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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 02:23:36
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I want to get into this game, but I can't decide on which faction. I've narrowed it down to Circle, Khador, Retribution of Scyrah and the Protectorate. I've read a lot of stuff on here and BattleCollege and watched battle reports, but I don't know, I'm torn. What I want out of the army is, the ability to dig in and have a chance in a ranged battle, but I want the majority of power to come from melee combatants. I visualize a couple big beasts/jacks doing damage with a larger amount of melee/ranged/support units cleaning up and really being my back-bone. Magic wise, I would rather have spells to either buff my army or prevent the other warcaster from using magic effectively -- I guess you could say it would be nice to "control" as much of his turn as I can. Model-wise, I was immediately drawn to Circle; the idea of Druids using constructs and runes and werewolf-type beasts is almost too much. I also think I would enjoy the Fury system more than the Focus system. I also bought the Primal Mk2 book and the Circle Faction book, both of which are in the mail. However I can always flip the books, no real harm. Khador models are also sick looking, I love the early 20th-century Soviet vibe they give me. Plus I think Vlad is my all-around favorite model and I love to make terrain -- I already have a ton of ideas for terrain to fit a Khadorian(?) army, but I would feel weird making it if they weren't my go-to Faction. Retribution is also really cool, but besides Garryth and Ossyan, their warcasters kind of bore me. As a whole, they remind me of a weird Protoss/Eldar/Lothlorien hodge-podge. They don't seem too popular, which I kind of like, but I've heard their Warjacks suffer under certain Casters, such as they lose weapons/amount of shots/etc depending on which Caster you take. I've heard they're more of an infantry-based army, with a couple Warjacks providing support? I kind of like that, though. RoS is also flooding my head with terrain ideas. I feel like Circle is gimped on terrain -- woodsman like rocks, runes, huts, alters, swamps and graveyards (maybe). Finally, Protectorate. I don't know about these guys. I dig their Warcaster models. I think as a whole, PoM and Circle are tied for coolest Warcaster/Warlock models. I don't know much about the Protectorate, I love their whole model range, but they seem to be very melee-heavy and magic-heavy, almost too much for my taste. They really don't click with me on the whole like Circle/Khador/Retribution, and they're a little too knightly for my taste. Circle is very fantasy-like, but they're Druids. Druids>Knights. So I really don't know where to start.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/08/21 03:35:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 04:32:52
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Wraith
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What I want out of the army is, the ability to dig in and have a chance in a ranged battle, but I want the majority of power to come from melee combatants. I visualize a couple big beasts/jacks doing damage with a larger amount of melee/ranged/support units cleaning up and really being my back-bone. Magic wise, I would rather have spells to either buff my army or prevent the other warcaster from using magic effectively -- I guess you could say it would be nice to "control" as much of his turn as I can.
I'm fairly new to Warmachine, too, but this, this right here sounds like Menoth to me. Many Menite Warcasters have the ability to shut down enemy magic while supporting their own models, Menoth has the second-biggest and toughest Warjacks that can crush face in melee combat, and has a variety of units that support and supplement each other. For example, the Choir of Menoth can make Jack's immune to shooting or magic. Menoth does have some shooting, but it's not the best, if I'm not mistaken.
Cygnar can also do this stuff, and are, in fact, the best shooting faction in the game. They're still quite, quite capable in melee combat. However, they're not on your list.
I don't play Menoth, so if someone who knows the faction better wants to chime in, I will happily defer to their knowledge.
I know pretty much nothing about Hordes armies.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/21 04:38:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 04:43:34
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Maryland
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From the Council of the Nine Voices, over on the PP Forums:
Retribution of Scyrah Melee and Ranged: Well armoured, or stealthy, the warriors of the Retribution are all highly trained, and specialise in destroying their targets. There are three distinct types of units units in the Retribution of Scyrah: the heavily armoured and powerful Dawnguard; the generic fast and adaptable Houseguard; and the stealthy and deadly Mage Hunters. Dawnguard are the elite soldiers of Ios, well trained and boasting the best armour and weapons; they overcome the enemy by strength of arms and resilience. Houseguard are the standard soldiers of IoS boasting weapons superior to their human counterparts and making up for any shortcomings with extensive training and special abilities; they overcome their opponents by quickly adapting to the needs of the situation. Mage Hunters are the traditions 'assassin' models of the Retribution of Scyrah, they are lightly armoured, well trained and tasked with eliminating the stain of human sorcery from the world; they attack the enemy from stealthy positions, with magical weapons ignoring the strongest magical enchantments.
Overall, the offensive abilities of the Retribution of Scyrah are heavily specialised, with models attacking the enemy directly. As a faction they have a general lack of AOEs, sprays and other area wide attacks; but are able to ignore LoS, spells and other rules human spell casters hide behind.
Retribution of Scyrah Magic: Retribution magic tends to focus on two areas, enhancing the factions offense - with spells like snipe, vortex of destruction, mobility, and phantom hunter allowing them to attack harder, faster or when they usually wouldn't; or preventing the enemy's offense - with spells like stranglehold, polarity shield, and banishing ward denying various aspects of the game. They also boast an ability to take a large number of mage models, bringing both offensive magic and movement effects, to help position themselves and the enemy in a preferable position.
Retribution of Scyrah Warjacks: The Warjacks of this faction are, on first appearance, plain standard jacks, they have above average SPD values, but average STR, MAT, RAT, DEF, ARM and below average damage boxes. However, they all have a repairable powerfield protecting them, and each brings a different set of special, generally focus based, abilities. These qualities allow them to fight, in their area of specialisation, better than the standard jacks of any other faction. While these special abilities allow them to excel in one area, their generic core nature also allows them a degree flexability not usually seen in jacks - for instance most of initial heavys are armed equally well for melee as they are for ranged warfare. Overall our jacks tend to fill a role on the battlefield no other models do, and so are commonly fielded in a combined arms approach to warfare.
You've got your ranged capable, but melee heavy infantry... both buff and denial magic... and powerful jacks that favor a combined-arms approach to army styles.
Sounds like you're a Ret player to me!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/08/21 04:46:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 06:08:29
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Bush? No, Eldar Ranger
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Retribution 'jacks are very multi-purpose; they aren't powerhouses in melee, but they can all shoot (except for a couple of the lights). The faction as a whole is built around using its infantry effectively.
Spells - Menoth is what you're describing. They've got a strong anti-magic and support theme going.
Other than that, no particular faction is special when it comes to "support units that clean up in the end", or "ranged support and most of the damage coming from melee". Pretty much any army can be built like that, even Khador.
It sounds like you like Circle more than the others. For Circle terrain, other than the usual wilderness stuff, there are plenty of others you can do:
- Cairns (pile of stones)
- Stonehenge-like structures
- Barrow Mounds (hills turned into mausoleums)
- Sacred circles (rocks with runes and such engraved in them)
- Floating rocks
- Waterfalls and lakes
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 06:53:58
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Well, I've pretty much eliminated Menoth from my options based upon their models. I just don't want to see knights on my side of the table.
I'm also on the fence about Khador, I think they might make a great army to collect later, or even just to buy their army book for the fluff, but my friend is also interested and I KNOW he would go Khador. It could be better to choose something else.
I'm really thinking either Circle or RoS.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 09:39:25
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Regular Dakkanaut
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One thing you should note is that Circle ranged ability is virtually nonexistent, so don't count on any kind of gunline or even ranged support models. Circle are fast, have lots of teleport shenanigans they can do and like to rely on alpha strike to crush weak flanks and then reform and go for the throat. Their superior speed and general availability of pathfinder makes them very good at this.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 10:32:47
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fixture of Dakka
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I went for Circle and Khador for my first armies. I wanted one in each game so those are the factions I picked.
Menoth can be an interesting choice but I agree that they seem melee and magic heavy. I don't mind the melee part too much but I'm terrible at Magic. They are currently what I have. I've played with them a little before but that was during MK I. Haven't tried them in MK II.
I'd give a +1 for Khador. I also dig their 'soviet' vibe plus they can be pretty sturdy. I'd think you'd get a good mix of melee and range with them too.
I'm not sure about Ret... I haven't played them before or have read much about their units.
Circle can be fun. They don't hit as hard as the other Horde factions but they've got some neato tricks. Plus their werewolf-like beasts look awesome.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 13:10:08
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Why not just get both?
I know that learning focus/fury at the same time may confuse some people but its really isn't that bad. You could pick up Circle for Hoards and then either Khador/Retribution for WM. You could build one of the 2 initially to 35 while the other may sit around 15 or something.
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"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sence, we couldn't react to a lot of life." - Calvin and Hobbes
DukeRustfield - There's nothing wrong with beer and pretzels. I'm pretty sure they are the most important members of the food group. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 17:32:53
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Druid Warder
SLC UT
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Retribution has a very combined-arms aspect to it. You have pretty much a lot of units that specialize in their jobs and do it fairly well, with stuff like Houseguard for generic troops, Dawnguard for melee badasses or hybrids, and warjacks that do a combination of good things.
Your question on Myrmidons with some casters is to note that in this game, not everything is good with everyone. THat's not just Retribution, though. I've seen folks try to make generic lists that any caster can plug into and it's not really always doable. A caster like Rahn will always do well with arc nodes, for instance, while Garryth never needs them. Vyros wants good guns and speed, Ravyn could care less what she has. Stuff like that.
But you are right in that they are more an infantry faction that takes warjacks as support. And the "shoot and mop-up in melee" is something they can sort of do. For instance, Dawnguard Invictors are able to pretty much light-up things once or twice a game, and then they themselves are quite able to get into melee and beat the ever-living pulp out of the target with Flank. Something to consider there, I think.
Circle Orboros is very much a guerilla army, with nearly no reliable shooting, lots of magic attacks, and a bit of a bent towards warbeast heavy. Circle excels at eating mass-infantry alive, and also in movement tricks, be it stacking buffs, teleportation or repositioning enemy models. For what you stated initially you wanted to do (shoot and mop-up in melee) Circle isn't it. They have a lot to deliver troops into melee, but most reliable shooting is very short-ranged (7" javelins that happen to be on SPD 7 or 9 troops, 10" or inaccurate 12" after that), in low volume per point (about 1pt. per model shooting longer ranged guns) and fragile (not many ways to keep them noticeably alive).
Both have their bad match-ups. Retribution, being as combined-arms as they are, do kind of have isses with massive Stealth, specifically armies who are almost all Stealthed. They also son't have a means to give Pathfinder to non-Pathfinder units, which means that you have some predicatble vectors for some troops in that regard, which could be dangerous.
Circle rarely has a way to get any warbeast hitting harder than P+S 20 without specific casters (three in total out of 10 who don't deny charges doing so). Anti-magic also hurts Circle a bit, be it upkeep-hate or things immune to spells, so you gotta be aware of those as well.
In either case it's by no means a forgone conclusion against such oppositions. But it should be noted what as the game is now, I think how you do in long-term gameplay is going to be based on how much you want to get good at the game. You faction choices and playstyle will be up to you on that
And stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 18:00:57
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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This is all good stuff.
I really like Circle, I think that's pretty evident, but I'm a little hesitant because they seem so fragile. Also I don't know if I'm up to painting the warbeasts. I played SW in 40k and didn't like painting anything with fur
Which armies/lists would be filled with Stealthed troops? Also Pathfinder means the unit deals with terrain like woods a bit better, right? (my rulebook is still in the mail)
So you're saying that Retribution is kind of predictable because they're choked by terrain? Is there any WM faction that deals with terrain well?
It's also occurred to me that Warmachine isn't really a gun-line game. I think it would be more realistic to use shooting units to support the melee combatants and heavy hitters, rather than really rely on them as high damage-output units.
If I collected two factions, Circle would definitely be one. And I really think I might just make two 15pt lists and have them both on hand, plus this way I can introduce people into the game and show them each caster mechanic. Then again, I can't decide where I want to start. The factions are all so cool... I definitely didn't have this problem in 40k.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/21 18:01:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/21 19:58:59
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Druid Warder
SLC UT
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SymCL wrote:This is all good stuff.
I really like Circle, I think that's pretty evident, but I'm a little hesitant because they seem so fragile. Also I don't know if I'm up to painting the warbeasts. I played SW in 40k and didn't like painting anything with fur
Warbeasts are pretty big at least. And you don't normally have repeats of them, I find. About the only beast I think anyone needs two of is a Warpwolf Stalker and that's really a big, "Maybe" as I have never felt a need for it. Circle stuff is pretty simple though, lot of the fur is pretty well detailed and it dependss on how much you invest I guess. I like that it's just painted.
SymCL wrote:Which armies/lists would be filled with Stealthed troops? Also Pathfinder means the unit deals with terrain like woods a bit better, right? (my rulebook is still in the mail)
Circle Orboros, Legion of Everblight, and Cryx I think are the most Stealth-heavy armies. All these armies can field all-Stealth or nearly-all-Stealth armies, which can cause issues for some Retribution lists focused more on shooting or magic. It is pretty caster-dependent though and I don't think it is something that is common enough to be too worried about, myself. Just be aware that some things will be a tad harder to shoot.
Pathfinder is indeed what you think. In WM/H, models halve their movement in rough terrain (forests, shallow water, rubble, ect) and cannot normally charge accross linear obstacles and walls. Pathfinder negates these penalties, more or less.
SymCL wrote:So you're saying that Retribution is kind of predictable because they're choked by terrain? Is there any WM faction that deals with terrain well?
Not quite that, but it is something. THey do have Pathfinding units, it's just that they have no means, currently, to give it to units that don't have it already. Most WM Factions do have a means to do this, and so it is a bit of somethign Retribution lacks. This is, though, more due to the Faction being the newest and nto having as wide a range of options and it should be expected to come about soone enough. Predictability also comes from the fact that Retribution units tend to be very straight-forward and don't have manyt ricks to them besides good stats and rules. This, again, may change as the line grows though.
Most WM factions actually don't care for terrain. Cryx has a spell called Ghost Walk and a few models which can ignore it though, and Khador has a few spells like that as well. Every Faction in the game has a means to navigate terrain to some extent, but only Legion and Circle have it in the majority of their models (in Circle's case, there are litereally just over half a dozen non-sessile models that don't have it in-Faction.)
SymCL wrote:It's also occurred to me that Warmachine isn't really a gun-line game. I think it would be more realistic to use shooting units to support the melee combatants and heavy hitters, rather than really rely on them as high damage-output units.
That's how the game runs, more or less. It softens-up things for the melee troops and then tries to get opportunities from there. I think that, again, Retribution does this best between your tow current choices. Circle instead denies enemy shooting while they close, more or less.
SymCL wrote:If I collected two factions, Circle would definitely be one. And I really think I might just make two 15pt lists and have them both on hand, plus this way I can introduce people into the game and show them each caster mechanic. Then again, I can't decide where I want to start. The factions are all so cool... I definitely didn't have this problem in 40k.
Best of luck there. I personally own a Cygnar battlebox and some Mercenary stuff if I have to play WM, but I admti being pretty much a Hordes player from the get-go (I started Circle literally six months after the game came out). BUt a lot of folks do collect multiple armies and if you are not tring to be ocmpeltist wiht a Faction as I have been, you can do it pretty inexpensively I feel.
And stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 11:46:17
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Paingiver
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SymCL wrote: Magic wise, I would rather have spells to either buff my army or prevent the other warcaster from using magic effectively -- I guess you could say it would be nice to "control" as much of his turn as I can.
This line screams Protectorate, Its a pitty you eleminated them from the running since they seemed like a great fit with your intended playstyle as well. Circle has a little bit of control from the druids though.
The playstyle you seem to want, 'melee with a little ranged', can be played by just about any faction except cryx (well, cryx do have guns, just not on infantry). Khador probably fits this kind of build the best with winterguard, widowmakers, and bombards supporting the melee heavy hitters. Retribution dose very well with a combined arms army and can take almost any split of ranged and melee, ALL of their heavies have a ranged attack and two melee weapons. Circle dose most of their shooting with spells or short ranged infantry, only one warbeast has a true ranged attack -they use hit and run tactics to make this work.
Don't worry about circle being fragile too much, they are fragile but everything dies in one solid charge in this game. High armor is just there to make them need buffs for their little infantrymen to hurt your jacks or beasts, and high defense just means they will knock you down before they go for the kill. Circle uses movement and positioning to help get in the first hit and cut off counter attacks, so it doesn't matter as much if things are going well. If played well, a circle player can always come from somewhere his opponent didn't expect.
With all that said, khador always goes big and packs on so much armor it counts. It could take a few turns for even a buffed up infantry unit to chew through a khador jack. That is one thing to know about khador: they always go big. If they commit to a task they do it in a grand way; "Who cares about your bombard hitting when the blast damage can still kill guys on a miss?" "These spearmen are brutal, but I can't help but think they would be even more brutal with explosives on the end of their pikes."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 13:57:08
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Dominar
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Seems to me like you want to play Menoth. Their Vanquishers (shooting jacks) perform well at ranged, but maintain very respectable melee ability with choir and spell buffs.
Vyros tier (Ret) also works very well with your playstyle. What Vyros can do with Hydras is terrifying to lower-ARM warcasters; boosted POW 15s from 15 inches away that ignore intervening models and a lot of terrain features... blugh.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 16:37:13
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I just can't get into Menoth. Some of the models are really cool, but I just don't like their overall theme. I suppose I could write my own fluff, which I would do anyway, but at the end of the day I just don't know how I feel about massive amounts of templars/knights on my side of the table.
I also think I've eliminated Khador, I've read that while they hit heavy their weapons aren't the most accurate, and I would take increased accuracy over power.
So I think at his point it's between Circle and Scyrah. They seem kind of similar. Scyrah seems to be a bit of a "jack of all trades" while Circle seems to focus on the warbeasts with some cool units for support. I love the models for both factions, I looked at the RoS casters and really like them now. I do think Circle has the coolest "them," being woodsmen, but I like how Scyrah doesn't seem to have a massive player base. According to one thread on the PP forums, I think they're the least-played race. They also have some really cool models and both factions seem to be mobile.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 17:19:56
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Dominar
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The incredible jack support Menoth offers can result in very infantry-lite armies. You could run pKreoss or tier Harbinger or Amon and have very, very few guys in robes on the table with a ton of hulking warmachines.
Menoth is also able to get a lot of Mercenaries, and this can reduce the need for the Exemplar "knight" units. Horgenhold Forge Guard with Attendant Priest, Temple Flameguard, and Sisters are all viable infantry options.
Edit:
I neither play nor play often against Circle, but their general statlines are avoidance-oriented and extremely fragile (save for Baldur and the Construct warbeasts). In general Circle seems to play for the assassination, and fares poorly in attrition engagements. This I can speak to personally as I have literally 2 shot full health Circle warbeasts with my Titans.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/22 17:28:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 17:29:43
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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sourclams wrote:The incredible jack support Menoth offers can result in very infantry-lite armies. You could run pKreoss or tier Harbinger or Amon and have very, very few guys in robes on the table with a ton of hulking warmachines.
Menoth is also able to get a lot of Mercenaries, and this can reduce the need for the Exemplar "knight" units. Horgenhold Forge Guard with Attendant Priest, Temple Flameguard, and Sisters are all viable infantry options.
It's interesting to know, but I really just can't get behind them. If I'm going to sink money into a faction to start with, I want to be behind them 100% which is why I made this thread. I could collect Menoth down the road, but as of now... not my thing. I'm not really interested in a jack-heavy list either, I would prefer infantry supported by a small number of jacks or a couple beasts supported by some cool infantry.
And maybe Menoth fits my description best, but it's not as though my style/game-plan is something that is locked down. It seems that while each faction has their strengths and weaknesses, most can be tailored to play how you want (to some extent, anyway). So I'd rather mentally adjust to the tactics of models I really like rather than play with an army I'm not super-fond of but is tailored to my hypothetically "ideal" playstyle, which would probably change around anyway.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/22 17:32:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 18:27:18
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Battlefield Professional
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If you only like a couple of the ret casters, then i dont suggest them.
Circle and Khador are both very good.
as all factions are.
Khador is an axe to face faction to me.. They have the WGDS (Winter guard death star)
Give them Iron Flesh, then +2 def when they move = Def 19. Take the solo and they now have Tough or other benefits. I tried them and they are very fun to use.
I run 2 Jacks with my 35 pt menoth on most occasions then infantry.
Full Temple Flameguard + UA then defenders ward on them is a nice Def 15(effective 17 when charged_ armor 19 (23 on mini feat turn from UA) that causes cont. Fire...
back up by Examplar errants. then supporting solo's.
every faction does something awsome.
Pick the models you like + if you want to do focus or fury is what it really comes down to.
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-Warmahordes-
Mercenaries
Menoth |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 22:25:08
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Regular Dakkanaut
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WGI with Bob and Weave order + Iron Flesh are 17 defense, not 19. If they were 19 people would REALLY complain.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 22:51:03
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Wicked Warp Spider
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Spyder68 wrote:If you only like a couple of the ret casters, then i dont suggest them.
Thats silly...Ret only has 6 casters so if he likes 2 or 3 then hes getting the most out of the faction...
Razzle wrote:WGI with Bob and Weave order + Iron Flesh are 17 defense, not 19. If they were 19 people would REALLY complain.
Smoke clouds from Gorman and Greyilords fix that problem.
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"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sence, we couldn't react to a lot of life." - Calvin and Hobbes
DukeRustfield - There's nothing wrong with beer and pretzels. I'm pretty sure they are the most important members of the food group. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/22 23:57:13
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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I don't mean to jump on the "you should look at Menoth" wagon but there is another thing you may want to consider. In September a 2 player battle box is being released. It will have 2 25 point armies in it the first is Menoth and the other is Khador (which you said your friend is interested in). It would save both of you a large chunk of change.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 01:04:49
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Leo_the_Rat wrote:I don't mean to jump on the "you should look at Menoth" wagon but there is another thing you may want to consider. In September a 2 player battle box is being released. It will have 2 25 point armies in it the first is Menoth and the other is Khador (which you said your friend is interested in). It would save both of you a large chunk of change. 20 and 21, not 25 Khador: Sorcha -5 Juggernaught 7 Destroyer 9 Full MoW Shocktroopers 9 Total - 20 Menoth: Kreoss -5 Crusader 6 Vanquisher 8 Repenter 4 Cinerators 8 Total - 21 Couple of solos/units from being 25, which matters, especially if going to an event with the "Can't be more than 2 under" rule.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/23 01:08:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 01:18:02
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Paingiver
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It seems to me circle is the way for you to go. Aside from painting fur and short distance ranged attacks, they appear to really appeal to you. You can get a great deal of control from just the druids of oroboros unit and their officer and tricky ranged attacks from the pureblood warpwolf and tharn bloodtrackers.
Menoth has many of the elements you want to play, but how can anyone get passionate about playing models they don't especially like? Most of our time spent with this hobby is spent not playing, but painting models and discussing the game. Protectorate just doesn't seem very rewarding to you in those aspects.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/08/23 01:20:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 01:39:08
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Painting Within the Lines
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The problem with circle is it simply is not what you described when you said what you want in an army. Those qualities are most typified by Protectorate. Also, there are plenty of non-exemplar options with the faction.
And yes, I am driving the Menite Band wagon. It is called the Vessel of Judgement. Look it up. Seriously, that model alone justifies choosing PoM.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 02:13:21
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I'm just not feeling Menoth. I really think it's between Circle and Scyrah. No other models are really calling to me like those factions' are.
I originally didn't care for most of the Scyrah warcasters, but they're really growing on me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 03:09:52
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Veteran ORC
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Personally, I could possibly drop Khador and go Menoth if they were to go more "Holy Evil", like the Reclaimer and the Wracks/Vassals. Still need some Jacks that follow that theme, though :/
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I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 07:20:21
Subject: Re:Cannot choose a Faction...
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Paingiver
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Slarg232 wrote:Personally, I could possibly drop Khador and go Menoth if they were to go more "Holy Evil", like the Reclaimer and the Wracks/Vassals. Still need some Jacks that follow that theme, though :/
You might have a misconception about the bulk of the protectorate of menoth. Most of them are evil, or neutral at best. Exemplars are knights fighting under the very evil scrutators, zealots are angry mobs turned to violence by rabble rousers, and the flameguard, while not especially evil, are led by the devious and power-hungry Feora. The only truly good elements are the paladins of the wall, Kreoss, and the harbinger.
While I'm on the subject of faction background I should probably contribute to the topic.
Circle tend to be be pretty neutral. They have a goal of maintaining balance between civilization and nature. They draw power from the very god who's return they wish to prevent, for they know if he was to ever return it would cause the end of the world. The circle are responsible for several atrocities caused by their more heartless members though; plagues, human sacrifice, poisoned wells, creating mutated werewolf people, and allowing the cannibal tharn tribe into their ranks (okay technically tharn are not druids, but there is a strong alliance).
The retribution come from a nation based on a policy of millennia old isolationism and are generally good except for that whole desperate religious zeal to murder human mages. It is actually that desperation and zeal that caused them to begin attacking human nations openly, their gods took physical for several thousand years ago to lead their race to greatness, but the process of crossing over to this world blew a hole in the continent and the new gods-in-the-flesh slowly weakened and vanished except the last two ailing and comatose gods. The elves believe that human magic is responsible for their deitys' misfortunes so the obvious response to that is kill all human wizards and anything else in the way.
EDIT: Also, if you have any aversion to the letter Y, do NOT play retribution. Every elf name has at least one Y.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/23 07:24:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 07:31:05
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Master Tormentor
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You might have a misconception about the bulk of the protectorate of menoth. Most of them are evil, or neutral at best. Exemplars are knights fighting under the very evil scrutators, zealots are angry mobs turned to violence by rabble rousers, and the flameguard, while not especially evil, are led by the devious and power-hungry Feora. The only truly good elements are the paladins of the wall, Kreoss, and the harbinger.
I'm not entirely sure where people get the whole "Harbinger is good" thing from. While she certainly isn't evil, she's perfectly happy to let insincere converts get devoured by Cryxians, and Kreoss honestly isn't much better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 13:08:00
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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The "holy evil" idea is actually kind of cool. After reading this thread, I've kind of been peer-pressured into Menoth.
I think that Circle calls me those most model-wise, so I really just might pick up a caster or two just for the way they look. I will definitely be collecting Circle at some point anyway.
Either way, now I'm looking into Scyrah and Menoth. Everyone seems to be telling me Menoth is what I want and I admit, some of the models are quite cool. Scyrah gives me a Protoss vibe though and I love that.
I know Warmachine/Hordes has a lot of tournaments, and I see "Khador placed first at tourney X" or "Scyrah won tournament Y." What tournaments are these and is there anything I can look up online?
Also, how does Menoth deal with difficult terrain?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 14:20:05
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Dominar
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SymCL wrote:I know Warmachine/Hordes has a lot of tournaments, and I see "Khador placed first at tourney X" or "Scyrah won tournament Y." What tournaments are these and is there anything I can look up online?
The Privateer Press forums generally have a thread or two dissecting any of the big tournaments.
Also, how does Menoth deal with difficult terrain?
Rhupert Carvolo the mercenary is how your infantry gets around terrain, mostly. Warjacks-wise, there's not much other than a few warcasters with Mobility. Menoth is mostly about denial and horrible, grinding combat, not so much blitzkrieg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/23 14:47:33
Subject: Cannot choose a Faction...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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So couldn't a RoS army take Rhupert as well and deal with difficult terrain that way?
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