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Okay I was playing my friends necron when we came to an argument. Please tell me what you think about this.


He has one Monolith
Necron Lord with Resurection orb
two 30 Warrior units
and a tomb spider.

Here what happened I shot one of his warrior unit to death killed all those that were still standng.
So since he has a spider and a resurection orb within range he can WBB instant kills.

So at his turn he WBB his necrons, but since the unit has been wipped the warrior that come back return to play in coherency with the other unit of Warrior.
Till then its simple.. but then he want to use the Monolith to phase out its Remaining warrior so that they can try their WBB roll and reemerge from the Monolith.

Thats when I said no way.


IMO he cant because that unit cant be phased out, it doesn't exist anymore, the warrior that succeded their WBB have been put in another unit, they are now part of that unit.
He could phase out this unit and re-emerge but that would not bring the fallen unit.

Or am I completely wrong and he can really phase out 15 dead Necron and bring them back as a unit ?

What do you think?

I'm pretty sure WBB happens at the begining of the turn before movement. That means you have to resolve all WBB rolls before you choose to put things in a monolith or not.

Phase out is the right terminology as you are using it, but it's going to confuse a lot of people who think that the only reference to the words "Phase out" is where necrons auto-lose when they are down to 25% or less of the "necron" type units. If I were you, I would stick to calling it "teleport".

This is probably one of the reasons WBB in name will be removed from the codex update - it was written horribly then and it's horrible now. In the case of your opponent: Downed models in wiped out squads do not officially become part of a nearby squad until they pass a WBB roll. So, they couldn't teleport with the squad because they never get to become part of the squad.

IIRC He may choose to redo all of his wbb's by using the portal. Mind you that would include the ones currently in another unit

Page 13, Necron Codex, under "We'll Be Back," paragraphs 3-4.

"Additionallky, the self-repair ability only works if the wounded Necron is within 6" of another model of the same type... The repaired Necron will immediately be placed in coherency with the closed unit of the same type."

-- This establishes that the order of operations is that they join the unit after they reapair - or in other words, make their WBB.

P21, Monolith Special Rules, Power Matrix rule 2a:
"...a Necron unit... is at least partially within 18" of the Monolith - even if they are in close combat - they may phase out and re-emerge from the portal. Any models in the unit that, although eligible to self-repair, failed their We'll Be Back roll at the start o the turn and were removed, may re-roll once as they emerge from the portal."

-- This establishes that after WBB has been rolled, a unit is teleported, and any models in that unit that failed WBB get to re-roll.

Since the warriors never technically joined the surviving unit, they don't get the re-roll with the rest of the unit.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:IIRC He may choose to redo all of his wbb's by using the portal. Mind you that would include the ones currently in another unit

No he would not actually because you can only do this with one squad per turn instead of using the "main gun" of the monolith .. the particle whip I think its called.

So he must choose which with unit he wants to do it one one can phase out and re-emerge from the portal on the monolith.
So since theres a dead unit and one living unit IMO he cant do it with a dead squad ..

@diesel Exactly my point you cant elect a squad that is made oly of dead models to do something... IMO that squad has been eradicated the moment the last necron failled or succeded its WBB roll since those who miss die and those who succeded are now part of another unit.

Well actually he was in range of a Resurection orb so he could do WBB roll even if its squad was wiped out. Or was it because he was within 12" of the tomb spider... I cant remember... but he was allowed WBB roll but IMO he wasn't allowed to resurect a fallen squad using that trick.

IMO WBB is already quite powerfull so allowing that kind of trick would have made it cheezy lol

based on rules quoted they'd be allowed to re-emerge.

this part

"Any models in the unit that, although eligible to self-repair, failed their We'll Be Back roll at the start o the turn and were removed, may re-roll once as they emerge from the portal."

Right Lazypete. A common confusion is that people think of the downed models as "half alive" infantry. All they are, are tokens to represent where they died. For all intents and purposes (other than measuring to the Rez Orb, other units or the tomb spyder), the models don't exist, as written in the first rule of the WBB section, and clarified in the Necron FAQ.

jdjamesdean, You're taking what I quoted out of the context I put it in (EDIT: Actually, I can see where that would be confusing). "Any models in the unit..." was referring to the unit you are teleporting. Downed models are ignored as I referred before., and since there are no more models in the unit that are not ignored, they can't be teleported. And since every model who would make WBB would be instantly sent to the nearest unit within 6", every sucsessive rez would place every repaired model with the new unit. It's functionally impossible to restore that squad.

Lazypete wrote:Okay I was playing my friends necron when we came to an argument. Please tell me what you think about this.


He has one Monolith
Necron Lord with Resurection orb
two 30 Warrior units
and a tomb spider.

First off, he can't start off with two thirty warrior units. A unit can have at most twenty models initially, other models can be added during play via WBB, however.

So at his turn he WBB his necrons, but since the unit has been wipped the warrior that come back return to play in coherency with the other unit of Warrior.
Till then its simple.. but then he want to use the Monolith to phase out its Remaining warrior so that they can try their WBB roll and reemerge from the Monolith.

WBB works like this: At the beginning of the Necron player's turn, the player rolls for each downed model. Those models making the WBB roll are placed with the nearest unit (not necessarily the unit it was with). Downed models not making WBB rolls are removed unless the player will use a Monolith to teleport (not phase out, that's a completely different topic!!) a unit. If a unit is teleported through a Monolith, the unit, including any downed models associated with the unit, are moved to in front of the Monolith. The downed models get another chance as WBB. If successful, are deployed with the rest of the unit. Those that fail are removed from the game.

There is no such thing as an entire unit of downed models. There is no standing model tie the downed models to the unit. Therefor, the downed models cannot be teleported through the Monolith since the unit no longer exists.

Also, as an FYI, no more than twenty models on the 28mm bases can fit within in range of the Monolith's opening when teleporting. Anymore are lost.

Again, keep in mind that chronologically speaking from the codex's step-by-step WBB rules, a downed model wouldn't join a new unit until it makes it's WBB - so a unit with damaged necrons would teleport and re-roll their WBB, but would not "drag" models from the other downed squad with it.

@theGreatAvatar

Actually they use the term "phase out and re-emerge" in the rule of the monolith.

Anyway you haven't read the whole thing... thats he point... he cant because the unit does not exist... all living model were already bringed back with WBB and so they have joined another unit. Then he wanted to take the models that failed their WBB and teleport (if you perfer) them to the monolith.. thats where I said well you cant because there are no living model in that unit.. that unit does not exist anymore... all the model that succeded their WBB roll were joined in another unit since there were no active model in that unit at the start of the turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and about the 30 models... well my bad maybe they were only 20.. I dont remember

As has been pointed out already, you can't teleport the warriors through the monolith if the entire squad has been shot down. At least 1 model in that unit must be alive in order to teleport.

He should make his WBB rolls, all successful wbb warriors will then join the other squad. The ones that didn't get up are gone.

So, yes, I agree with you, he can't teleport an entire unit of downed models.

It has been a while since I've read the exact verbiage of the rules. The Necrons have a rule called "Phase Out" thus it was a little confusing as first. No harm.

TheGreatAvatar wrote:

There is no such thing as an entire unit of downed models. There is no standing model tie the downed models to the unit. Therefor, the downed models cannot be teleported through the Monolith since the unit no longer exists.

omerakk wrote:As has been pointed out already, you can't teleport the warriors through the monolith if the entire squad has been shot down. At least 1 model in that unit must be alive in order to teleport.

He should make his WBB rolls, all successful wbb warriors will then join the other squad. The ones that didn't get up are gone.

Pretty much this ^^.

I did not know this. I always thought that dogs laid eggs. And I learned something today.

I get my fanny handed to me by Necrons pretty regularly, so this is some good info to have.

I was lazypete's opponent. I will never play necron again untill they release another codex! This game was fun at the start then all the fun was sucked out by this argument.

That's what I hate about 40k, it's filled with situations that are unclear and involve long discussion to resolve :( I really hope they make the new codex (and 6th edition) rock solid in terms of rules!

Allright, enough venting, carry on

@moyzan: I agree. I put my 'crons on the shelf a while back because the rules were so unclear it was painful to try and play them.

It seems a little ludicrous that you are able to redo your WBB roll through the portal if at least 1 guy was still standing but you can't if all of them were taken out.. even if several of them stand back up due to WBB.

I guess the part I really have a "problem" with is the idea that they'll join the closest unit, even if it's on the other side of the board..

Sure that's RAW but you'd think the monolith would interject and redirect them somehow. Considering, from a necron perspective it would be much better to come out of the monolith and have a chance to repair the still downed 'crons.

Yeah, it doesn't really make any logical sense that I could do it if there was one necron standing out of 20 but I can't if they are all down... I stopped playing my necrons for a while but I tought I would try them again since I bought a monolith. BAD IDEA

It actually makes perfect sense from both a fluff and rules standpoint.

When a Necron goes down, a signal goes out that says they need repaired. While they are down, their energy signature shuts off, and Monoliths need that signature in order to lock on to a friendly target. This is done so that other races can never duplicate that Necron power signature, get teleported, and destroy a Monolith from the inside.

From a rules standpoint, if 1 model is alive, the unit is alive. If all models are down, the unit is wiped. Simple as that. Just be glad you are allowed a WBB roll at all.

Is it a little odd to have models all join a different unit? Maybe, but it beats the alternative of players being cheesey and having dozens of single units running around, units standing back up wherever they want, standing back up on the top floor of ruins from the ground, appearing behind vehicles they were in front of and a long list of other clever things someone could do. What's easier, simply making models from a wiped unit join another like unit? Or listing, in detail, as many different scenarios you can think of and then crossing your fingers that all of them apply (and no new ones arise) when a new edition comes out? This is one of the few times when a rule actually carried over through 3 editions of the game with no problems.

They definitely need a new codex to stay fun, but the old one isn't as horrible as everyone says. It may not be crystal clear just reading through it once or twice really fast, but if you have it, a rulebook, and the faq, you can answer almost all of the questions that arise with it. It's actually much better in that regard than some of the more recent codex's which are eagerly awaiting more faq's.

They discuss this in the FAQ. The downed models are counted as counters, attached to the nearest MODEL of the same type (models in the actual unit the down Cron was in always take priority), and in the case of a tomb spyder deal, the nearest UNIT of the same type. So... the models in the downed squad become part of the still alive squad the second they go down entirely. The Necron player may then teleport the squad that is still alive back through the portal, re-rolling all WBBs taken by that unit and all of the failed WBBs taken by the squad that was previously destroyed. The ones that get back up are joined to unit that is still standing, also the distance measured would be to the still living Necron, to see if the unit is in range of the Portal at all. And also to all those who say that they have been beaten by Cron, and are playing an army 4th edition and up, you arent playing your army right.

Hope this helps.

Just my two cents,

Even if he did have a squad of thirty and they all went down (in the unlikely event another unit suffered the same fate and became a big group), and the monolith did in-fact bring that large unit through the portal, the most warriors he could get out of it is 17.

By the rules of disembarking from a transport(this is basically what is happening when you send unit through the monolith, states it too in power matrix rules), a unit must be atleast 2" (i think) from the point of disembarkment and with that said you can only fit 17 warriors in that area (max i've been able too anyway).

Ive ran into this issue with a 20 warrior squad. 10 die in CC, 2 get back up, send em through the portal, 6 more get back up but because i was only able to fit 17, one is destroyed.

By the rules of disembarking from a transport(this is basically what is happening when you send unit through the monolith, states it too in power matrix rules), a unit must be atleast 2" (i think) from the point of disembarkment and with that said you can only fit 17 warriors in that area (max i've been able too anyway).

If you read the rules of transports then you can see that the squad can instead make an emergency disembarkation and get out simple within 2" of the hull, allowing more like 50 or so to be placed

Razorspirit wrote:Just my two cents,

Even if he did have a squad of thirty and they all went down (in the unlikely event another unit suffered the same fate and became a big group), and the monolith did in-fact bring that large unit through the portal, the most warriors he could get out of it is 17.

Twenty is the theoretical like using perfect alignment. I can get eighteen with ease.

To clarify something. WBB models aren't removed if they can't MAKE the test. However if they can and fail they are removed. That is exactly how WBB is worded. I just felt like bringing this up considering the Necron Special Rule discussion. Most TOs have told me that it is quite acceptable


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just checked it is also FAQ'd that they are only removed by failing the roll.

umm yes they are? The only thing that prevents them from being treated like any other model when they're denied WBB is the res orb, and that has been covered in errata.

GW Necron FAQ "We'll Be Back" section.

Q. When is the range of the ressurection orb checked? At the time the Necron is damaged or at the start of the turn when WBB is rolled?

A. Check the range when a Necron becomes damaged. If at least one (undamaged) model in the unit is within 6" of a resurrection orb at that point, leave the damaged Necron on the board. Otherwise, immediately remove it from the table as a casualty.

In the above 'damaged' is a reference to the specific state of Necrons that have been reduced to zero wounds left as described in the codex. Thusly, there are only three scenarios: 1. The model was damaged normally, remains on the board, and makes its WBB. 2. The model was damaged by something that denies an armor save or double-str. Necrons killed in this manner are treated as normal casualties (see that faq entry). 3. A model has been killed as in 2 but a res orb is within range. The model is treated as if 1.

Config- totally wrong

The downed models do not belong to any unit (as their unit was destroyed) and so may not be targetted by the mono. Any models awaiting wbb in a still standing unit can be ported through, but nothing else can be

As before, if you are not eligible for wbb you are immediately removed, as the only permission you have to remain on tye table is if you are eligible for wbb

TheGreatAvatar wrote:

Also, as an FYI, no more than twenty models on the 28mm bases can fit within in range of the Monolith's opening when teleporting. Anymore are lost.

The most I could ever get was 18. And FYI, the remaining models are not lost, they simply force an emergency disembark.

Really dumb question, but what an emergency disembark?

Deploy anywhere within 2in of the hull but can't do anything the rest of the turn.

Ah, so yeah you could fit more than 17 by doing that