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LordofHats wrote:Ahtman point out an article that talked about that, which really supports what I said about script alterations making the goo confusing.

Ahtman posted some pictures. Looking at the Prometheus artbook, I can tell that they had different ideas at different times. There's no hint that this meant the ideas were muddled up in production. Just more extra-textual speculation on your part, there.

LordofHats wrote:Now I just question your reading ability cause that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Shaw never sat down and thought "If they want to destroy us, why did they tell us where they were?" No one ever asked that question.

That's how the movie ended, actually.

Manchu wrote:Ahtman posted some pictures.

Pictures from an article that he then talked about...

LordofHats wrote:That's how the movie ended, actually.

Maybe I just don't remember it, though its still a question that probably should have come up sooner. Prometheus actually in some ways reminds me of Predators in that both movies build up all slow, and nice like, then it hits a plot point and just seems to blow through everything so fast in the last forty odd minutes.

Frazzled wrote:

Manchu wrote:If you want answers to the types of questions Frazzled posed, Alien would be a totally confusing and frustrating movie.

Really? Like NO.

Really. Like YES.



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LordofHats wrote:That's how the movie ended, actually.

Maybe I just don't remember it, though its still a question that probably should have come up sooner.

No. Really No. There's only about two real questions that go unanswered in Alien. Prometheus has at least a dozen moments of confusing ambiguity.

LordofHats wrote:No its not. The only thing never answered in Alien was how the derelict got where it was and what the purpose of its cargo for the pilot would be. That's it. Alien has a very simple (almost slasher fiction simple EDIT: hell, not even almost) plot. Prometheus went for something more ambitious.

You forgot the most sinister questions!
How did the Company know the derelict was there? Who sent them to it?
It seems like to me that whoever was giving Ash his orders knew what they
were going after. As a matter of fact, it seems like they knew ALOT about it
based on Ash's comments("It's perfection.... You can't stop it.....").

alarmingrick wrote:How did the Company know the derelict was there?

Well there was this signal thingie going on.

It seems like to me that whoever was giving Ash his orders knew what they
were going after.

I forgot about that. The orders did say 'organism' which is rather specific (though, maybe the Prometheus trilogy will answer that question in later films).

Also, how much did Dallas know? and for how long?

And we have a ton of questions about the xenomorph biology that are not touched at all. And the space jockey -- who is a total mystery in all respects. Not to mention the relationship between them (where's the one that burst from its chest?). We're demanding a lot from Prometheus because we haven't thought about it and its sequels for 30 years.

LordofHats wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:How did the Company know the derelict was there?

Well there was this signal thingie going on.

But a signal ( that was a warning not a S.O.S.) told no details about jack. Not even what kind of signal it was.
I don't think the Co. knew it was a badass alien lifeform going off of that.

LordofHats wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:How did the Company know the derelict was there?

Well there was this signal thingie going on.

The question is, was it a distress signal, a warning, or did it even exist (an "illusion" created by W-Y)?

Manchu wrote:Also, how much did Dallas know? and for how long?

There's no sign in the film that Dallas knew any more than the rest of the crew. The whole thing was seemingly orchestrated entirely by Ash at the behest of the Company (was Weyland-Yutani even named in Alien?).

And we have a ton of questions about the xenomorph biology that are not touched at all.

... We really don't need answers for why a movie monster is the way it is. Consistency is more important. The Xenomorph never confused anyone as to how it went about its business. The goo meanwhile is a muddled substance that has confusing inconsistencies within the plot of the film. EDIT: Hell, it would have worked better for your idea about the goo had the captain walked in on Shaw and said "I don't know what the goo is, maybe we're not meant to know" or something along those lines. Instead, he spontaneously declares it a weapon and the film takes that and runs.

The question is, was it a distress signal, a warning, or did it even exist (an "illusion" created by W-Y)?

I see no reason to doubt its existence (ignoring that R Scott answers that in commentary for the movie).

And the space jockey -- who is a total mystery in all respects. Not to mention the relationship between them (where's the one that burst from its chest?).

Presumably dead, or elsewhere on the ship at the time.

We're demanding a lot from Prometheus because we haven't thought about it and its sequels for 30 years.

No. We're demanding a lot from Prometheus because it holds its hand out temptingly and ultimately provides no answers. EDIT: Alien didn't hold its hand out, it just dropped some things and let the lay where they fell. It never invited us to ask questions about Jockey or the Xenomorph, which is something Prometheus does constantly.

Manchu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Manchu wrote:If you want answers to the types of questions Frazzled posed, Alien would be a totally confusing and frustrating movie.

Really? Like NO.

Really. Like YES.



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LordofHats wrote:That's how the movie ended, actually.

Maybe I just don't remember it, though its still a question that probably should have come up sooner.

It did come up. As soon as Shaw had the chance to talk to an Engineer, she started screaming the questions "why why why?" And then at the end, instead of going home, she says that she deserves an answer.

I don't think Dallas knew much, if anything more than he let on.
But, he did spend a long time with "Mother" before he came out
to the dining hall and briefed them on the signal. Easy enough to plant
the seed of doubt though.

LordofHats wrote:We really don't need answers for why a movie monster is the way it is.

Exactly correct. We also don't need to know how the Black Liquid works.

Frazzled wrote:Its not all mystical. You'r reading a lot into ...

Okay, when you call me reading the text of the film "reading into things" then we have reached the end of productive conversation.


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alarmingrick wrote:But, he did spend a long time with "Mother" before he came out to the dining hall and briefed them on the signal.

He at least knew at that point that the crew was expendable. And he seemed okay with that. Makes me think he had already thought about it.

Frazzled wrote:Its not all mystical. You'r reading a lot into what is in essence a college kid's philosophy paper that, like a college kid's philosophy paper is want to to, is only half baked.

That's brilliant. Can I quote you on that

Exactly correct. We also don't need to know how the Black Liquid works.

...

That's what I said. I also said it should be consistent, which black liquid is not.

Manchu wrote:Okay, when you call me reading the text of the film "reading into things" then we have reached the end of productive conversation.

We reached the end of productive conversation when you create contrived explanations for a very convoluted film and refuse to admit your reading into things.

He at least knew at that point that the crew was expendable. And he seemed okay with that. Makes me think he had already thought about it.

And that isn't reading into things? I just watched the movie yesterday. Dallas doesn't do anything to suggest that he knows anything. He's part of the crew. I doubt he'd like to think of himself as expendable.

kronk wrote:That was one of the more stunning visual displays I've seen in a long time.

Agreed, that was the first moment in any film that I've ever seen where I've just sat there with my jaw hanging open.

The one thing about the film that actually irked me wasn't any of the bad decisions (apart from possibly ignoring the assault on the doctors) but how the proto-facehugger managed to grow from a small 4 tentacled squid thing about a foot long, to a giant many tentacled mini-kraken capable of overpowering the engineer, when there were no sources of food or nutrition in the med-room.

LordofHats wrote:No. Really No. There's only about two real questions that go unanswered in Alien. Prometheus has at least a dozen moments of confusing ambiguity.

And they re cool questions that advance the storyline.
Why do Space Jockeys have a bunch of alien eggs? Even that is not a big deal. Could be a bomber, could be cargo, could have been infested at some point.
Who are the Space Jockeys? While cool answer this question is not essential to the story.


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LordofHats wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:How did the Company know the derelict was there?

Well there was this signal thingie going on.

It seems like to me that whoever was giving Ash his orders knew what they
were going after.

I forgot about that. The orders did say 'organism' which is rather specific (though, maybe the Prometheus trilogy will answer that question in later films).

You forgot the most sinister questions!
How did the Company know the derelict was there? Who sent them to it?
***Answered in the movie and a central plot point. It was sending out a warning. The company sent them.

It seems like to me that whoever was giving Ash his orders knew what they
were going after. As a matter of fact, it seems like they knew ALOT about it
based on Ash's comments("It's perfection.... You can't stop it.....").
****We don’t know how much information was in the warning. Ash also didn’t know any of that until they ran into it and studied the facehugger and the Alien’s actions.



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alarmingrick wrote:

LordofHats wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:How did the Company know the derelict was there?

Well there was this signal thingie going on.

But a signal ( that was a warning not a S.O.S.) told no details about jack. Not even what kind of signal it was.
I don't think the Co. knew it was a badass alien lifeform going off of that.

We don't know that. Ripley only surmises its some kind of warning. She doesn't know the details.

It could have said "warning, LV 243 is now infected with Space Herpes. Be sure you are vaccinated before appropaching."

Wondering about the biology of the Alien itself is light years different than "er why did David just infect that guy? Why is this guy trying to French kiss a snake? What the? Where did the Red Baron come from???"

Frazzled wrote:Where did the Red Baron come from???"

Germany.

LordofHats wrote:
And that isn't reading into things? I just watched the movie yesterday. Dallas doesn't do anything to suggest that he knows anything. He's part of the crew. I doubt he'd like to think of himself as expendable.

Indeed, the only thing Dallas knows is expendable at that point is their bonus shares if they break the law/contract and not check out a potential distress call.
We know Ash (because he directly tells us) is there to get the Alien. We don't know why David does pretty much anything he does after he rescues them in the storm. WHY DOES HE GIVE THE SCIENTIST THAT SPECIAL FRUITY DRINK? WHY DOES HE GET WEIRD WITH SHAW?


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Interestingly now that you think about it, the goo stuff reaction would be similar to if it were some sort of industrial goo for the engineer.

Engineer freighter 1135 "the Donald" full of highly toxic dihydrogen monoxide prepares to make the LV223 / Earth colony run (for the 18th freaking time that month, gosh the crew is SO bored) when there's a spill elsewhere at the port. Crew rushes to the safety of the rec room but gets trapped and dies from chemical poisoning. I mean the stuff is so toxic is causes mutations, insanity, and even death. Pilot jumps into his hyper pod as he knows it wil protect him until help arrives.

But the leak is so bad everyone in the area gets wacked and the pilot is trapped for a really long time. When relief shows up they turn out to BE BUG EYED DWARF ALIENS!!!! AHHHH!

The goo isn't a bio bomb, its a SuperFund Site.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=62078

In case you were wondering what David asks/says.

Frazzled wrote: Some people dissolved.
Some people turned into zombies with anger management issues
Some people made squid babies
some people turned into big snakes who don't like being messed with.

1 person was infected with Penis Snake blood. (Goo + worm DNA)
1 person was impregnated by someone directly consuming the Goo. (Goo + human DNA)
1 person was directly infected through ingestion. (just good old Goo, no additives)
Doesn't suprise me that there are diferent "reactions" at all. Went about like I would have guessed
it would given the different variables.

Thanks Red!
Now the question is do we get the directors cut soon, or in 25 years?!

reds8n wrote:http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=62078

In case you were wondering what David asks/says.

Dr Biltoo is just reading things into the movie ...


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LordofHats wrote:

Manchu wrote:He at least knew at that point that the crew was expendable. And he seemed okay with that. Makes me think he had already thought about it.

And that isn't reading into things? I just watched the movie yesterday. Dallas doesn't do anything to suggest that he knows anything. He's part of the crew. I doubt he'd like to think of himself as expendable.

I guess you never wondered why Dallas didn't say anything to anyone about the crew being expendable, huh? And I suppose him knowing about that didn't make you think about why he wanted to bypass the lawful quarantine procedure either? There's quite a lot of ambiguity there.

Things are only boring if you insist on having all the answers without ever asking questions.

I think it's rather obvious David did the things he did because Weyland told him. My question is if David has ulterior motivations (aside from doing what Weyland told him to do), cause I got the sense from the film that he did, but it wasn't ever touched on so I don't really know.

With the promise of both a director's cut AND an audio commentary on the upcoming home release, fans will hopefully not have too much longer to wait until more of Prometheus' many secrets are revealed.

Translation: Scott smelled $$$ and decided to cash in.

Shocker. It's almost like Hollywood is only in the film business for, dare I say it, the profits?

I guess you never wondered why Dallas didn't say anything to anyone about the crew being expendable, huh?

Dallas didn't say anything because he didn't know... I have no idea where you get the idea he did. The order to Ash was only readable by Ash without an override. Dallas states he trusts Ash, so he's obviously not as concerned as Ripley with what that order entails.

And I suppose him knowing about that didn't make you think about why he wanted to bypass the lawful quarantine procedure either?

By that logic everyone but Ripley knew about the order. Dallas wasn't the only one who wanted to bring Kane back to the ship. So did Lambert. We all know why Ash opened the door.

There's quite a lot of ambiguity there.

No its really not. You've created the ambiguity on the false premise that Dallas knew something that the film never even implies he knew.

Things are only boring when a piece consistently begs you to ask questions and then provides no answers to any of them because they want to make a sequel.

Fix'd.

There's nothing wrong with asking questions. But when questions are the only thing a plot achieves, then the plot has failed because anyone with half a brain stops wasting their time with the dribble and moves on with life. Lost did nothing but ask questions, and Lost sucked because of it. I have no incentive to continue to care about something that only asks me questions. I don't demand that it answer all my questions, or that the answers even be complete, but I do demand that if your going to spend two hours asking me questions, give me something for my time.

LordofHats wrote:I think it's rather obvious David did the things he did because Weyland told him. My question is if David has ulterior motivations (aside from doing what Weyland told him to do), cause I got the sense from the film that he did, but it wasn't ever touched on so I don't really know.

With the promise of both a director's cut AND an audio commentary on the upcoming home release, fans will hopefully not have too much longer to wait until more of Prometheus' many secrets are revealed.

Translation: Scott smelled $$$ and decided to cash in.

Shocker. It's almost like Hollywood is only in the film business for, dare I say it, the profits?

I don't think anything David did was obvious. He saves Shaw just to experiment on later.
He stalks her stasis. And directly infects Halloway. I think it's easier to assume he said what he
was ordered to, but I won't be surprised if he told the Engineer he was with Immigration and he
needed his papers.....

TBH if there's going be this much discussioin over the ideas over a film you're probably better off seeing it high

LordofHats wrote:I have no incentive to continue to care about something that only asks me questions.

And yet here you still are, arguing about how bad this movie is.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:TBH if there's going be this much discussioin over the ideas over a film you're probably better off seeing it high

You make it sound like there's other ways?

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:TBH if there's going be this much discussioin over the ideas over a film you're probably better off seeing it high

Manchu wrote:

LordofHats wrote:I have no incentive to continue to care about something that only asks me questions.

And yet here you still are, arguing about how bad this movie is.

I have lots of free time (obviously, I'm on a 40k forum ) and would have liked actually talking about what's in the movie, but you continue to insist on posting contrived whimsy over the actual piece and my attempts to suggest otherwise are continually in vain.

P.S. I mentioned no more than a page ago I didn't think the film was bad. But given your habit of forming baseless opinion on this film I guess I shouldn't be shocked that you just assume any criticism directed at the movie must mean that person thinks its absolutely horrible.

We've already been down this road. I provide detailed shot-for-shot commentary and you claim I've made it up.

Back to the movie

So why did David feed the scientist the mickey?
What were the spacejockeys running from?
Why did they run there?
How can I get one of those medipods?
Is the medipod an early version of the scanner etc. gear found in both the Nostromo and later the Sulaco's lifepod?
Just why are there aother space jockey ships?

How long until the Hobbit?