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Hi guys, just wanted to list some changes I thought about making to units with sniper weapons. These rules are intended to increase the battlefield worth of all snipers, and change their role into something closer resembling real-life sharpshooters. I'll be using Ratlings as an example, although my plan would involve reviewing each sniper unit (not any unit with access to sniper rifles, but dedicated sniper squads) on a case-by-case basis, drastically lowering the number of soldiers within each and increasing point costs.





So yeah, the Ratling Sheet:







All dedicated sniper units (Rangers, Scouts, Ratlings, etc) would have access to the Lone Operators, Sniper and Observer special rules (as explained above), and squadmembers would be split into Sharpshooters and Spotters, just like the Ratlings above.







Their weapons would undergo a few changes as well. For example, the regular Imperial Sniper Rifle profile would look like this:



The improved rifle would be more/less effective against weaker/tougher targets respectively, and killing a really tough target (like a C'tan, Wraithlord, etc) would require a series of perfect shots (Rending), rather than a consistent, non-relative 4+. The additional range would also help to keep the firing Team out of range of most weaponry, in order to both solidify the Team's role and compensate for decreased survivability and higher cost.



Imperial units with current access to the Sniper Rifle as a special weapon would instead have access to the Long-Las (more of a DMR), subject to similar changes:










So, what do you think?

Obviously some units like Tau Sniper Drones or Vindicare Assassins would need a little more thought, but I wanted to outline the core principles above.

There was actually a thread like this I was posting on.I like akll of the rules above.Except the wound allocation.However,it is better than the other thread said that they can always choose their targets.

Yes to all of the above.

Aye, I agree!

May I ask,why an Int test to choose the target?

@Deadshot: Initiative is supposed to reflect a model's wit and reflexes, right? I just thought that it would best represent the speed and focus necessary to pick out important targets in the middle of a firefight... I mean, a Guardsman would have more trouble identifying and tracking a single important enemy that something like a Ranger would.

I thought about using Leadership, but I don't really think it fits the bill as well.

LOVE IT

Hm,very nice.
I tend to think of Int as the speed that a modal brings his power sword down on flesh.

@Deadshot: Well, what other characteristic would be better?

None.I was just explaining my confusion at Int tests.Nice Rules.

I dont think it should be heavy as snipers are known as sneaky and stealthy, and not being able to move and shoot would defeat that

It is supposed to represent the careful aiming required,which is difficult when moving.

My suggestion for improving the utility of snipers would be to give some kind of benefit for them shooting a unit that remained stationary in its previous turn.

Something like automatically hitting units that didn't move, or providing them with a re-roll to wound (and the 2d6 take highest like ordnance against vehicles).

This would seem to accurately represent the danger of standing still when there's snipers about... they're much more likely to get a critical shot. Thoughts?

I definitely like what you've got going here. Props!

sarukai wrote:My suggestion for improving the utility of snipers would be to give some kind of benefit for them shooting a unit that remained stationary in its previous turn.

Something like automatically hitting units that didn't move, or providing them with a re-roll to wound (and the 2d6 take highest like ordnance against vehicles).

This would seem to accurately represent the danger of standing still when there's snipers about... they're much more likely to get a critical shot. Thoughts?

Well, if something like that were implemented it would probably be global, not just for snipers.

sarukai wrote:My suggestion for improving the utility of snipers would be to give some kind of benefit for them shooting a unit that remained stationary in its previous turn.

Something like automatically hitting units that didn't move, or providing them with a re-roll to wound (and the 2d6 take highest like ordnance against vehicles).

This would seem to accurately represent the danger of standing still when there's snipers about... they're much more likely to get a critical shot. Thoughts?

The thing is when a unit hasn't moved, it doesn't nessaseraly mean that they are standing still or out in the open

Updated the OP a bit. Might look at some non-IG units when I get a chance.

The thing is that the long las often uses hot shot rounds so it should really be ap3

Sniper Weapons automatically count as Rending and Pinning already. However I do think the type needs to be changed, perhaps from an additive to an actual weapon classification, ex: Sniper 1.

Firstly I agree, Sniper Reapon ranges are pretty pathetic in 40k right now (36"? Really?) and need to be at bare minimum 48".

In any case I've coughed up the following special rules out of my brain matter...

Camouflage (new Universal Special Rule)
Units with camouflage tend to use special forms of camouflage and suppressed weaponry to keep themselves hidden as they pick off their prey. A unit with Camouflage that does not move in the movement phase that is out in the open counts as having a Cover Save of 5+ or, if they are in cover, count as having Stealth. Additionally, if the squad did not move during the movement phase, any enemy units attempting to shoot at the unit must first attempt to spot the unit as if they were in a scenario using the Night Fight rules (if the scenario does use Night Fight, halve the range rolled on the dice).

Also....

Cloaking (new Universal Special Rule)
Units with cloaking use strong forms of light refraction or powerful chameleon-like abilities in order to perfectly hide themselves in plain sight, rendering themselves nearly invisible. If the squad did not shoot during their turn, place a Cloaking marker on that unit. Enemy units attempting to shoot at a unit with a Cloaking marker do so as if they were in a mission using Night Fight (halving the result) and receive a -1 to their Ballistic Skill (as they're attempting to shoot at a flicker or a glimmer). If being shot at during a mission using Night Fight use the same rules as stated before, but the dice to determine detection against a unit with a Cloaking marker do not gain any multipliers (as seeing a cloaked unit at night is virtually impossible).

Lastly (after the phrase "Boom! Headshot" flooded into my head)...

Sniper
Sniper weapons automatically hit on a To-Hit roll of 4+ (unless the roll required would be less), if the target is within 24" of the model firing the weapon than the model will automatically hit the target on a To-Hit roll of 2+. Sniper weapons always count as having Pinning. If a unit with a Sniper weapon rolls a 6 To-Hit the unit has scored a hit against a vital spot on the target, causing an instant wound. If the model failed their save against the shot and suffered a wound, but did not die, roll a D6. On a roll of 6 the wound was fatal and the wounded model suffers Instant Death. Units with weapons that have Sniper can also make a Called Shot.

Called Shot
Certain talented marksman or snipers are able to make Called Shots against their opponents. If the unit has a Ballistic Skill of 6 or higher or is firing a weapon that has Sniper and did not move in the movement phase, the unit may declare a Called Shot, attempting to pick out a specific target within an enemy squad. The unit making a Called Shot must pass an Initiative Test on a D6 before making rolling any To-Hit rolls. If successful, the specified unit may choose which wound he gives to what model in an enemy squad (so long as he hits and wounds the model, that is). If the test is failed the sniper/marksman blows the shot, automatically counting their shot as having missed without any To-Hit re-rolls possible.

chaoslooksgood wrote:I dont think it should be heavy as snipers are known as sneaky and stealthy, and not being able to move and shoot would defeat that

That was the case, but that kind of sniper has died out to the long range 50 calibre sniper. I watched a documentary on it. They used to be more like spies and infiltrators. Rarely actually taking shots, just an information feed. Then later they became short range sharpshooters, their weapons too basic and inaccurate to be really effective at long range. Then the sharpshooter died out and the long range sniper was born.

Snipers used to be more terror tactics and that propaganda than assassins. People overrate them, that's why they are so deadly, so that's why I think GW summed them up very well.

Although I think they should get bonuses when firing at OT vehicles. To represent them firing at the crew.

I like these rules.
What about a rule for use of Bi/Tri pods?

Also if i may add a rule of myself. Expanding on Marik Laws thought of 'Boom! Headshot'.

BOOM! HEADSHOT.
Due to the shock of seeing a comrades head exploding in front of them the rest of the squad is so stunned that they either fallback or can do nothing but attempt to parry the ensuing assault.
Any roll to hit of 6, followed by a roll to would of 6 cause the recieving squad to either
- A) Immediately fall back 2d6 and cannot regroup till next turn.
OR
- B) If assaulted in the same turn fights at WS1 and cannot hit back.

What do we think?

Brother Azul wrote:I like these rules.
What about a rule for use of Bi/Tri pods?

Also if i may add a rule of myself. Expanding on Marik Laws thought of 'Boom! Headshot'.

BOOM! HEADSHOT.
Due to the shock of seeing a comrades head exploding in front of them the rest of the squad is so stunned that they either fallback or can do nothing but attempt to parry the ensuing assault.
Any roll to hit of 6, followed by a roll to would of 6 cause the recieving squad to either
- A) Immediately fall back 2d6 and cannot regroup till next turn.
OR
- B) If assaulted in the same turn fights at WS1 and cannot hit back.

What do we think?

Or what about:

take a Ld test, if past then the unit automatically goes to ground, if fail the unit falls back 2d6"

Hmm its probably eaiser to go with your idea, fits the rules better any hoo. I just like the idea of a squad absoloutly not giving a feth what their CO is yelling at them and just legging it OR being so stunned they get chopped into iddy biddy bits by the angry assault orientated squad headed their way.

Correct me if i am wrong but don't units that have gone to ground I1 in combact (i don't have a rule book at hand)

Rulebook says, and i quote,

"whilst it has gone to ground the unit may do nothing of its own voilition, but will react normally if affected by enemy actions (for example, it will take morale tests as normal). If the unit has to fall back, it will return to normal immediately. If assaulted, the unit will fight as normal, but gains no advantage for being in cover because they are not set to receive the enemy charge."

Sorry for any crappy spelling. I was trying to read and type at the same time.

ah my bad it must be pinning that gives them I1 then

No.A unit assaulting through cover(having to take either type of terrain test) is reduced to Int 1,unless it has assault grenades.

Guys, sniper weapons are Pinning for that exact reason. The target squad comes under fire from a hidden enemy, and goes to ground... either out of shock, panic or fear, to reduce their profile, or just to work out a suitable course of action.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:The thing is that the long las often uses hot shot rounds so it should really be ap3

Wasn't that only Larkin?

But yeah, a "Hot-Shot" upgrade might be a good idea.

Marik Law wrote:Sniper Weapons automatically count as Rending and Pinning already. However I do think the type needs to be changed, perhaps from an additive to an actual weapon classification, ex: Sniper 1.

So sniper weapons would automatically be Rending and Pinning? It's probably just easier to label them Rending and Pinning... the previous "sniper" tag was only really there to explain their 4+ to-wound rule.

In any case I've coughed up the following special rules out of my brain matter...

Camouflage (new Universal Special Rule)
Units with camouflage tend to use special forms of camouflage and suppressed weaponry to keep themselves hidden as they pick off their prey. A unit with Camouflage that does not move in the movement phase that is out in the open counts as having a Cover Save of 5+ or, if they are in cover, count as having Stealth. Additionally, if the squad did not move during the movement phase, any enemy units attempting to shoot at the unit must first attempt to spot the unit as if they were in a scenario using the Night Fight rules (if the scenario does use Night Fight, halve the range rolled on the dice).

I like the night-fighting part, the Stealth USR should already include something like that IMO, but only if the unit firing hasn't targeted the camouflaged squad already. The cover save would be good during the first turn only, or on the turn a unit with the rule outflanks or enters from reserve (but not when they Deep Strike).

Cloaking (new Universal Special Rule)
Units with cloaking use strong forms of light refraction or powerful chameleon-like abilities in order to perfectly hide themselves in plain sight, rendering themselves nearly invisible. If the squad did not shoot during their turn, place a Cloaking marker on that unit. Enemy units attempting to shoot at a unit with a Cloaking marker do so as if they were in a mission using Night Fight (halving the result) and receive a -1 to their Ballistic Skill (as they're attempting to shoot at a flicker or a glimmer). If being shot at during a mission using Night Fight use the same rules as stated before, but the dice to determine detection against a unit with a Cloaking marker do not gain any multipliers (as seeing a cloaked unit at night is virtually impossible).

For units like Tau Stealth Suits?

Sniper
Sniper weapons automatically hit on a To-Hit roll of 4+ (unless the roll required would be less), if the target is within 24" of the model firing the weapon than the model will automatically hit the target on a To-Hit roll of 2+. Sniper weapons always count as having Pinning. If a unit with a Sniper weapon rolls a 6 To-Hit the unit has scored a hit against a vital spot on the target, causing an instant wound. If the model failed their save against the shot and suffered a wound, but did not die, roll a D6. On a roll of 6 the wound was fatal and the wounded model suffers Instant Death. Units with weapons that have Sniper can also make a Called Shot.

I would argue that scoped rifles are actually more accurate at long range than up close, as using a scope is virtually impossible when the target is moving all over the place at short range. I also reckon that BS is a good way of determining accuracy, as something like an Ork would have more trouble aiming carefully than a Guardsman would.

The Instant Death bit would be interesting, but could only work if snipers were fairly rare. Did you mean that the rule would apply to normal 40k snipers, or to the snipers in the OP? If not, every Company/Platoon Command Squad, Special Weapon Squad, Infantry Squad, Veteran Squad, etc, would have access to insta-killing weapons, which would be really unfair to enemies like Nids. The rule itself is good though. Maybe on a to-hit roll of 6, any subsequent wound causes ID? It'd be less complicated that way, and wouldn't instantly cause a wound (I mean, the enemy could take a bullet to the head and only lose an ear or something else non-fatal). Double 6s when rolling to hit/wound would result in a perfect shot.

Marik Law wrote:Called Shot
Certain talented marksman or snipers are able to make Called Shots against their opponents. If the unit has a Ballistic Skill of 6 or higher or is firing a weapon that has Sniper and did not move in the movement phase, the unit may declare a Called Shot, attempting to pick out a specific target within an enemy squad. The unit making a Called Shot must pass an Initiative Test on a D6 before making rolling any To-Hit rolls. If successful, the specified unit may choose which wound he gives to what model in an enemy squad (so long as he hits and wounds the model, that is). If the test is failed the sniper/marksman blows the shot, automatically counting their shot as having missed without any To-Hit re-rolls possible.

Isn't this basically the same as the "Sniper" rule in the OP, with the exception of the BS requirement? I don't see why a high BS would be necessary, as any sniper can try to take out a single target... it makes sense that better marksmen will have a better chance of success though. They's still have to roll to hit normally, the only difference is that they'd have to pass an Initiative test beforehand.

zilegil wrote:I think they should get bonuses when firing at OT vehicles. To represent them firing at the crew.

Like what? Extra D6 to penetrate, but -2 on the damage chart?

What about a rule for use of Bi/Tri pods?

I thought about this a while back, was thinking probably a 5-10pt upgrade. Bi pods allow a model to fire from gone to ground whilst using that weapon thus benefiting from extra cover saves. Whereas a tripod would give a model +1 BS whilst firing with that weapon.

Please dont revive long-dead threads....

Haha, at least he used the search function.

Just out of interest, are these rules even valid with 6th edition? I haven't played since 5th...