Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Melissia wrote:
Don't look at me, I'm wondering the same thing. Apparently criticizing a developer's stated goals and methods is eeeeevil and we should feel bad for doing it.

I don't, of course.

Neither do I battle sister, neither do I. We are, after all, the fan base they are suppose to be making this game for, so it's our right to procrastinate and call them out on their cheeky marketing strategies if we so choose, on what basis we do this, fact, hearsay or otherwise is our business, and ours alone.

New update released:

http://overpower3d.com/Previews/warhammer-40k-eternal-crusade-details-revealed-1/

I'm liking the fact it's:

1. 4 Independent Races with Tyranids being the great equalizer between them.

2. Guilds get housing... in SPACE.

Need more updates for the future, but at least it's something.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
New update released:

http://overpower3d.com/Previews/warhammer-40k-eternal-crusade-details-revealed-1/

I'm liking the fact it's:

1. 4 Independent Races with Tyranids being the great equalizer between them.

2. Guilds get housing... in SPACE.

Need more updates for the future, but at least it's something.

Not a new update. That's all from the first interview.

nomotog wrote:

You sure your not tilting windmills? Though no dua I'm not going to play for a game I don't have fun in. No one will. I said that in the very post you quoted. People don't play games that treat them poorly and this is a big problem in F2P games where more often then not people play before they pay for it. In an environment like that, you don't want to drive away your players before they get a chance to pay you.

If you're going to assume that the game won't be fun then you may as well assume that the devs are all holocaust deniers. Actually there are some in this thread who probably do think that

That is why their payment plan is so bad because it will keep money out of their pockets.

Game devs make a game...people who're interested will buy it. How is that a bad payment plan?

It's not me hating on the idea. It's an objectively bad idea

Lol.

Edit: Normally this gets posted in every debate about F2P and microtransactions. I think we just forgot. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions

So this game is going to be bad...but pennyarcade is good? there's no accounting for taste, though I do salute your perseverance in sticking with a webcomic that doesn't even try to be funny.

 BryllCream wrote:
If you're going to assume that the game won't be fun then you may as well assume that the devs are all holocaust deniers. Actually there are some in this thread who probably do think that

We were talking about a silly video game and you bring up holocaust denying scum? wtf

 Minx wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
If you're going to assume that the game won't be fun then you may as well assume that the devs are all holocaust deniers. Actually there are some in this thread who probably do think that

We were talking about a silly video game and you bring up holocaust denying scum? wtf

Well as long as people are simply making things up to attack the game/developers, they may as well call them holocaust deniers too. Hey I heard the devs for this game kick around puppies during their lunch breaks!

JWhex wrote:


Microtransactions to buy crap = fail. In the interview, one of his examples was a player with a marine character that they had spent $200 on. WTF kind of nonsense is that? 200 dollars for bling and

It's not that outlandish when you look at a game like WoW, most players have a main toon that they invest most of their time into...$200 is barely more than you would pay for a year of playing the game. They were referring to a player who was extremely advanced...if the game is good enough I wouldn't mind sinking $200 into it over a year long period or so...in fact I would love to be able to if the game was good enough to warrant it.

The trend for MMOs nowadays is moving towards the completely F2P (besides aesthetical/time microtransactions) or one-pay-to-unlock/play deal, like Guild Wars 2, Dust 514, World of Tanks, to name a few. Even Blizzard seems to be moving this direction with their Warcraft TCG online game that they're working on. Even relatively well-produced games like Star Wars: The Old Republic didn't survive long, and the only two monthly-pay MMOs that immediately come to mind that have been around for at least half a dozen years are WoW and Eve Online. I'll be somewhat surprised if this survives.

 BryllCream wrote:

nomotog wrote:

You sure your not tilting windmills? Though no dua I'm not going to play for a game I don't have fun in. No one will. I said that in the very post you quoted. People don't play games that treat them poorly and this is a big problem in F2P games where more often then not people play before they pay for it. In an environment like that, you don't want to drive away your players before they get a chance to pay you.

If you're going to assume that the game won't be fun then you may as well assume that the devs are all holocaust deniers. Actually there are some in this thread who probably do think that

That is why their payment plan is so bad because it will keep money out of their pockets.

Game devs make a game...people who're interested will buy it. How is that a bad payment plan?

It's not me hating on the idea. It's an objectively bad idea

Lol.

Edit: Normally this gets posted in every debate about F2P and microtransactions. I think we just forgot. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions

So this game is going to be bad...but pennyarcade is good? there's no accounting for taste, though I do salute your perseverance in sticking with a webcomic that doesn't even try to be funny.

Well I suspected before, but now I'm sure enough. Your not actually listening. This isn't a conversation that we are having.

I'd like to hear you explain why running around and shooting/bashing orks, eldar and marines is objectively bad.

 BryllCream wrote:
I'd like to hear you explain why running around and shooting/bashing orks, eldar and marines is objectively bad.

Because that is not what this game is offering to new players. Anyone who doesn't like running around as Ork cannon fodder getting killed by paying Space Marines and bossed around by paying Orks isn't going to stick around long enough to find out if the rest of the game is any better.

 BryllCream wrote:
I'd like to hear you explain why running around and shooting/bashing orks, eldar and marines is objectively bad.

I don't think anyone has said that that is their complaint. A few have said that they aren't interested in a mostly pvp game, but i don't think anyone's point is that the concept of the game they are making is bad. People are disappointed with the way the method of payment is being done, and other things being implemented. MMO's these days last for so much longer if they can draw in a huge, huge player base and make money on casual spending for vanity items and shortcuts, rather than "Pay to buy the game, then continue paying so you can play the game you already bought." You have to pay to even get started, and then you can only play as ork boyz who get stomped by other classes. So you have to shell out monthly payments just to keep up with other players and not be cannon-fodder in the game you already bought. And even if you pay monthly for said game, if you want to play orks you still have to work through the crappy ork boy-below-officer phase. Even if that phase is incredibly short, it's still unfair that you paid for the game like everyone else, but still start off weaker. The fact that they have stated that they need to try and enforce player faction population ratios to have a sort of balance between the factions on top of saying that they have no intention of balancing the game on release makes me think that it won't be fun to play unless you play the beardy classes in the most populated faction.

Also, when people ask for a decent f2p setup rather than a pay2win setup, they aren't being unrealistic and entitled. Plenty of games get by fantastically being entirely f2p in all the classes with all the game play options being free, and make their money on vanity items and shortcuts. It's not an mmo, but look at tf2. All classes are available from the start and all weapon options are available through random drops and crafting, but you can just go ahead and buy them if you don't feel like waiting for a drop or crafting it. Also, hats and badges and other accessories are available for purchase. Tf2 is thriving because of it.

I don't think it's likely, but would anyone else just love ork crafting. It could be so fun to have.

nomotog wrote:
I don't think it's likely, but would anyone else just love ork crafting. It could be so fun to have.

Why'd it be unlikely? Course Orks'll get crafting. They can't give a core gameplay mechanic like that to just one race.

As stated before: you either earn money by having unfair payment systems (aka Pay-to-Win) or by having an extremely good game to keep people playing and only add cosmetic stuff for low prices.

League of Legends, DotA, Team Fortress 2...all extremely good and well-designed games. Very successful games. Also financially.

Check the games the developer used to make before. Bunch of movie-tie-in cash grabs and poor quality shovelware. What are exactly are we to expect? I expect a very poor spinoff and low quality with an unfair pay system. Mark my words.

 Sigvatr wrote:
I expect a very poor spinoff and low quality with an unfair pay system. Mark my words.

That mirrors my expectations :(
In other words we've got to wait another two to four years until we might hear about a great 40k game. Yay!

I think we'll hear about a successor to DoW2 or Space Marine before then at least.

 Melissia wrote:
I think we'll hear about a successor to DoW2 or Space Marine before then at least.

Yes, you are right. In my despair i forgot about those.

Edit: Thankfully Behaviour Interactive only got the MMO licence, didn't they?

 DemetriDominov wrote:
New update released:

http://overpower3d.com/Previews/warhammer-40k-eternal-crusade-details-revealed-1/

I'm liking the fact it's:

1. 4 Independent Races with Tyranids being the great equalizer between them.

2. Guilds get housing... in SPACE.

Need more updates for the future, but at least it's something.

Thats actually increasingly promising, most MMO's spend way too much resources making content, if they just focus on combat, they could get it somewhat right. I just want to drive a fully loaded rhino or land raider with halo 1 madness physics and drop off squads of dudes into combat.

I hope that we dont see convoluted "classes" and the fights contain suitable levels of npc trash, guardsmen, grots, whatever, you dont feel like a big powerful terminator or whatever unless you're wading through crowds of cowerdly jackholes

 Melissia wrote:
I think we'll hear about a successor to DoW2 or Space Marine before then at least.

Just remember that THQ got its assets dismantled when they went bankrupt. Relic Entertainment, which made both DoW games, is now under Sega. No one announced if the license that they used for the DoW games went with Relic to Sega or not, but GW ultimately controls the license. Relic did announce that there was a possibility of it though, and before THQ went bankrupt, their boss announced that DoW3 was on the drawing boards.

Edit: Found this little snippet http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/23/warhammer-40000-dawn-of-war-may-return

 BryllCream wrote:

If you're going to assume that the game won't be fun then you may as well assume that the devs are all holocaust deniers.

Well no, because the former is based off of evidence from the developer's interviews, whereas the latter is you not having anything substantial to say so you engage in ad hominems.

I guess not everyone in this thread did catch the part in the interview where they said "our game won't be fun". Granted, it was easy to miss.

It sounds like they got the model for this game well off. I hate Orks with a passion so locking me into paying to not play as Orks is very off putting.

Now I may not be a games designer but I feel this would have worked in favor for them:

Choose a starting race: CSM, SM, Orks, Eldar.

If the player wanted to play another faction then they had to buy a new Character slot: up to £5 at most I would say.

Progression wise I would like to see:

CSM:
Custist to Cultist Champion
Cultist Champion to CSM
CSM to CSM Champion

Then it splits off into 3 paths:

CSM Champ to Havoc
CSM Champ to Raptor
CSM Champ to Terminator

I mean I have now given a reason as to why to level through the same content 3 times, to change the end result.

Now I'm not familiar with SM, Orks or Eldar so not 100% how to progress for them.

I really feel that this 40K MMO would work well if it was developed similar to Planetside 2.

Now I may have missed things mentioned in this thread, I did skim read alot of it.

 johnscott10 wrote:
Custist to Cultist Champion
Cultist Champion to CSM

Only if this allowed for female CSMs.

 johnscott10 wrote:
Progression wise I would like to see:

CSM:
Custist to Cultist Champion
Cultist Champion to CSM
CSM to CSM Champion

Mook-level Cultists should not be PCs.

 Melissia wrote:

 johnscott10 wrote:
Custist to Cultist Champion
Cultist Champion to CSM

Only if this allowed for female CSMs.

I dont see why not, I mean surely there are some females who would happily bow to the forces of Chaos. Kinda hate the whole only female faction being SoB tbh.

EDIT: Helps if I add the quote.

 johnscott10 wrote:

Now I'm not familiar with SM, Orks or Eldar so not 100% how to progress for them.

Orks:

Start as one of da boyz ( shoota, slugga, loota, storm, stikkbomma ) -> survive fights, grow bigga -> Nob -> survive fights, grow bigga, kill current warboss -> Warboss

Special exceptions: Mekboy, Painboy, Weird Boy, Big Mek

Space Marines:

Initiate -> Scout -> Battle Brother ( tactical, assault, devastator ) -> Sergeant -> Captain -> Chapter Master

Special classes: Apothecary, Techmarine, Chaplain, Librarian

Eldar have their Warrior Aspects:

Dire Avengers, Howling Banshees, Striking scorpions, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders

Special classes: Harlequins, Farseer, Warlock, Spiritseer, Autarch

Edit: I'd have to consult the new eldar codex for specifics if needed. But to become a leader of a craftworld, the eldar must be a master of all the aspects.

 johnscott10 wrote:
It sounds like they got the model for this game well off. I hate Orks with a passion so locking me into paying to not play as Orks is very off putting.

Now I may not be a games designer but I feel this would have worked in favor for them:

Choose a starting race: CSM, SM, Orks, Eldar.

If the player wanted to play another faction then they had to buy a new Character slot: up to £5 at most I would say.

Progression wise I would like to see:

CSM:
Custist to Cultist Champion
Cultist Champion to CSM
CSM to CSM Champion

Then it splits off into 3 paths:

CSM Champ to Havoc
CSM Champ to Raptor
CSM Champ to Terminator

I mean I have now given a reason as to why to level through the same content 3 times, to change the end result.

Now I'm not familiar with SM, Orks or Eldar so not 100% how to progress for them.

I really feel that this 40K MMO would work well if it was developed similar to Planetside 2.

Now I may have missed things mentioned in this thread, I did skim read alot of it.

I would much more prefer this.

Best suggestion ive read actually to the current system of progression, rather than some of the trollish posts.

I would also like it to be like planetside 2, pick your faction and stick with it.

AWesker1976 wrote:

 johnscott10 wrote:

Now I'm not familiar with SM, Orks or Eldar so not 100% how to progress for them.

Orks:

Start as one of da boyz ( shoota, slugga, loota, storm, stikkbomma ) -> survive fights, grow bigga -> Nob -> survive fights, grow bigga, kill current warboss -> Warboss

Special exceptions: Mekboy, Painboy, Weird Boy, Big Mek

.

I wouldn't think that surviving the fight should be a goal for Ork players. Certainly, the game shouldn't reward it. A dead Ork turns into spores, and his genetic memory returns in a new Ork body- they are arguably the only race other than Tyranids, that have a fluffy reason for respawning. Instead, reward them for how much damage they can cause. Obviously, if they can survive they'll cause more damage, but if they see a wall go down every boy should be running to be in the first wave, not lurking until it is safe to sneak in and pick up a few more survival points to grow to Nob size.

 johnscott10 wrote:

Cultist Champion to CSM

Not to be a downer, but it wouldn't really make sense fluff-wise. Unless you play a cultist who is a young, male child, you can't become an Astartes. And having child PCs probably wouldn't happen, for obvious reasons.

Some sort of CSM initiate would make sense. Sorta like a Chaos equivilant to SM Scouts.