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I recently played in the Ard Boyz tournament in Pueblo Co. I spent a long time doing some research here on the Dakka forums and about a week prior to the tournament I managed to play each scenario multiple times in order to prepare for a tough fight. Well, I believe it really paid off. However I was totally blindsided by a ruling that caused me to take 2nd place instead of first. I will give a brief explanation of what happened and would appreciate some feedback. Maybe they were right, but I am strong believer in "2nd place is the first loser" and Id love to tell the Judge that he was fething wrong and have a ruling to back me. Here we go...
First off I brought a very well rounded IG army to the tourney. I was hoping to catch people offguard with my highly mobile army that was backed by plenty of high strength pie plates and AP weapons.
First round I ran into a GK player that was relying on his cheese way too much, his tactics were fail and by the end of the 2nd turn all he had left was a partial squad of Purifiers, a damaged Dreadnaught, an immobilized Land Raider and a couple immobilized Rhinos. Third turn I mopped up the Purifiers, finished off the Rhinos, destroyed his Land Raider but failed to get to his Dreadnaught that took refuge behind a large building so I couldnt see it. He then was able to get his Terminator Squad on the board at the end of the third turn. They dropped directly in front of every AP 1 and 2 weapon in my army and I was truly excited to unload on them after they were done shooting one of the 7 squads that surrounded him. Note the the Dreadnaught also came out of hiding so I had another easy kill point waiting for me. I also was less than 6 inches away from scoring my final 3 Bonus Points! I was thinking to myself while I picked up my PCS that he decided to unload on "Wow Im about to get max points (26) for my first round victory!"
Then before turn 4 started, my opponent picked up his models and walked out of the tourney... I tried to stop him but he insisted. I had to call the judge over to clarify what happened.
The judge didnt even know what to do at first.
After they turned to the Internet to find an anwser they decided that because he conceeded in such a manner I was to be awarded a massacre victory result and I was able to keep any bonus points Id earned.
The problem is that because he quit I was unable to move my Chimera 6 inches onto his board edge and claim my 3 bonus points. Giving me 23 Points instead of the 26 I deserved.
Long story short, my next two rounds were much closer and resulted in a minor victory and a draw. I ended the day with 50 overall points. The person who won the tournament had 51...
Im just curious if this is how its supposed to be handled. Seems like a pretty gray area and just wanted to know if there is in fact an official ruling on conceeding a match in Ard Boyz Tournament.

I would of got the judge when my opponent was trying to leave in the middle of a match. It's not like it's a game at the FLGS. It's a tournament. You take your loss and move on with the tournament. He sounds like he was a sore loser. As for the points, you can't get the points if you don't have an opponent to play. It doesn't matter how crappy it was if he left in the middle of a match. Sounds like you did good anyway.

Sounds like he got sold on the 'unbeatable' GK hype they were shovelling, and got convinced that every model in his army was fluff-Draigo

I would ahve given you full points and any mission bonus points available, if it were my tournament, but in the end it's down to the TO.

Yeah, thats what they said. It just sucks that a player can basically deny another player points like that. Oh well, and thanks btw, it was nice to bring in 2nd place I just wish I wouldve won the tournament.

This is really a more suitable question for whoever is running 'ard Boyz than for this forum.


If I was running the event, I would have allowed you however many turns of movement you would have had if the game played to completion if that would have an effect on mission scores. It's not unheard of for the game to be declared over at the point that your opponent concedes, though.

Yea, My opponent actually pointed out to me that when they'res nothing left of his on the field the game is over


Sucks you got screwed by a sad panda though

I thought that you were still allowed to move stuff around even after your opponent was dead in ard boyz?

You also have to consider that your pairings might have been different with 3 more points, so you may have gotten less bp's off a tougher 2nd round opponent and still ended up at 50.

Happygrunt wrote:I thought that you were still allowed to move stuff around even after your opponent was dead in ard boyz?

Sure didn't see that in the ArdBoyz Rules
I know it's not in the 40k rulebook as it states the opposite

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:I thought that you were still allowed to move stuff around even after your opponent was dead in ard boyz?

Sure didn't see that in the ArdBoyz Rules
I know it's not in the 40k rulebook as it states the opposite

There is no rule in the rulebook that states that the game is over once your opponent has nothing left. Wipe-out only says that you win the game if your opponent has nothing left the end of the game, this is to clarify that if you wipe-out your opponent that you win even if the opponent scored more KP, or you were unable to capture an objective by the end of the game.

The game only ends at turn 5-7, unless specified otherwise. Usually in a tournament it also ends when you run out of time.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:I know it's not in the 40k rulebook as it states the opposite

Where in the rules does it state this?

Think you had a crap situation with crap people, we had a situation in game one where he table his opponent at end of 5, and to see if the winner could get the rest of points they rolled to we if it would go to turn 6, it did he moved, rolled to see if it would go to 7 nope, he was 3 in away but was happy he at least got the right amount of time to get his points, because sometimes you plan to move later in the game and if you table your opponent before then, then you should get the rest of the turns the game was allowed to finish getting what you could.

I mean look at scenario 2 if you table your opponent turn 2 and you have 3 of 5 objectives you would have 2 more turns before the game is over to move your units to see if you can get all 5, in BRB it says you are the winner if your opponent is annilated, (if I'm not mistake it's not on hand but I'm pretty sure) it dose t say the game is over.

I had a situation likethat for me in a tourney that Held me back from a win but diddnt ruin the tourney for me but, we each Ayer had a command centre that we had to kill it stated who ever kills it first is the winner it diddnt say the game was over, well I was all drop pods with a Bt army so had to roll for reserves and he had turn 1 so he killed my command centre before I was on the board so yes he won, but it just said he was the winner notthat the game was over, so we played on and I tabled him by turn 5 he was still the winner but I got all the bonus BP

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Yea, My opponent actually pointed out to me that when they'res nothing left of his on the field the game is over

Unless this is a rule specific to the event you are playing in, there is no such rule.

Remember the ard boys rule "don't be a git" that falls in there if you ask me just be a good sport

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:I thought that you were still allowed to move stuff around even after your opponent was dead in ard boyz?

Sure didn't see that in the ArdBoyz Rules
I know it's not in the 40k rulebook as it states the opposite

The 40K rulebook actually states exactly this; BRB page 90, Wipeout!: "Regardless of the victory conditions, if at the end of any standard mission your enemy has no units left on the table, you win the game!"

As you can see the game does not end until the dice have said the game ends, or turn 7 has ended.

Of course once most players have lost their last available unit the game tends to end, but in a point-dependent tourney without any specific rules to countermand this, you may just decide to keep playing until the scenario ends so that you can maneuver to gain the most points after decimating your opponent.

well than I was duped at Ardboyz too ... couldve gotten 68 pts instead of 65 -_-

Now that you are armed with the Emperor's grace and the Emperor's knowledge, get back out there and score more points, guardsmen!

Also, be aware that we're getting one side of the story. In my experience, it takes a lot for someone to simply pick up his models and leave before a game is even over. Usually, if someone doesn't want to play, they ask "You wanna call it?", but rarely are they pushed to simply give up.

Point is, judge's word is final. It doesn't matter what we say - what the TO ruled was what the TO ruled.

"Things without all remedy treat without regard. What's done is done." - The Tragedy of Macbeth, William Shakespeare

puma713 wrote:Also, be aware that we're getting one side of the story. In my experience, it takes a lot for someone to simply pick up his models and leave before a game is even over. Usually, if someone doesn't want to play, they ask "You wanna call it?", but rarely are they pushed to simply give up.

Point is, judge's word is final. It doesn't matter what we say - what the TO ruled was what the TO ruled.

"Things without all remedy treat without regard. What's done is done." - The Tragedy of Macbeth, William Shakespeare

Oh, now you have done it. The forum is DOOMED!

But I agree, TO's word is law. Sorry to hear about how close you were.

puma713 wrote:Also, be aware that we're getting one side of the story. In my experience, it takes a lot for someone to simply pick up his models and leave before a game is even over. Usually, if someone doesn't want to play, they ask "You wanna call it?", but rarely are they pushed to simply give up.

Being tabled in the first round of a tournament is a fairly common impetus for just walking out. Particularly for players who have walked in expecting to do well.

That was a d**k move on the GK ( ) player's part, but it was his fault. Unfortunately, 50-51 . That's just how the cookie crumbles. sorry.

Honestly I wouldn't sweat it, as far as 'Ard Boyz goes, placing in the prelims is just the price of admission to the real event, the semis and its 2500 army prize.

At the end of the day 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the prelims is the same, it means you get to play in the real event for the real prize.

You should have been allowed to get the max number of points available, if you could move your models to the objectives with the number of turns left. But, as others have said, you could have also had a poor round 2 match up and come out worse than 50pts overall.

A win at the preliminaries is a win. What you want is to win at the semi's. So good luck on that.

I didn't even get to play this year, I'm so bummed.

Kommissar Kel wrote:The 40K rulebook actually states exactly this; BRB page 90, Wipeout!: "Regardless of the victory conditions, if at the end of any standard mission your enemy has no units left on the table, you win the game!"

As you can see the game does not end until the dice have said the game ends, or turn 7 has ended.

Of course once most players have lost their last available unit the game tends to end, but in a point-dependent tourney without any specific rules to countermand this, you may just decide to keep playing until the scenario ends so that you can maneuver to gain the most points after decimating your opponent.

[Devils Advocate]However 'Ard Boyz is most certainly not a "standard mission". So even if he left the table you did not automatically win, as it is not a standard mission.[/Devils Advocate]

Should you have got the points? Yes you controlled the battlefield.

For gods sake, it's only a game, he should grow up and just accept it, play on and have some fun.

Cheers

Andrew

This came up during our ard boyz.

The consensus seems to be if your opponent concedes, you get a massacre, but you have the remaining turns to attempt to get as many bonus points as possible.

Seems quite fair and logical imho.

Sadly, not how things worked at our Prelims. My first round opponent also packed up and left, right after I deployed my Foot Eldar, before he placed a single model on the board.

I was rewarded with a minor victory. Overall I came in second. No big deal really. Would the Massacre points have been nice? absolutely. I probably could have gotten them too if we had played the game.

IG Cadian , sounds like you kicked butt anyway and you advanced to next round . Congratulations and chances are that, that will never happen again.

That guy was a jerk.

Sounds nice. The guy I played in 2nd Round was a complete dickface. He kept badmouthing me after I raped most of his army in a simply lucky round of shooting. Then he tried pulling a stunt of saying that I had an extra 100pts because he was some Tau Guru and said that my math was wrong. It escalated to him smashing his vendetta into the ground into a million pieces and storming off. I muttered:

"gak happens" followed by everyone bursting out in laughter.


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Oh my bad lol well you know what i mean

thats the kinda guy you drop in the parking lot.

I hear all kinds of horror stories about 'ard boyz but have NEVER had a problem at them. Oh well.