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I've recently been given a FW Eldar hornet (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Eldar/ELDAR-HORNET.html).

So, my question is simple: does anyone have experience using this model, and any advice on how to use arm/use it.

Much appreciated.

From the rules there, I would say that it has plenty of uses. Firstly, it's a far superior to a Vyper, as it has high enough armor to be able to not sweat bolter fire as well as not being open topped. This means that real, actual Anti-Tank weapons will be required to deal with it. Now while it likely won't be able to stand up to these very well, it's important because it's another target that divides the attention of this limited reacource in an enemy army, which is likely already busy dealing with wave serpents/falcons. Any shot taken at one is a shot not taken at another.

As for roles, I can see two right off the bat. The first is that of a cheapo-tank-opportunity hunter. It's a fast skimmer with free Star Engines and Scout. Give it a pair of Shuriken Cannons and have it whip around plugging the rear armor of tanks with str 6 shots. It'll be annoying, and if it is shot down, well, it was only 65pts. You could do a more expensive verion of this if you wanted it to stick around a little longer, by giving it a holo-field, spirirt stones and maybe upping the Shuriken Cannons to Scatter Lasers. This almost doubles the cost, however, bringing it in at 120pts. Now, it should be said that the survivability is also noticeably upped, as holo-fields are wonderfully annoying at turning any glance/pen into nothing more than a shaken result... which means that in the next shooting phase it is free to zip around with it's Star Engines instead. So, light raider, super cheap and annoying, or slightly pricey and super annoying.

The other role I could see for it would be more that of a long range gunship. This is the most expensive of the options, as it requires a pair of Pulse Lasers, a Holo-Field, and likely Spirirt Stones, meaning that it wieghs in at a hefty 180pts. However, it's got wonderful firepower, with 4 Str 8 AP 2 shots with a very respectable range, and also able to move 6" and let loose with all of it. The Holofield is there to protect it from long-range return fire. With only BS 3, it would benefit very much from a Farseer Guiding it. However, the most important thing about this set up is that it is a mobile platform that can lay down considerable firepower which doesn't use up any of your Heavy Support slots, something that's more of an advantage than it seems.

Hope this helps.
Cheers.

The Hornet is awesome! It is by far the best Eldar FA choice. If your playgroup allows FW rules, run this thing. I mean, 10 points more than a Vyper for free Star Engines, 1pt higher armor, the removal of open-topped, and the ability to get 2 heavy weapons? This thing is undercosted.

I would never give this any vehicle upgrades. It's a cheap little thing, don't waste points giving it unnecessary upgrades. For weapons, it's a tough call. But, I think I like EML for the 1st weapon. That way, you can move 12" and fire the EML defensively. For the 2nd weapon, I'd go either Cannon, Scatter Laser, or EML. That would make this a significant threat to just about anything.

I'm also tempted to go with Panzerboy's suggestion of arming it to the teeth. Keep three of these in a squad, all with Pulse Lasers, give them guide and then point to a unit and the unit dies. (Well, 9 hits on average, but still... a great way to deal with Nobs or Paladins).


And, I'd also like to point out that they have Scouts, so make sure to always use that to insure they get SMF.

I would be inclined to agree with the above post. Cheap target saturation is probably the optimum role, and the opponent really cannot afford to ignore it, which is the most important thing. The gunplatform sounds appealing, but it is still only AV11, so I would imagine in more serious games, the best option is 2 Shuriken Cannons and Vectored Engines. For me, a chance to drop the 1/2 chance to die from a penetrating hit on the first, "boost" turn to a 1/3 chance to die is worth 10 points. Other than that, keep em cheap, and if possible I would consider investing in a couple more of them. 225 points for three abalative targets to drag fire away from your serpents that have the potential to pop the odd tank is a good deal, and they're sitting in fast attack slots, which is an area without many competitive choices.

On a somewhat similar theme (and i apologise for semi-derailing the thread) I don't believe there has been a proper discussion of the new eldar vehicles.

The Wasp is actually really interesting, because though it is essentially just a slightly more durable War Walker, you can take it as a troops choice, which is once again relieving pressure on our sorely constrained Heavy Support slots.

The Warp Hunter is possibly not quite so good, but given that it only costs 125 points, I suspect it may be an interesting choice for certain armies. Versus heavy infantry, the Aether Rift could be devastating, provided you can get within range. The good news is that it has something to do while it gets there. If you face necrons fairly frequently, it would really excel there, able to mow down warriors and break open monoliths without too much difficulty. Likewise, it may be useful against Tyranids if they go monstrous-creature heavy. I don't think it's something for all comers super-competetive lists, but against certain armies (Grey Knights?) it will easily make 125 points back. You could also chuck a Holo-field on and try to hit some tanks, since a 3+ to prevent shooting is also pretty nice.

The Wraithseer is probably something Elfzilla lists will really like, as it lets them have five monstrous creatures, four of which have toughness eight. If you play a themed Iyanden list, it's also an excellent choice, give its ability to buff nearby Wraithguard/Wraithlords. It is also capable of carrying a D-cannon in addition to other heavy weapons, and with a 5++ it's pretty damn tough. Overall, it's a decent choice, but more of a fluff thing than anything else.

I may as well talk about the Shadow Spectres as well, since they are also new. They seem expensive but interesting, given that they can JsJ with a TL S10 lance. With hit 'n' run, they can't be tied up in combat either, and at short range versus eg. terminators, you are wounding on 2+ and ignoring saves, and can JsJ out of assault range. 202 points is pretty steep, though, and I'm thinking you want the full size and Cynosure to keep things effective. They get acute senses as well, which has niche use in DoW.

I was gonna add to this, but you all seem to have it covered.

Thanks guys, much appreciated. I'll keep this all in mind.

Panzerboy/Grakmar: I was thinking the same thing about it being a good FA option. More staying power than the Vyper, and it allows me to field whatever I want in my HS slots.

Vampire Hunter: No worries about derailing the thread, I'm quite happy you did. I'm a huge fan of most of what FW does, and I do have my eye on the Wasp, and the Avatar (because the model is bitchin').

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
The Wasp is actually really interesting, because though it is essentially just a slightly more durable War Walker, you can take it as a troops choice, which is once again relieving pressure on our sorely constrained Heavy Support slots.

The Jump Jets are certainly interesting, that's for sure. A 30" Assault is damn impressive. Sure, the things aren't all that great in Melee, but from 30" away, they should be able to hit most things that don't like melee in general, like 5-6 man Long Fang Squads, Guard Units, Lootas, etc.

Them being a Troops choice (though not scoring) is pretty cool, simply because it gives the list some elbow room, as our Elites and Heavys are already full in mosts lists as it is.

And oh, the MOST important thing about them, something so small that it's very easy to miss. They are Ballistic Skill 4.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
I may as well talk about the Shadow Spectres as well, since they are also new. They seem expensive but interesting, given that they can JsJ with a TL S10 lance. With hit 'n' run, they can't be tied up in combat either, and at short range versus eg. terminators, you are wounding on 2+ and ignoring saves, and can JsJ out of assault range. 202 points is pretty steep, though, and I'm thinking you want the full size and Cynosure to keep things effective. They get acute senses as well, which has niche use in DoW.

They're an odd mix between Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, and Warp Spiders. They have the Anti-Tank ability of Fire Dragons at Dark Reaper range, the anti-marine ability of Dark Reapers at Fire Dragon range, and the 'move up, shoot, move back' dodgyness of Warp Spiders.

Honestly I think that they will be wonderful in games of Apocolypse. That Ghost-Light shot will work wonders vs all of the big stuff running around the table in those games.

However, for normal games of 40k, I think that they simply don't have the survivability to be worth their points. 4+/5+ and a small unit size simply doesn't cut it, especially considering how much of a threat they are to your opponent's big shiny stuff. They will have a target painted on their heads, and they will be shot. The unit goes down significantly in effectiveness for each model it loses.

Overall, they are a very cool unit, with an odd mix of abilites that will be of use in big games. However, in normal 2,000ish point games of 40k, they're a bit too easy to kill, and we have better things to spend both our points and Heavy Support slots on.

They can be used for target saturation and filling gaps in the shooty combat line. But the same role can be filled by Vypers. They are cheaper, have the same BS, and have access to the same weaponry (no pulse laser).
The point of using Vypers in a mech force is to put pressure upon the enemy such that it has a tough choice to target the Vypers or the more valuable units.

I've run them with twin scatter lasers and also with twin pulse lasers. Both set ups were good. Hornets are always good. This is just a superb vehicle.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:The Wasp is actually really interesting, because though it is essentially just a slightly more durable War Walker, you can take it as a troops choice, which is once again relieving pressure on our sorely constrained Heavy Support slots.

The Wasp and the War Walker have the same durability. I think people tend to get misled by the flavour text for the Wasp which mentions that it provides additional protection to the pilot, but people might be assuming that this is in comparison to a War Walker rather than in comparison to running around in light infantry armour.

The Wasp can deepstrike, which allows for dropping in sacrificial units behind critical enemy targets, e.g. to chew up rear armour. Which is handy.

Rumours are that (allegedly) it'll lose its 30" assault move.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:The Warp Hunter is possibly not quite so good, but given that it only costs 125 points, I suspect it may be an interesting choice for certain armies. Versus heavy infantry, the Aether Rift could be devastating, provided you can get within range. The good news is that it has something to do while it gets there. If you face necrons fairly frequently, it would really excel there, able to mow down warriors and break open monoliths without too much difficulty. Likewise, it may be useful against Tyranids if they go monstrous-creature heavy. I don't think it's something for all comers super-competetive lists, but against certain armies (Grey Knights?) it will easily make 125 points back. You could also chuck a Holo-field on and try to hit some tanks, since a 3+ to prevent shooting is also pretty nice.

Yup, the Warp Hunter is fantastic against heavy infantry. The aether rift shot will probably get more use than the standard shot. Having a flamer template weapon on a fast skimmer is great, and just gets better as you add more terrain to the table. It suffers a bit against models with more than a single wound, as it'll leave behind a fair number of angry enemy models. Solution: take two.

The thing to keep in mind with the Warp Hunter is that it has the same chance to kill/damage everything. So you're much better off going for better protected targets. Against a Land Raider it has better performance than a Brightlance (or a Lascannon).

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:I may as well talk about the Shadow Spectres as well, since they are also new. They seem expensive but interesting, given that they can JsJ with a TL S10 lance. With hit 'n' run, they can't be tied up in combat either, and at short range versus eg. terminators, you are wounding on 2+ and ignoring saves, and can JsJ out of assault range. 202 points is pretty steep, though, and I'm thinking you want the full size and Cynosure to keep things effective. They get acute senses as well, which has niche use in DoW.

Rumours are that (allegedly) these guys will get a bit cheaper and maybe have a longer range when shooting individually.

These chaps have deep strike which is all kinds of useful. As they have jetpacks they can 'de-clump' on the turn they arrive, reducing the impact of blast and template weapons against them. They're a bit on the pricey side for a deepstrike into the enemy lines, though from time to time that might be useful. For anti-vehicle (up to 36") the best combo in terms of performance is a full squad and a haywire blaster and cynosure for the Exarch. Stating the obvious but the haywire blaster has a fixed performance against vehicles, so the better protected the target the better. An obvious use for them is to be behind terrain that blocks LOS, scoot out and shoot something, then using the jetpack they can scoot back out of LOS.

@Splog: I was actually under the impression that War Walkers were Open-Topped, and hence these were slightly more duruable, but now I actually think about it, they're not. That's what I get for commenting on these things without a codex to hand -.- . Anywho, I'll be honest, I hadn't noticed Wasps were BS4, and I hadn't really considered the Jump Jet/Alphastrike potential there too. You could potentialy take a couple and against armies which rely a lot on one unit for anti-transport, such as the aformentioned Long Fangs/Lootas or potentially say Hive Guard, you could do a reasonable job of locking them up almost the whole game. Coupled with increased target saturation, they have the potential to put the opponent in a very tight position indeed.
I also think it would be interesting to get some calcs and see how effective 3x Hornet with dual shuricannons is versus rear armour 10/11. (I'm thinking russes, Hammerheads and battlewagons as prime target due to low rear armour and expense - 195 points is beyond the realm of cheap, so they may just be better as a trio of individuals - it's not like we have anything good to go there anyway. Cheap Wasps at 55 points deepstriking behind enemy lines seems pretty cool as well, though the wording is confusing. Can you take more than one Wasp squadron? I would be tempted to go 2x DA 1x SG 3x cheapo wasp as sacraficial harrassers/saturators/strategic ombat vehicles. If 55 points doesn't get to shoot because it' stuck in combat with long fangs, it's no real loss. The only issue would be KP games, since 3x Hornet and 3x Wasp is 6x Easy Kill Point. Still, definately interesting options.

It's going to die very quickly. Give that little guy holo-fields.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:I also think it would be interesting to get some calcs and see how effective 3x Hornet with dual shuricannons is versus rear armour 10/11. (I'm thinking russes, Hammerheads and battlewagons as prime target due to low rear armour and expense - 195 points is beyond the realm of cheap, so they may just be better as a trio of individuals - it's not like we have anything good to go there anyway.

A Shuriken Cannon shot that hits has a 1/3 chance to be rolling on the damage table for AV11 (about 31% chance to do anything if you discount rolling a 1 on a glancing hit).

Hornet's are BS3, so from shooting each Shuriken Cannon shot has a 1/6 chance to be rolling on the damage table.

3x Hornets with two Shuriken Cannons have a potential 18 shots. So the typical/expected number of rolls is 3.

You've got a 4% chance of not rolling on the damage table at all. Your main cluster of results is 1-5 rolls on the damage table (90%), with the core of that being 2-4 rolls on the damage table (65%).

Doing the same with Wasps (BS4) you get:

Most likely outcome: 4 rolls on the damage table.

You've got a 1% chance of not rolling on the damage table at all. Your main cluster of results is 2-6 rolls on the damage table (85%) with the main cluster being 3-5 (60%). Or another way of putting it the Hornet squadron will get 3 or more rolls 60% of the time, the Wasps 80%.


Potentially some errors in there; it's been about 13 years since I've looked at binomial distributions!

With the Hornet model, be prepared to do some innovative pinning. The entire model, with the exception of the non-Pulse Laser guns, will be resin. Have a cup of 60-100 degrees Celsius water standing by to straighten out the bent Pulse Laser (it will be bent!) and any other parts that might be off. The entire model is more or less 3 parts, plus minor details and weapons. Especially the pilot model is superb, not to mention that more likely than not you'll not even need glue to fit the pilot into the cockpit - it's that good a fit. The problem is the lower section, the engine section, which does not have a perfect fit however you look at it. You'll need to cut a lot of intentional flash, file it so the two sections fit better, and even then it will come down to whether your a master with glue or not.
Personally I've got one assembled with GW super glue and it seems to be holding well, a second which I have to pin regardless of what glue I use, and a third I haven't yet tried to assemble since I noticed I've run out of Falcon-shaped box space (I guess I'll send KR another 150 Euro soon ).

The rumour on the Wasp is, more specifically, that you won't be allowed to assault after making the jump-pack move. Which is fine. They won't remove the jump-pack move since the selling point of the model are two medium sized thrusters, extra engine details (which after immersion into hot water fits extremely well), and two extra steering thrusters.
I just can't grasp how the Wasp's special weapon mount is supposed to be used, but it's adequately supplied with standard weapon mount, which leaves me with another 6+ unused pin-hole heavy weapon sprue.

The Warp Hunter is a beast on paper, but I hear it fares poorly in game. The rumour is that they're going to look over the rules for it and improve it. It has been specifically mentioned to be in for a buff when IA11 arrives. As for it's model, again you'll need boiling water. What you get in the package is a Fire Prism set (without the transparent prism parts, so you can only dual-fit it for a Night Spinner - if you do NOT fit the stabilizing fins to the rear section) with a weapons mount that's slightly tricky to magnetize due to how thin it is (it's not a turret, btw) and extra hotness for the vehicles rear-section. Personally I love this model, though I since my gaming group has not seen a single game this summer I haven't used it.

Grakmar wrote:The Hornet is awesome! It is by far the best Eldar FA choice. If your playgroup allows FW rules, run this thing. I mean, 10 points more than a Vyper for free Star Engines, 1pt higher armor, the removal of open-topped, and the ability to get 2 heavy weapons? This thing is undercosted.

I'd say it's the Vyper (and Eldar codex in general) which is overpriced. But if you are used to pay extra for sleek design and hi-def audio system, then I suppose this is your K-Mart Rolls Royce.
Keep in mind that all of those heavy weapons cost you your shirt and a little more (except the Scatter Laser or Shurican) and you must fill two slots.

Interesting. Forgeworld says that the Hornet has resin Pulse Lasers as well as a heavy weapons sprue. Can any tell me what does the sprue have?

Further more, what kind of weapons that comes with the wasp kit?