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Now i know that there's no possible way for me to win playing chaos marines vs grey knights lol, but does anyone hav any suggestions for a army list that would allow me to not get my arse handed to me to badly

Hmm, there are at least three competitive CSM lists: Rhino based with CSM, Chosen, and Havocs w/ special weapons mounted in Rhinos and led by Sorcerers w/ lash of submission. MC-based with lots of MCs (DPs, GD, Dreads, Defilers, Daemons as troops), and the all-mighty PM based list (DPs, PM and Berzerkers in Rhinos, Obliterators, Termicide).

wuestenfux wrote:Hmm, there are at least three competitive CSM lists: Rhino based with CSM, Chosen, and Havocs w/ special weapons mounted in Rhinos and led by Sorcerers w/ lash of submission. MC-based with lots of MCs (DPs, GD, Dreads, Defilers, Daemons as troops), and the all-mighty PM based list (DPs, PM and Berzerkers in Rhinos, Obliterators, Termicide).

You'll need one of those. And ALOT of luck.

or rigged dice. lol

Leonus Cohol wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Hmm, there are at least three competitive CSM lists: Rhino based with CSM, Chosen, and Havocs w/ special weapons mounted in Rhinos and led by Sorcerers w/ lash of submission. MC-based with lots of MCs (DPs, GD, Dreads, Defilers, Daemons as troops), and the all-mighty PM based list (DPs, PM and Berzerkers in Rhinos, Obliterators, Termicide).

You'll need one of those. And ALOT of luck.

or rigged dice. lol

I'd go for a monster mash list, with 2 DPs, GD, 3 Dreads, and 3 Defilers.

The problem with an AV/MC bash list is that psyflemen will eat your crazed metal alive. They can and will efficiently remove any long range fire you have. They even ID Oblits if they can get the wound to stick.

Even getting princes into melee with purifiers or terminators is iffy, since they're rerolling misses, probably wounding on 4+, likely striking first, and going against the 5+ invuln instead of 3+. You're also taking a Ld test on every wound to avoid getting removed by daemonbane. And that's just assuming you don't get torrented away by psycannon fire.

I think you're best off going with the rhino-based CSM heavy lists and avoiding melee. it takes advantage of the relative scarcity of low AP on sturdy platforms in the codex. Plague Marines are probably not a great choice since if the GKs get into close combat, hammerhand and cutting through armor/FNP makes them look really expensive.

In fact, GKs are tough to beat these days. Instead of PM, you could use NM with doom siren and Berzerkers. Moreover, TS work great against GK in power armor when they are in the open.

Monster Mash has lost a lot of ground lately.

Rhino Spam has been working for me lately.

whitedragon wrote:Monster Mash has lost a lot of ground lately.

Rhino Spam has been working for me lately.

Master Mash lost ground recently?
Well, this army has lots of tough units and is hard to beat in cc - its a bit slow but it has decent shooting abilities while advancing (Dreads, Defilers, Tzeentch DP).

I've drew with Gk at my best... Even that was tough! God damn those overpowered shining silver guys!

wuestenfux wrote:

whitedragon wrote:Monster Mash has lost a lot of ground lately.

Rhino Spam has been working for me lately.

Master Mash lost ground recently?
Well, this army has lots of tough units and is hard to beat in cc - its a bit slow but it has decent shooting abilities while advancing (Dreads, Defilers, Tzeentch DP).

- Shooty Space Marines (All Flavors)
- Imperial Guard
- Eldar
- Dark Eldar

The following armies shoot alot harder than the Monster Mash, and pack some other tricks that shut down Chaos CC elements. Monster Mash also doesn't have any psychic defense, which hurts against the majority of lists above. You also really only have 8 shooting attacks if you really max it out, 2 "bolts" (although most people use Lash Princes in this build), 3x weapons from the dreads (that are safer in CC or unable to shoot because of being crazed or shaken/stunned) and 3x Battlecannons from the Defilers. It's really not alot of firepower, and the AV12 isn't all that great against S8 spam that the majority of armies above have.

If someone isn't playing very shooty, then the Monster Mash will walk all over them like something that walks all over things, but if they are running a lean, mean, hypershooty MSU style army, you may as well pack up. Heck, even 30x Deathwing Terminators will wreck the monster mash.

I haven't tried this yet (and am not likely too), but 6 land raiders should work well...or at least not lose too badly. To get the 3 extra land raiders, take 3x3 terminator squads. Fill the land raiders with 5 man CSM squads to make them effectively all scoring.

Your whole theory with this list is not to die, rather than simply trying to kill your opponent.

Or you can do what I did, and simply buy a Grey Knights army, and shelve the Chaos until such time as they are improved...

Whitedragon: I agree that a shooty list can eventually take apart a Monster Mash list. But shooting is often ineffective these days; even penetrating hits can end up with shaken or stunned results. So if the enemy has bad luck with shooting, it can also walk over it.

Plasmaguns and Oblits kill shiny power armor just like any other power armor. The good old Plasmagun has gone out of use in the Melta/Mech meta but I think it's finding a place again with all the GK armies running around. Chosen with 5 Plasmaguns has made it into a few of my Black Legion lists for the first time since early 5th because of all the power/termie armor.

Henchmen are handled just like IG.

Draigowing is countered with 3 vindicators and a lot of melta guns.

PAGK + Psyflemen are the real problem.

9 Oblits, 2 lash sorcerers placed within units, and either vanilla CSM or thousand sons for troops.

GK don't tend to have librarians because they have too many great HQs to choose from. Lash should work, but not on a prince. GK are just too good at killing a prince. Purifiers are scary, but not if they get a lash+plasma cannon combo.

Vanilla CSM can carry 2 melta guns in a Rhino with a combi melta. They can open a GK's transport for the lash. They are also good all around flexible unit, and not expensive.

Plague marines are not much good against GK. Hammerhand + forceweapons=dead PM.

Honestly, they don't need a librarian against Lash. With all those dreads, you're casting Lash on LD6 due to Improved Aegis.

But despite that, I still think dual-lash may still be your best bet against the new GK's.

Lash is good. Even at ld6, but it won't always be ld6 if any GK's move away from the dreads. (and btw not all GK lists have dreads) Oblits can outrange the psycannons and shrug off a few autocannon rounds as they pop rhinos until the chosen show up on a flank in a rhino with 5 meltaguns. The chosen can methodically go through the Dreads as the Sorcerers lash the troops away from them for no counter assault.

It's not perfect, but it can work.