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Now I know this might cause me to be accused of Heresy, but are chimeras really necessary?

My main tactic includes running two or three Leman Russ variants up the board with two chimeras full of Plasma and Melta Vets in tow. (I've also got an outflanking Valkyrie with a Melta CCS and Marbo to show up during the game to cause trouble and draw attention away from the column) I've always thought that the whole reason for sticking vets in transports in the first place was to increase their survivability, but with it's side and rear armor of 10, the damn thing has a tendency to explode, at times taking enough men with it to force a leadership test. Would it be better to drop the Chimeras, and buy the Grenadiers upgrade, giving them a +4 save and saving 25 points on each unit?

The thing about chimeras is because they are not used for bringing the fight to the enemy. You have Valkyries or Vendettas for that.

Im weirded out tho that with your wall of russes, why would your chimera's side armors be exposed?

I think it is at least equally an issue of speed and extra dakka than just survivability. Also, for what they are, chimeras are a steal at 55 pts. Vet chimera spam is only possible because the chimeras are quite underpriced.

Chimera's are useful for several reasons.

1) Survivability. In the Chimera, nothing less than S6 can hurt the Vets. If you've got Russes, it's a fair bet that most of the enemies heavier anti tank fire will be at the Russes, and/or the Vendetta. Yes, Chimeras are vulnerable to most antitank weapons, but think about all the things that they're proof against? Heavy bolters, regular small arms, all these things that are usually useless against the Chimera's will be turned against your foot slogging vets, and even 4+ armor isn't going to stop the hail of fire that'll be coming in to you.

And that's not even talking about any assaulting forces....


2) Speed. Vets on the groun can move 6" a turn, with a 1/6" of a chance to move 12", and are going to be slowed by any terrain. Chimeras can reliably move 12" a turn, and only have a 1/6 chance of beings stopped by terrain.

Combining the benefits of increased speed with the Chimera, and decreased protection with the Vets footslogging (even with carapace), I find Chimeras to be very vital to the mech guard strategy.

To add to the others...
In the shooting phase,
Chimeras are sort of a 3 part defense for the Vets. Obscured chimeras give it a cover save, then your opponent has to score a penetrating hit against AV12 or 10, then he/she has to score a 5-6 on the damage table before reaching your vets.
In assault,
You could cruise away to safety or move and shoot before getting assaulted therefore reducing their hits. and yeah still penetrate on AV10, and of course the damage table...if it explodes you'll also take some of them with you. By then you have just delayed the opponent a precious assault turn.

Pretty much yeah they're necessary and probably the reason chimera spam makes IG a competitive army.

Chimera's really require numbers to work. and their cheap cost for what you get makes that possable.

multiple chimeras side by side will leave nothing but Av12 to the enemy. you can then have Russes on the flanks.

Chimera's also have a decent amount of shooting to offer. Multi-lasers are good against infantry and the hull weapon can be kitted to your pleasure. it has these guns and the 6 fire points without sacrificing transport capacity.

if my space marines could take Chimeras instead of Rhinos I would do it in a heartbeat.

To follow up on Grey Templar, your two chimeras is really not enough to see the effect. Three is bare minimum at about 1500 points. Above that, your really want six or more.

Most armies just don't pack enough firepower to kill more than a couple of chimeras while still dealing with the rest of your stuff.

Every time I have faced vets in chimeras, i get hammered by them. They are a big nuisance when combined with heavier armor like leman russes. They hammer away with meltas at whatever I am trying to assault them with. Even if i blow the tank up, some vets will live and continue shooting at least for a turn. Ive had two daemon princes wailing on a chimera before, and it still wouldnt blow up for a whole turn, letting the vets inside deal wounds. On top of all that, you get a couple of extra guns shooting from the chimera itself, and it puts a strain on your enemy's roster. I HAVE to run a trygon prime along with my 18" hive guard and zoanthropes just because all the IG guys I play with use chimeras so much, and park them on objectives or keep them in position to rush into a vulnerable spot.

I personally like using vets kitted out with shotguns and flamers inside chimeras with hull mounted flamers when facing nids and orks. Works wonders on mobs, especially if they're mobs of hormagaunts.

I'd assume a tailored list would deal with nids and orks pretty well, yeah.

As for the topic at hand for OP, 1500 run 4, 3 with plasma, 1 with meltas, multi-laser/heavy flamers for versatility. Add 2 hydras, a medusa or basilisk, a few vendettas, and you're a really bastardly force to deal with.

IMO Chimeras are a vital part of the IG strategy. they give you manouvrability and protection with quite a bit of firepower for 55 points, with the exception of the valkyrie/vendetta they are the most underpriced thing in the codex (especialy since they cost 70 points in 4th ed and were worse).

as has been stated, you should realy bring chimeras in groups of no less than 3, one for your ccs and 2 for the vets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
besides that (assuming your running 1000 pnt list) i would drop marbo and any sponsons you have on the russ' and get another squad of something nasty .

alternatively you could drop the russes and go with more chimeras or chimera chasis (ie hellhound vairants, hydras, artillery) though ymmv depending on who your oponent is and which particular vairants you take. there are some traps for young players in there so be carefull (ie collosus looks like it'll kill anything short of terminators, problem being it has a big minimum range, reason it used to be for apocalypse).

They're absolutely necessary for Veterans IMO. At 1,850 I'm running 5 Chimeras, and at 2,000 I'm running 7. This doesn't even count the 5 Chimera-chassis vehicles that support them.

In the current ruleset, and at their current price, it's very hard to _not_ take them. Survivability, firepower, and mobility all for 55 points? It's a no-brainer.

IMHO, the Medusa is rather short ranged, leaving it vulnerable, or out of the game for the first 2 turns.

For OP: Yes, the Chimeras are essential for all those nasty vets, but a huge IG gun-line of basic troops is not a bad alternative if you would rather be static. By using Commissars wisely and combing squads, you can have a gun line loaded with dozens of heavy weapons, that will in most cases never run.

I love running non-Blob infantry, and just letting the enemy wade into my field of fire. At 2000 points, you can take over 200 Guardsmen, and still have room for plenty of tanky goodness, and load those platoons with Lascannons and HB (separated into different combined squads, of course). While not as accurate as your vets, they can become much more lethal with the proper use of orders. I feel the reason most people load their vets into Chimeras, is that it makes the unit largely MEQ! The Vets can't die while inside and they are BS4...a refuge for players who are not comfortable playing Infantry IG like they are IG and taking full advantage of their spiffy new rules.

That being said, I have run with the Mech Vets and done well, but IG has always been for me, about loading the table with infantry, and making sure my opponent thinks, "Wow, there is no way I can kill all of that. And he has dozens of scoring units to boot!"

Kentucky-Irregulars wrote:IMHO, the Medusa is rather short ranged, leaving it vulnerable, or out of the game for the first 2 turns.

36" gun plus a 6" move is short range? You have pretty exacting standards for range, sir. Stick it behind a Chimera near your deployment line and you can cover plenty of table while having cover. If your Medusas are "out of the game" for the first 2 turns you seriously need to rethink how you're deploying them.

As for Chimeras, if you're running Veterans or Infantry Squads with short-ranged weapons, they're necessary. If you're running infantry blobs and HWS, then they're definitely not. Guard get by just fine without Chimeras, honestly I think that most just aren't willing to play foot Guard for logistical or cost reasons. I know that's what discouraged me.

As a Guard player who really like using Veterans I would say that I find Chimeras invaluable. Not only can they drive your scoring units to where they need to be, but they are also good as command vehicles or for offering protection to units you really don't want getting caught in the open such as psykers. I prefer to keep them cheap by equipping them with the multilaser and heavy flamer so I don't have to pay extra. For 55 points you're getting a couple of decent extra weapons, speed, armour and those extremely useful fire points.

Foot guard is slow and extremely vulnerable in CC. The only way to really compensate for that is power blobs, but they are still slow and struggle against armor. Infantry gunlines are extremely vulnerable to alot of lists and don't handle objectives well.

Chimeras offer mobility, increased durability, and additional fire support. They pair very well with vets (who don't need orders to be effective, but can still benefit from them, thanks to BS 4) special weapons and the large number of fire points. They can also shield other units and funnel assaults if necessary. Thus, they are extremely popular in competitive lists.

As a Tau player, with the 85 point Devilfish, I laugh at your complaints...

KestrelM1 wrote:

Kentucky-Irregulars wrote:IMHO, the Medusa is rather short ranged, leaving it vulnerable, or out of the game for the first 2 turns.

36" gun plus a 6" move is short range? You have pretty exacting standards for range, sir. Stick it behind a Chimera near your deployment line and you can cover plenty of table while having cover. If your Medusas are "out of the game" for the first 2 turns you seriously need to rethink how you're deploying them.

2 Things were going on here: first of all, I'd forgotten the ordnance rules had changed, so that 6" of movement helps a little now. Secondly, if I cannot touch most of the board from my deployment zone... then no, I'm not happy. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but in my experience, everyone who has a unit vulnerable to a S10 blast also has the mobility to stay out of its range for a long time. IG aren't exactly known for being quick on their feet, especially foot IG.

KestrelM1 wrote:As for Chimeras, if you're running Veterans or Infantry Squads with short-ranged weapons, they're necessary. If you're running infantry blobs and HWS, then they're definitely not. Guard get by just fine without Chimeras, honestly I think that most just aren't willing to play foot Guard for logistical or cost reasons. I know that's what discouraged me.

Well said.

jmurph wrote:Foot guard is slow and extremely vulnerable in CC. The only way to really compensate for that is power blobs, but they are still slow and struggle against armor. Infantry gunlines are extremely vulnerable to alot of lists and don't handle objectives well.

Chimeras offer mobility, increased durability, and additional fire support. They pair very well with vets (who don't need orders to be effective, but can still benefit from them, thanks to BS 4) special weapons and the large number of fire points. They can also shield other units and funnel assaults if necessary. Thus, they are extremely popular in competitive lists.

It is slow, yes, but while the front rank may be vulnerable to CC, what about the 3 or 4 ranks behind that one? No IG squad will survive that first round of combat, leaving whomever assaulted me wide open... point blank... in front of the entire gun line.

Game. Over.

Not to be a jerk, but aren't we supposed to be talking about Chimeras? lol