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So I'm making an Imperial Guard army. It's going to be mostly infantry with 2 Leman Russes. I was thinking of going with the standard battle tanks since they seem to be a pretty good all around choice. If not standard, then what would be a good choice for them?

Given the choices in the box, and not having a clue what else you're running, i say the basic LRBT is a solid choice.
I usually run sponsons, but have been getting away from that unless it's a Demolisher or Exterminator. you can
always magnetize them to add and remove. and keep the weapons magnetized or at least unglued, so you can always change your mind.

My buddy plays guard and magnetized all of his Russ tanks just for incase he knows ahead of time what he's playing against. It's a great idea and it might cost you a little extra for the magnets and take you a lil extra time in the building but its well worth the effort.

Shuck wrote:So I'm making an Imperial Guard army. It's going to be mostly infantry with 2 Leman Russes. I was thinking of going with the standard battle tanks since they seem to be a pretty good all around choice. If not standard, then what would be a good choice for them?

I would recommend against the LRBT.

When I was building my IG, my first tanks was an LRBT with LC and HB sponsons. It seemed like a good versatile build. But, the reality is that as you get more experience with your army, you will want more specialized and efficient builds. I have not used the LRBT for a long, long time. So, if money is not a problem, you can have many different variants and LRBT is reasonable. But, if you do not have that much, my recommendation would be at least one executioner with plasma sponsons - it is by far the killiest tank in the parking lot and not that expensive for what it does. The other one should probably be a demolisher with HF and/or MM.

Of course, you can also magnetize sponsons and weapons if you are ok at modeling.

Also, you should skim through the newest 5-10 pages of threads. There are several ones on different LR variants.

Agreed on Magnetizing.

I personally use a squadron of 2 LRBT HB hull, HB sponsons

With all the melta/plasma guard can bring fairly easily I felt I needed more AP 3ish

From what I ahve played, I would advise for neither for or against the LRBT. Instead, go with magnetizing. My only sugestion is that If you want flexibility, use a vanquisher and a punisher.

The vanquisher is incredibly handy, as the 72in, S10 AP1 shot will eat through tanks, MCs, and Terminators with ease.

Then, the Punisher gattling cannon, Heavy 20, S5 AP5 shots will eat through horde armies, like Nids and other guard armies, with ease.

The vanquisher does not have str 10 or ap 1. It is Str 8 ap 2 with 2d6 to the armor pen roll.

The punisher also does not have ap 5, it has ap -.

Do you have the Guard codex?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On topic, I feel that the LRBT is not a must take, but if you do take it, it can definitely be worth it. First of all, make it cheap. Hull HB, no sponsons. Yeah, a kitted out Executioner might kill more, but it costs so much more as well. Another thing the LRBT has over the Executioner is range. 72 inches is huge. In spearhead, place it back in your corner and it will barely get touched by the enemy, while hammering away at them. In pitched deployment, put it in the far corner away from anything that can hurt it in the opposing army.

I always take two of these, and for the points they do not dissapoint. The battle cannon is a very versatile weapon. Obviously it is most potent against MEQ in the open, but of course that is rare nowadays. However, it is just as killy against any horde infantry, mauling orks and ig blobs. Speaking of orks, you will often see them in the open but with a 5++ from the KFF. Well, if you hit 9 orks with a good shot, 6 will die. That doesnt sound like much, but the punisher cannon will kill the same amount (20 shots, 10 hits, 6.3 wounds, 1.05 saves).

The BC is also useful against certain vehicles. In particular, it is very hard to miss even with scatter when firing on a vendetta or stormraven. These huge AV12 beasts are usually a big threat, and with str 8 and picking the highest of 2d6 for armor pen, you are pretty likely to cause some damage.

Point is, specialization can be nice, but for the cheap cost, a LRBT gets you a long range gun on a hardy platform that can be used against any foe to good effect.

The Battle Tank is second only to the Demolisher. Like others have said, magnetizing the Russes is a great way to save money and it's also really nice to show weapon destroyed results when you simply remove the weapon. The great thing about the new kits is that you don't need to glue or magnetize the hull or sponson weapons, everything is push-fit which makes it really easy to swap these.

The Punisher is actually particularly good against things like transports, heavy infantry, and even heavy tanks side armor. Although against the latter you'll probably just shear all of the weapons off.

There is no "best" choice, it all depends on your list. That said, I have a soft spot for a couple. Here are my 2 cents on em':

LRBT: Never used it, but if I take something as chansey as a large blast, I want it to be able to damage anything it lands on. Bleh.

Demolisher: I actually like this one; if you can wrap it well, it's very difficult to kill, and can really lay the smack down. I don't use it very much however, as it' a little too luck-based for me.

Exterminator: Love it. Wrap this ole boy up, and you have a Hydra with none of the wimpiness of 12/10/10. Cheap too. Not for all lists, though.

Executioner: Great the first time you use it. Afterwards, your opponent will not let it live long. The 3 blasts somewhat compensate for the iffy accuracy. Not one of my favorites.

Eradicator: I want to like this, as it seems quite useful against non-Marine armies; unfortunately, all I fight are Marines. Not enough experience with it, but I'd lean towards "bad".

Punisher: I love these, mostly because I dislike blasts in general. Not exactly a killing machine, but good at forcing saves and whittling away MCs. Pask turns it up to 11, but it becomes very pricey.

Vanquisher: Bad. If you want to kill tanks, we have many other, better options.

odorofdeath beat me to the rundown, but I'll add more to what he already said:

LRBT is your default choice if you're not sure or haven't used the tanks much. It is among the cheapest and the gun can kill anything that isn't AV14. There are a lot of ways to go with it, but just keeping it cheap as others have said is the best default option. If you are running multiple tanks, the cheaper the better, particularly if you decide to squadron them. Something nobody's mentioned about the Russes yet is that it isn't so much how effective they are, but how effective they are for the points. You want to have points not just for the shiny tank, but to have other units help protect the shiny tank from getting dented. The cheap, 150 pt variants are good for this reason.

Exterminator is an excellent transport popper, costs the same as a LRBT so in the same vein you can keep them cheap, and is twin-linked which helps compensate for the lackluster BS3 guard suffer from. Autocannons are extremely versatile and 4 rerollable shots is great for popping transports or killing monstrous creatures. However, you'll want to maximize the strengths here- while hydras are cheap enough to lose 1 or 2 in a game, you'll want to really keep the Exterminator at range and put the opponent in a situation where he'll have to shoot it from far away vs assaulting/melta-ing it- in a long-range shooting war AV14 is excellent, the shine starts to dull when its paired with AV10 rear armor and the multitude of assaulty armies. So keep it protected, hang back and perforate transports/big monsters.

Demolisher is the big daddy, lobbing out a scary str10 ap2 shot. The Demolisher is a bigger, badder version of a Vindicator in my opinion. It will scare novice/casual players and against them will command a 24" radius of 'dont eff with me'. But aggressive, experienced opponents will exploit its short range and high cost. You do get AV11 in the rear armor, which helps a bit, and if you decide to go all-out and give it multimelta sponsons you create a platform the opponent is forced to deal with at 24" away. Not saying its super effective, but that the opponent cant ignore it. This version is fun to use with Creed and have it outflank near a bunched up cluster of models. However, as nice as str 10 is, honestly its not any more effective vs most infantry targets (ie overkill) and only wins out vs TEQs compared to the standard Battlecannon. Its probably your best best vs other tough, short-ranged opponents.

Eradicator is one I strongly disagree with odorofdeath. Against non-MEQs, I think its an excellent tank (though honestly it should be 150 or 155 points). Non MEQ armies need to take advantage of coversaves; which incidentally make fancy AP2 value pointless. A gun that ignores coversaves outright is very powerful in this situation. Best example here is a mob of orks protected by a Kustom Force Field; a battlecannon wouldn't wound any easier than a Nova cannon, but the KFF saves mean the nova cannon would potentially cause 33% more casualties. When dealing with hordes or abilities that grant coversaves all the damn time, this gun is good. Its situational, sure.

Vanquisher is another really specialized tank, but fortunately its not that much more expensive. I probably wouldn't take more than one, though. Vanquisher really shines vs AV14 vehicles, such as a Land Raider. If you can destroy it early in the game, the Vanq definitely was a good point tradeoff (155 points to kill a 255 point vehicle). You can combine them with Melta vets to maximize your 2D6 armor pen weapons. However, in absence of vehicles/after they're all dead, this one is a poor platform. More often than not the LRBT will be better in more situations and more consistently reliable, but for an expensive, high-value armored target killer, its pretty good.

Executioner is probably the most popular 'special' variant because 3 plasma cannon shots is pretty good in a lot of situations and with sponsons you can make it 5(!) TEQ-killing blasts. It'll hurt a lot of targets to be sure, but as others have said its going to be a really big target and killed ASAP. The other problem is its your most expensive variant, so you end up investing a lot of points in something that could potentially die in turn 1. In a bigger game, I can see it finding a use since you'll have more things to help support it.

Punisher is the worst of the lot, sadly. It seemed so cool on paper, but the mathammer doesn't pay out. For the amount of shots that will hit, wound, and the opponent's failed armor saves, you're better off using the plane ole battlecannon/demolisher. The worst part about this variant is that its the second most expensive; I mean really for its range you're better off with the demolisher which is Ordinance and can smash tanks and TEQs

As for the Hull and sponson weapons:

Hull Heavy Bolter is the Default config, and a decent all-around choice. Keep it on if you want to keep your tank cheap.

Hull Lascannon is good too, in my opinion, for the longer-ranged variants. Plenty of things are resiliant against heavy bolter fire, but everything can be potentially killed by a lascannon shot.

Hull Heavy Flamer is impractical on a Leman Russ due to their slow speed and vulnerability to assaults. Keep these on your chimeras, which are a fraction of the price and not the end of the world if one blows up after trying to torch an assaulty squad.

Heavy Bolter sponsons are the cheapest sponsons, and combined with hull heavy bolter spit out a lot of dakka. They're good on Exterminator and Eradicator since you're going to be trying to wound hordes. The Punisher's range is too short to really do much with sitting still and alpha striking.

Heavy flamer sponsons are worthless because you're never gonna be in a position to flamer one target with both sponsons, too short ranged; remember the biggest vulnerability of a Leman Russ is getting assaulted and you dont want a weapon that puts you that close.

Multi-Melta sponsons are something I've never tried but curious. They're pricey for being short-ranged; you're probably going to have to move to get them in range which means you'll only be able to shoot one of them. However, they share the range of the Demolisher's gun so it might be worth a shot to combine them.

Plasma cannon sponsons are the best sponsons in my opinion because they synergise with so many variants; on the Exterminator they provide additional str 7 hits, on the Executioner they provide additional plama blasts. They're the most expensive, but unlike a lot of options, I think the cost is somewhat justified.

I've been playing guard for about 6 or so years, and i've found that the age old theory of 'tanks kill troops, troops kill tanks' actually almost works here.

I used the 'standard' config that 'noobs' almost always do - LRBT with hull heavy bolter, and heavy bolter sponsons. I want to put the hurt on marines and hordes, and a large blast battle cannon, followed closely by 9 heavy bolter shots totally SLAUGHTERS anything it fires at. Sure, there are some times when it might scatter too far, but for the most part they kick ass. And for reasonably cheap. Another thing I hate the most is when the battlecannon gets destroyed.

If you have no decent hull weapon or sponsons, you are screwed. Your 150 pt tank is now useless. I often also use a lascannon in the hull, because this allows me to retain the ability to pot-shot terminators, and keep some form of AT if my battlecannon is destroyed.

Jerjare, thanks for fleshing out the thread with sponsons; truthfully, I never run them so sometimes I forget they exist. I do respectfully disagree on some points though.

Against non-MEQs, I think its an excellent tank (though honestly it should be 150 or 155 points)

Its situational, sure.

I agree, and I think it boils down to what you face regularly. I fight GKs mostly, with Dark Eldar in close second. And the Eradicator isn't particularly good against either of those armies.

Basically, the Eradicator is bad versus MEQ, but I would wager that most people's opponents play MEQ armies the majority of the time.

Personally, if it's not going to be effective against marines, I don't bother.

but for an expensive, high-value armored target killer, its pretty good.

I suppose there is something to be said for it's high armor, but that's pretty much the only thing it has going for it over Manticores and Medusae.

Punisher is the worst of the lot, sadly. It seemed so cool on paper, but the mathammer doesn't pay out. For the amount of shots that will hit, wound, and the opponent's failed armor saves, you're better off using the plane ole battlecannon/demolisher. The worst part about this variant is that its the second most expensive; I mean really for its range you're better off with the demolisher which is Ordinance and can smash tanks and TEQs

I fear this is where we're going to have to "agree to disagree". I'm sure you're aware of the size of the "large" blast template, and I'm sure you're aware of how easy it is to space out your models to 2". After a few games against me, my opponents quickly learned to spread out, and coupled with BS 3, blasts are simply too avoidable for me to justify using in most situations.

That's why I love the Punisher. No, it doesn't have good AP, or accuracy, or significant Strength. But those 20 shots cannot be avoided: no matter how crafty my opponent is, he will always be eating those bullets. Yes, it is overcosted, but I'm willing to pay a bit of premium for the benefit of not having to base my vehicles' effectiveness on my opponent's skill.

Just my opinions again. I look forward to continuing the discussion!

I find the exterminator with the TL autocannons is fairly useless except for vehicle/dreadnought hunting. I've used them against GK, and they are useless against power armour units. Be lucky to get 1 kill, if that, per round. That is definitely not worth it for a 150+pt tank performance. I'd rather have 3 chimeras, for a ridiculous total of 9 hvy bolter shots and 9 multilaser shots, killing a reasonable 2-3 marines per round, while having larger saturation of targets and can keep troops safe inside from massed stormbolter fire.

edit:
I would really like to try out a punisher with pask against a dreadknight, would be interesting, due to the re-roll against MCs

odorofdeath wrote:

Punisher is the worst of the lot, sadly. It seemed so cool on paper, but the mathammer doesn't pay out. For the amount of shots that will hit, wound, and the opponent's failed armor saves, you're better off using the plane ole battlecannon/demolisher. The worst part about this variant is that its the second most expensive; I mean really for its range you're better off with the demolisher which is Ordinance and can smash tanks and TEQs

I fear this is where we're going to have to "agree to disagree". I'm sure you're aware of the size of the "large" blast template, and I'm sure you're aware of how easy it is to space out your models to 2". After a few games against me, my opponents quickly learned to spread out, and coupled with BS 3, blasts are simply too avoidable for me to justify using in most situations.

That's why I love the Punisher. No, it doesn't have good AP, or accuracy, or significant Strength. But those 20 shots cannot be avoided: no matter how crafty my opponent is, he will always be eating those bullets. Yes, it is overcosted, but I'm willing to pay a bit of premium for the benefit of not having to base my vehicles' effectiveness on my opponent's skill.

Just my opinions again. I look forward to continuing the discussion!

The punisher is terrible, Shots don't have to be avoided as Over half of them will miss. Than out of the 7-8 that do hit only 5-6 will wound, which might drop 2 SM. Just give me that AP3 Battlecannon goodness with my 9 HB shots, If it hits It will kill more, if it misses you should still drop 1 due to the HB and hey that's half as much as the other ... Not to mention the extra range you get.

I never said the Punisher was a killing machine. I just stated that I preferred it over other variants due to blast weapons' unreliability. But yeah, it doesn't look great in 1 turn, but like all LRs it's a tough nut too crack at range, and it's effectiveness doesn't drop any if the Marines are in cover.

I think Punishers work best with Pask, Hull HB and HB sponsons. And only then, when they're targeting MC or solo characters like Mephiston/Crowe. Doesn't Pask have that nifty ability to re-roll wounds against toughness 5 or above targets? If so, then you can kiss your monstrous creatures goodbye the moment the Punisher turns its turret to face you.

That being said, such a kit will bump the cost of the Punisher to Land Raider equivalent, but if you don't mind paying the price, then I think it could be pretty devastating.

I prefer the Demolisher, hlc and MM sponsons. high st all round, and it's effective against pretty much whatever you want to shoot at. hordes? no worries. MEQ's? no worries. Monolith? might take a bit longer, but it'll still die.

I see your unit of t5 3 wound whatevers, and I raise you a s10 pie plate!

Dimmy: I've heard talk of the Paskisher being a pretty effective MC hunter. Very pricey, but Pask would help the tank against all targets with his improved BS.

My Executioner has never let me down, its the most expensive, but whatever it targets will die. I run mine with a hull HB and no sponsons. The main gun is perfect for taking down swarms and heavy infinity alike, and the HB complements this. The one downside is the lower range on main gun means you will be on the move, making sponsons useless.

The LRMBT is also a good choice. The long range means few things are out of range and is good for area denial.

+1 for the executioner. Nothing makes me a happier panda than giving 20 AP2 wounds to a TH/SS termie squad.

The problem with putting Pask in a Punisher is that to get the Crack Shot benefit, he can't move. Since it only has a 24" range, that diminishes the effectiveness. And standing still when the opponent is 24" away is risky, since there are many swift units that can dart into assault from fairly far away and if they do get to you, will be auto-hitting you in assault.

Pask is better in a Vanquisher "Pasquisher" (love the word!) with a hull lascannon for ultimate tank-killing goodness- a Str 9 shot with 2D6 armor pen and a str 10 shot. Or in an Exterminator for 4 str 8 shots for MC killing goodness. Moving the tank around means you're paying 50 points for BS4, not a good deal in my opinion.

The punisher is a neat idea but lacking because its AP- and range 24".

Sure the enemy infantry can space out to mitigate blasts, but if they deep strike or get forced out of a popped transport they're going to be bunched up. The Demolisher is Ordinance, so it can pin infantry and kill tanks better.

Deepstrikers can run, and the only way to not space out after your transport is popped is if it explodes. Otherwise, you pop down the guys 2" anywhere from the vehicle's borders.

If the Vanquisher was twin-linked, or even just small blast, I might take it. As is, there's just too much riding on that 1 die roll for my comfort.

ok the trade off here seems to be potentialy unreliable scatter or definitely rubish stats. yes blast weapons have the potential to do nothing, punisher will (almost) always do a little but will never be brilliant. honestly the battle cannon can whipe a 10 man tactical squad off the board in a turn if done properly. now i hear people say "oooh phyrus, what if there being deliberately anoying and spacing out their models exactly 2 inches". well aside from being anoying, they are actualy increasing their chances of taking some casualties as even if the blast scatters it will still probably hit them. as for the others, apart from the demolisher all of the others are pretty situational: exterminator is good vs hoards (give it hvy bolter sponsoons) and MCs and armies like Tau and Eldar but its rubish vs MEQs, TEQ's and AV13-14.

eradicator, great vs armies like tau, eldar and orks who have low saves and like coversaves but again rubish vs MEQs etc...

executioner, kills everything up to teq's but can't touch AV14 and becomes a magnet for anything even slightly anti-tank.... and a few things that technicaly arent.

Vanquisher, built to take out landraiders, battlewagons, etc in first two turns, pretty rubish vs anything else except perhapse the odd MC due to paucity of shots and lack of blast (that said the old apocalypse version cost 175 points but you could switch between AT shot or battle cannon blast, vanquisher comes into its own in apocalypse as you can equip it with a coaxial hvy stubber to make its gun more acurate and hardened crew aswell)... (yes I'm a fan of this tank, what of it?).

oh yeah, and the punnisher..... looks cool, talks the talk but cant walk the walk..... generaly a fire magnet too. sorry to any of you guys who love this tank, i think the idea is realy cool, but it needs eith S6 or Ap4/rending.

I like Jerjare's explaination, solid and good advice. I have nothing to say except, even with regular Leman Russes your are going to make an impact on the table!

lledwey wrote:The vanquisher does not have str 10 or ap 1. It is Str 8 ap 2 with 2d6 to the armor pen roll.

The punisher also does not have ap 5, it has ap -.

Do you have the Guard codex?

Unfortunately, my guard dex had disapeared rather recently, so I was going off of what I could remember.

Jerjare wrote:Punisher is the worst of the lot, sadly. It seemed so cool on paper, but the mathammer doesn't pay out. For the amount of shots that will hit, wound, and the opponent's failed armor saves, you're better off using the plane ole battlecannon/demolisher. The worst part about this variant is that its the second most expensive; I mean really for its range you're better off with the demolisher which is Ordinance and can smash tanks and TEQs

I see your point, however, when I let my brother play my nids, the Punisher was rather eficient. so It is truly a nice anti-infantry vehicle. yes, there are more efficient LRs, but when you hear and see someone roll 20 dice, it's a little demoralizing. ESPECIALLY when your armor save sucks.

I really have nothing in the way of numbers or evidence to counter the naysayers with, but hopefully I can get a couple games in Friday and I'll see report how my Punishers do.

Sponsons are a waste of points. Your Vets need another 2 meltaguns, and the useless spam slung to the side of your LRMBT is preventing that. Also, the upgrade to a lascannon that will rarely, if ever, hit is a total waste. If your tanks are losing weapons, then you're not putting enough pressure on your opponent with other units [Mechanized Vets with 3 MG, anyone??] to begin with, which means you're doing it wrong.

I'll agree that tanks need to kill infantry and infantry need to kill tanks. This 'I love/I hate the Punisher' is quickly becoming the IG version of Kroot. Yeah, it has lot's of shots. Yes, all those shots are rather puny. Put your points where you want.

For me it has always been the Executioner. 3 Templates gives me a much better chance to kill some MEQ which, let's face it, the flavor of the year right now; and until a super scary Eldar or Tau codex comes out, don't expect that to change anytime soon.

After that, it's the LRMBT, naked. Those points for all the cool upgrades are better spent somewhere else. It is also a much better choice than the Exec. against Eldar, Tau, Nids, or some Orks.

An IG tank will RARELY buy it's points back. The idea behind bringing them is table control. It will intimidate your opponent knowing that he's facing either a pie plate of doom, or 3 blasts of plasma fondue. That being said, they are mobile killers: the hammer to the anvil your infantry should form. Pick a flank, put all of your tanks on it, and roll up one side, and across the back. That's the standard "hammer and anvil." OBVIOUSLY that will not always be appropriate, but you can still execute much more table control than with say...a Demolisher.

The Demolisher and its cousins are much too short ranged to be effective. At 24", you will be in assault range of fleet models, who will just love your rear AV of 11 for their TH, MB, etc. Choose how you want it to die. They are also way overpriced to boot.

The only truly viable upgrade worth the points on IG HS is camo-netting. 3+ Cover save? Thank you sir, may I have another.

odorofdeath wrote:I really have nothing in the way of numbers or evidence to counter the naysayers with, but hopefully I can get a couple games in Friday and I'll see report how my Punishers do.

There's nothing specifically bad about the Punisher, it's really just that it's about 30 points more expensive than it should be. The combination of short range, low BS, and the fact that S5 shooting is so easy to find elsewhere in the codex are really the nail(s) in its coffin. Its only selling point is the novelty of being able to roll 20 dice at a time. In almost every situation the basic Russ and Demolisher are just as effective against infantry, while being scarier to both tanks and MEQ, all at a lower price.

Leman Russ Battle Tanks, Demolishers, and Executioners are always great choices because they give you things you can't easily find elsewhere in Guard, and are appropriately costed to their effectiveness. Exterminators and Eradicators are solid but are often eclipsed in their role by other units (namely the Hydra and Hellhound, respectively). Punishers and Vanquishers are just far too niche for their cost and are hampered severely by BS3.

I have a personal note on the Exterminator, though - people generally compare it unfavorably to the Hydra because the Hydra has the same shooting package for half the points, and gains the useful Auto Tracking System. On the other hand, the Exterminator is far more resilient to shooting and can fire on the move. I would say the rule there is this: if you have a Chimera wall to hide behind (i.e. a gunline of Chimeras that don't plan to move), then take the Hydra, as it can rely on Cover saves to keep it resilient to shooting. If you are bringing foot troops or plan on advancing your Chimeras (i.e. a typical Veterans/Chimera army), then the Exterminator is a better choice, as it doesn't need Cover to survive. Also consider that the Exterminator can field Plasma Sponsons for a reasonable cost while the Hydra is limited to AP4 shooting.

I field 3xExterminators with Plasma Sponsons (keeping the Hull Heavy Bolter) with my 2k Steel Legion and they have survived virtually every game unscathed, as most of my opponents simply can't muster the long-range shooting to kill them, let alone get any Meltaguns past the wall of Chimeras barreling toward them. Meanwhile the barrage of Autocannons and Plasma Templates puts holes in transports and makes squads on foot very unhappy. I'd highly recommend the tank.

honestly, I would agree with Kestrel except for one thing, thats the restriction to Ap4 shooting. if i field an exterminator i would upgrade it so all of its weapons are similar (probably all HB's), same with the demolisher, all high strength or short range such as lascannon and multimeltas or triple flamers. Its weapon synergy, which is a different school of thought to some as it basicaly means that you specialise the tank as far as possible. the big illustration of this is the vannila russ, the old kit used to be lascannon and heavy bolters. it was a mis-match of weapons, not necisarily bad but depending on what you were shooting at you were wasting points (thus why i run my Russ' without sponsons 90% of the time). so if i field an executioner i want it shooting at light vehicles or light-medium infantry, not MEQ's, TEQ's or heavy armour. but, thats just my opinion, the 'versitile' aproach has merit too, its just not what works for me.