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HQ
Njal
Rune Priest: Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath
Troops
3x 7GH: MG, MotW, Banner, Rhino
1x 5GH: MG Razorback TLAC
1x 5GH: Flamer Razorback TLAC
Elites
Wolf Guard: 4x Combimelta/Powerfist 1x TDA w/ CML
Heavy Support
6 Long Fangs: 5 ML Las/Plas Razorback
2x6 Long Fangs: 2 LC 3 ML Las/Plas Razorbacks
Fast
Land Speeder MM/TML
Land Speeder MM/TML
2x Land Speeders MM/TML

68 Models 2500 points on the nose.
21 Missiles/7 Las Cannons a turn, 5 Scoring Units, and the best Anti-Psyker tech in the game (Njal). So what are the weaknesses, how would the other Ard Boyz net lists beat it? CC welcome.

horde/nids would give you some trouble orkz too, possibly paladin heavy grey knights

I think 21 Frag missiles a turn will handle the hordes just fine. Paladin Heavy GK are a definite issue with this list, then again it is for any list right now except Purifier spam GK and Plasma Vet heavy IG.

Any suggestions on how I could improve the list to counter Paladin GK?

I would use 2 more rune priests rather than Njal and you the extra 75 pts to equip them.
Njal can only use one shooting attack and most of sw physic powers are shooting, 5/7 are shooting.
The only thing i can see to be a bonus for Njal will only be useful if you rush up into your opponents with allot of 18" and a 12" which leaves him vulnerable to counter attack.
http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/search/label/Njal%20Stormcaller for more info
edit: grammer, and link

Overall, I think your list is pretty solid all around; however, there are some fine tuning issues that need to be addressed.

1) The CML Terminator is quite a bit too costly for my taste. Add in the 4th Combi-melta/power fist Wolf Guard and you're at 107 points that could be used elsewhere.

2) The Melta on the razor hunters seems unnecessary really and should probably be exchanged for a flamer.

3) 4 Lascannons for your Long Fangs is a bit much. Consider 2 plasma cannons instead of the last 2mission lascannons as they are a godsend against Draigo armies.

4) 21 missiles is fancy and all but I think you could stand to lose 4 and replace the two single typhoons with mm/hf speeders.

At this point you've saved a lot of points, got a little better luck with Terminator armies and you can afford the 6th troop that you know you want.

The real questions are more about how you will play. This is more important than your list. Anyone can write a list, its another question about how it will play!

Where will you stick your traitor? How will that squad help to keep him alive?

How do you plan on grabbing objectives? Will you be just moving your grey hunters forward? Who will sit on your back objective on mission 2?

What are your plans to prevent your speeders from getting quickly killed on the missions where it gives an extra battle point?

What is the role of the wofl guard? How can they be used to be a hammer?

How do you plan on taking down heavy armor armies like mech'dar?

What are your overall strategy for the missions?

What are your plans on how to deal with the armies out there? Go through each of the armies and make a basic plan on how to taclke them.
IG, SW, C:SM, CSM, Orks, 'Nids, GK, etc....

Unholy_Martyr wrote:Overall, I think your list is pretty solid all around; however, there are some fine tuning issues that need to be addressed.

1) The CML Terminator is quite a bit too costly for my taste. Add in the 4th Combi-melta/power fist Wolf Guard and you're at 107 points that could be used elsewhere.
The CML Terminator takes the place of the 5th PF Combimelta WG. I don't have a 5th WG for the flamer squad because the traitor will go in this RB and hide.
2) The Melta on the razor hunters seems unnecessary really and should probably be exchanged for a flamer.
Noted, I will probably change that.
3) 4 Lascannons for your Long Fangs is a bit much. Consider 2 plasma cannons instead of the last 2mission lascannons as they are a godsend against Draigo armies.
PC have never performed well for me. My opponents are smart and always keep their guys 2 inches apart when players field PC. I also disagree that a PC is better than a LC against Palagins. The LC kills a Paladin, PC only cause a single wound.
4) 21 missiles is fancy and all but I think you could stand to lose 4 and replace the two single typhoons with mm/hf speeders.
I am not so sure about this either, the HF isn't any better than the TML, I save points but lose effectiveness.
At this point you've saved a lot of points, got a little better luck with Terminator armies and you can afford the 6th troop that you know you want.

labmouse42 wrote:The real questions are more about how you will play. This is more important than your list. Anyone can write a list, its another question about how it will play!

Where will you stick your traitor? How will that squad help to keep him alive?
The traitor goes with the squad that has no WG and will hide. Our FLGS has plenty of tall terrain.
How do you plan on grabbing objectives? Will you be just moving your grey hunters forward? Who will sit on your back objective on mission 2?
GH will move forward starting turn 2 or 3 usually. One of the small GH squads in RB camps my objective.
What are your plans to prevent your speeders from getting quickly killed on the missions where it gives an extra battle point?
Again our FLGS has lots of LoS blocking terrain.
What is the role of the wofl guard? How can they be used to be a hammer?
The WG get shared out amongst the GH squads and the CML WG goes with a LF squad. There is no hammer unit in this lilst, GK brought about the end of non GK hammer units.
How do you plan on taking down heavy armor armies like mech'dar?
Mechdar can be handled by 21 missiles, 7 LC, and 14 melta shots a turn. I am not worried about Mechdar, Mech IG and Mech GK do concern me.
What are your overall strategy for the missions?
Destroy all my opponents transports turns 1 and 2, whittle down the infantry as they walk across the board then objective grab turns 3+
What are your plans on how to deal with the armies out there? Go through each of the armies and make a basic plan on how to taclke them.
IG, SW, C:SM, CSM, Orks, 'Nids, GK, etc....
Excellent advice about sitting down and planning for the most common Ard Boyz lists. I will definitely do this, thanks.

Here's the list I was going to bring if I played SW...

3x Rune Priest each w/ LL various power and wargear to make them legal each one goes into Long Fangs

3x 3-man Wolf Guard + Razorback w/ LasC/TL PG (one each in the Long Fangs and the Grey Hunters)

6x GH w/ Flamer + Razorback w/ LasC/TL PG

3x Landspeeder w/ Hvy Flamer and MM

3x 6-man Long Fangs (5 Missile Launchers) + Razorback w/ LasC/ TL PG

Lot of KP, but it was a beast to fight.

Things to consider on those Paladins:

1) If you're facing a decent sized group, Draigo is probably there and he'll enjoy shrugging off the Lascannons coming in. Plasma Cannons may not instakill but if the squad is big enough, it will deviate onto 3-4 even with them spread out due to their larger bases.

2) Shrouding and the fact that there's going to be a good amount of terrain will make those Lascannon shots even more frustrating...quantity over quality in this regard.

This has just been my experience.

Still think you should find a better place for the points over that Terminator...

Ok.
Drop CML Termie.
Drop the 2 speeders in squadron
Drop MG on RB GH
Drop 2 LC on one LF Squad

Add 2x Dreads with PC/TLAC
Add 2 PC to LF Squad
Add plasma gun to the two small GH squads

I lose 6 Missiles 1 Melta Shot and 2 LC shots.
I add 4 PC shots, 2-4PG shots, 4 TLAC shots

Worth it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Njal
Rune Priest: Living Lightning, Tempests Wrath
Troops
3x 7GH: MG, MotW, Banner, Rhino
2x 5GH: PG Razorback TLAC
Elites
Wolf Guard: 4x Combimelta
2x Dreads PC/TLAC
Heavy Support
6 Long Fangs: 5 ML Las/Plas Razorback
1x 6 Long Fangs: 2 LC 3 ML Las/Plas Razorbacks
1x 6 Long Fangs: 2 PC 3 ML Las/Plas Razorbacks
Fast
Land Speeder MM/TML
Land Speeder MM/TML



15 Missiles/5 Las Cannons/4 PC/4 TLAC shots a turn, 5 Scoring Units, and the best Anti-Psyker tech in the game (Njal).

OW, abandoning the 4 HQs (RPs) we were discussing?

Brothererekose wrote:OW, abandoning the 4 HQs (RPs) we were discussing?

4 RPs were great until GK came out. With Aegis all over the place and SR and Chimera being armor 12 LL has lost much of its luster. Njal is worth 2 RP all on his own.

just my opinion but have you thought of dropping 1 or 2 LF packs for vindicators?

yes it is only one shot a turn but a S10 pie plate is going to be havoc for Paladins... and any horde that might show up... even agains AV10 a indirect hit can with a bit of luck wreck a vehicle and glance AV11... and they are durable!!

also, I would either go PC/DCCW &HF or 2 x TLAC on the dreads... they should have a defined role... i.e. anti infantry (PC/DCCW & HF) or anti transport (Rifledread)

on your WG... I would put 3 x combi melta & PF (for your rhino squads) and drop the 4th... or add a 5th...

also speeders for me don't belong in this list I think there are better suicide units... maybe Scouts or even a small TWC micro hammer unit? but it is as was said... how do you play and what units best suit YOUR game plan...

Well I took a list very similar to the second one I posted. Massacre and Minor the first two rounds, got seeded for the top table final round and got a draw, the other top table also ended in a draw (hate Victory Points). I ended up 3rd which is all good since that gets me into Regionals in Sept. Look for a full break down on the blog in my sig tomorrow night, Sunday, if you are interested.