under the effects of BRINOA'S TIME WAAaaarp.... it has an average charge range of 20.5 inches and they charge a unit of lets say night goblins with short bows from the 20 inches and they have 18 inch range on their bows do the night goblins still get a stand and shoot reaction? The stand and shoot reaction is suppose to be worked out before moving the chargers.

Pg. 17 of the BRB says: A Stand and Shoot reaction can be declared against an enemy unit that starts its charge outside the firing unit's maximum range- the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon.

So they would be at -2 to hit? 1 for the stand and shoot and 1 for max range?

I think what is assumed here is that if the Mv of the unit charging is more than the actual distance, then the enemy gets a Stand and Shoot and the charging unit moves foward until they are in range of the unit being charged with their ranged weapons.

They do not necessarily have to move into range, but they are assumed to have done so just to make the rule feasible.

Hargus56 wrote:So they would be at -2 to hit? 1 for the stand and shoot and 1 for max range?

Thanks for the answers guys what about this question.

Bengrold already quoted the relevant rule. The shooting is resolved as being just within maximum range of the shooting units shortest ranged weapon.

Most of the time this means the -1 penalty to long range. Some units do not suffer range penalties, and some combinations of weapons can muddy the waters. For example, if its a unit of Dwarf Gunners led by a champ with a brace of pistols, the shooting will be resolved at short range for most of the unit. Under most circumstances you are going to be resolving the shooting with a -2 penalty.

Lehnsherr wrote:Bengrold already quoted the relevant rule. The shooting is resolved as being just within maximum range of the shooting units shortest ranged weapon.

Most of the time this means the -1 penalty to long range. Some units do not suffer range penalties, and some combinations of weapons can muddy the waters. For example, if its a unit of Dwarf Gunners led by a champ with a brace of pistols, the shooting will be resolved at short range for most of the unit. Under most circumstances you are going to be resolving the shooting with a -2 penalty.

Just to be clear, when the Thunderers Fire, they ALL count as being within 12". The champ is at long range (because his pistols have a 12" range) and everyone else fires at short.

This is so effective, I started doing it with my shades; Assassin with rending stars (12") and repeating crossbows firing at short range. It packs a whallop.

-Matt

Except pistols dont have a long range, unless ive missed something...

With dwarves you add the rune of slowing the enemy down, and with an anvil messing their M value up you often get a few turns of shooting at them...

Bengrold Stonefist wrote:Pg. 17 of the BRB says: A Stand and Shoot reaction can be declared against an enemy unit that starts its charge outside the firing unit's maximum range- the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon.

So if you have a unit of Repeater Crossbowmen with a character who has a handbow in it, do the crossbows not suffer the long range penalty since the long range of the handbow is within the short range of the repeater crossbow?

That is my understanding, yes. It's made me consider adding a Warlock Engineer w/ Warplock Pistol to a unit of Jezzails.

streamdragon wrote:That is my understanding, yes. It's made me consider adding a Warlock Engineer w/ Warplock Pistol to a unit of Jezzails.

That's pretty dang funny. I need to pass this idea to the local Skaven who loves his Jezzails.

Yep, have done it with Empire as well on Outriders. Give the champion a repeater pistol so that the rest shoot at short range.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except pistols dont have a long range, unless ive missed something...

I believe you have. You may be thinking of a prior edition. Pistols now have armor piercing and quick to fire. Quick to fire has some notes about stand and shoot (can always do so) and moving and firing (no penalty for doing so) but no modifications to penalties for long range.

Ah fair enough - they didnt used to have a long range

but what if I have an Engineer with a Pistol and a Repeater Handgun? can I still use the Repeater Handguns short range just by holding a holstered pistol as my shortest range weapon?

Lotet wrote:but what if I have an Engineer with a Pistol and a Repeater Handgun? can I still use the Repeater Handguns short range just by holding a holstered pistol as my shortest range weapon?

Hey, my handgunners have a monkey on one of the bases.
Monkey's can't throw poo very far, so can my handgunners fire at short range?

NO.

-Matt

Hey, my handgunners are led by Sergent Monkey
Monkey's can't throw poo very far, so can my handgunners fire at short range?

YES.

how about a proper answer for my question? the pistol is the shortest ranged weapon and it leads me to that conclusion unless I missed a single word that would specify otherwise.

Except youre not firing the pistol. Youre firing the handgun. So the shortest range weapon that is firing, is the handgun

fine, I suppose using the Pistol as some rangefinder is almost like saying "look, my swod has a range of 'combat' so everything is short range!"

but I assume that a Captain with a Bow and a Pistol can still say "I'm firing with my pistol, shortrange for all"

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except youre not firing the pistol. Youre firing the handgun. So the shortest range weapon that is firing, is the handgun

But page 17 doesn't say anything about the shortest range weapon that's firing, it just says "...- the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon."

Its really funny that im taking commercial law now and in the first few weeks we learnt why courts look at the purpose of the law and not the literal meaning most of the time.

Just think about the purpose of the rule. Anything else is trying to get an advantage via rules lawyering.

Verd - context tells you that means "that is firing" - otherwise your shortest ranged weapon is always a hand weapon.

Question - Arguments for RAI here are often countered by RAW quotes. Was just pointing out that the RAW didn't specify "that is firing" (surprised someone didn't beat me to it ).

I should have clarified that I wouldn't try to pull this (taking a pistol for the range and actually firing another weapon), because I actually agree with nos. But somebody is going to argue it.

Yea well chances are that anyone trying to argue RAW like that seriously isnt someone you want to play anyway...