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Howdy!

Last night we ran into a scenario where I rang the SB and got deafening peals (D3 wounds to all T7+ models). The problem was that the HE players unit of spearmen were T7 because of the LoL spell. We had no idea how to actually deal with the situation. Do we start rolling for wounds for each spearman? Do they even take wounds? Would they get armor saves against said wounds?

Thats a problematic one for sure. The issue being do you check for the base statline T value or the boosted stat value.

I would think, in the absence of any actual wording leading us one way or the other (unless someone else can find a rule in the BRB), you test on the current value. Each model would then suffer D3 wounds.

That in itself is tricky, as most of the time a single wound model is not affected by the multiple wounds rule. Peals isn't classified as multiple wounds though, just D3 wounds.

The only thing I am pretty clear on is that armour saves would be allowed. Unless otherwise noted, you are allowed to take your armour saves against wounds. The attack does not give you a S value, nor does it say "with no armour saves allowed" so you could save against it.

Every spearman takes d3 wounds with armor saves allowed, that means up to three saves per guy since unlike multiple wounds these happen before saving. Its a nice once in a long while way to destroy lifestars.

Mmmk. The general consensus that it works, but they get their armor saves (How do you get armor saves from noise though xD I sometimes hate this game).

There could be any number of possible explanations that will make just as much sense (or lack of sense) as the idea that a bell rung by a bunch of Rat Men can destroy a bunch of Elves.

In other words, reality and common sense don't really have much of a place in the Warhammer universe.... sadly

Maybe all their helmets come with earmuffs

Well, I don't think it's too weird to imagine that a big, magically loud and resonant bell can crack and destroy a bunch of elves that have been turned to living stone.

The amour thing is less clear. Still, you're killing basically the whole unit with essentially no effort. I'd be okay with allowing them some armour saves. Instead of rolling Xd3 though, I suppose you could allow him his armour saves, see who survives, and roll that many d3's, to see how many more each of those guys has to make.

It's possibly the funniest and most devastating use of the Bell. Tied--maybe--with collapsing the Folding Fortress.

You get armor saves since the attack doesn't say you don't get any. and it isn't at any specific Strength so it can't reduce the saves.

Well, I don't think it's too weird to imagine that a big, magically loud and resonant bell can crack and destroy a bunch of elves that have been turned to living stone.

This is a great fluff explanation Warp.

As far as the armour thing, you could say that the metal in the High Elves armour has the ability to absorb the resonance through its mystical properties, or some other fantastical explanation.

Still, you're killing basically the whole unit with essentially no effort.

This is the key here too. The entire unit is likely going to be dying regardless of the saves. If each model takes d3 wounds, they also have to save d3 times. This isn't multiple wounds, so it isn't 1 save for the whole lot. If it were multiple wounds, then they would only suffer 1 each regardless. The save on the spearmen is a 5+, and that many wounds would likely wipe out the entire unit.

It's possibly the funniest and most devastating use of the Bell. Tied--maybe--with collapsing the Folding Fortress

Either of these would make me both laugh, and cringe at the same time, if I were the HE player.

This would be really painful to resolve on something like a horde of Phoenix Guard sporting toughness boosted to 7. 30+ models take D3 each, which must individually be armor and ward saved? Blurgh.

you would basically roll a number of D3s equal to the models in the unit, seperating out the Champion and any characters, and roll them. you then take that many armor saves.

It would be just plain devestating. if any models survived I would consider myself lucky, even if there were 50+ models.

Red_Zeke wrote:This would be really painful to resolve on something like a horde of Phoenix Guard sporting toughness boosted to 7. 30+ models take D3 each, which must individually be armor and ward saved? Blurgh.

Wounds to rank and file carry over to other rank and file.
I think you roll them all, then roll all the saves.
Should kill ~66.7% of them.

-Matt

More than that - you're forgetting each gets D3 wounds, and this is *not* after saves but before - so each model gets an average of 2 wounds, meaning with a unit of 50 youre taking about 100 wounds, roughly 33 will save leaving them all dead.

Ah never mind, then. That's not as nightmarish to work out.

I thought there were still things that could double up wounds on single rank and file models (see Pestilent Mucus).

i have to disagree here,

if the rule is 1d3 wounds to each model with a T7, then the excess wounds dont carry over. if you do 3 wounds to 1 guy he dies once and his 2 buddies dont.

i would roll 1d3 per guy, then seperate into groups of 1 2 or 3 wounds then save the groups. so assuming you had 30 man unit

you would get 10 x1 10 x2 10x3, rolling 10 saves at 5+, then 10 saves re-rolling success, then 10 more rolling successes twice,

should leave you with 4-5 guys left in the unit. 3 successes from the first group, 1 from the second and less than one frmo the third.

I was also under the impression that Deafening Peals specifically referred to "each model", but I don't have my army book with me to verify.

Yes, but when models are identical you just roll them all together IIRC.

If the attack is treated as shooting you would carry wounds over to other models. However, in this case, I think lixulana is right.

The bell refers specifically to the models suffering D3 wounds. Each model suffers a random number (D3) of wounds.

Here are two comparisons to the situation (although each comparison is admittedly flawed)

1) Multiple wounds cannonball - If you hit a unit of RNF with a cannonball, you do not work out how many wounds each model takes and then remove total RNF. You cannot kill 30 RNF model with 1 cannonball unless they have 30 ranks and the ball flies through all of them.

The obvious flaw with this comparison is that it is multiple wounds, but it does show that its not always true that wounds carry over onto identical models.

2) Take any spell from the lore of death. Target a single model, take a test, should it fail they suffer a number of wounds. Those wounds also do not carry over onto RNF models. You pick out 1 model and that model is the one that suffers.

The obvious flaw with this comparison is that it targets a single enemy model, and that they are taking a test of some kind. That being said, once again, wounds do not carry over onto identical models.

The situations are different, but the end result is the same. If a "model" is taking wounds, only that model can take those wounds. If a unit is taking wounds, then you have something different entirely. It is as Red_Zeke said, a nightmare to actually roll the results of this. In the interests of speed it would be best to roll 50 D3's. Anything that comes up 1, separate, as well as anything that comes up 2 or 3. With the separate piles, then roll out your saves.

Think of it this way, I roll a d3 for one of my spearmen and it comes up 1. He should take 1 wound. He saves that wound. Using the carryover method, he might then suffer more than 1 wound. That should simply not be the case as the ruling on the bell states that each model suffers a D3 and he suffered only 1. The carryover method in this case breaks that rule, and instead it becomes the unit suffers d3 for every model rather than each model suffers d3.

Of course, interpreting the rule this way also opens up a can of worms when you deal with multiple wound units like Ogres that have had their T value boosted. In that case, instead of removing whole models, you would have a bunch of Ogres that have wounds on them instead.

The real issue with this is that they probably were not taking into account the effects of Flesh to Stone on Deafening Peals when they wrote the rule. Either interpretation leads to an undesireable outcome.