Shooting at teammates/into an active Assault.

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**MR24**

Shooting at teammates: If you have an alied unit that is getting in your way and causing nothing but inconvenience, you must take a morale check. If you "fail", you may shoot these so-called friends! Cruel but there have been times when I've really wanted to take out my gun drones that were about to get assaulted, which would stop me from shooting the assaulting enemy for a turn!
Shooting at Assault: If there is an assault, you cannot shoot at it! This is a pathetic rule designed, as usual, to favour melee-based armies. I say that if you shoot at an enemy locked in combat, if you miss, you count as hitting alies.

Note: These are not the best rules in terms of the rulebook, but would make awesome special rules for Orks, Tyranids or Guard.

**Vendetta 476**

Agreed! It's such a pain in the arse when my guardsman get locked in combat in front of my LR

**terranarc**

You know whats a bigger pain? When my boyz get locked into combat! If I could pellet my foes with lootas while my boyz slash them down, I'd be wiping out enemy units so fast, my goodness.
I think melee units would become even more powerful if people could pull a one-two punch with them.

**Vendetta 476**

it would also be better if it was determined whether there is a clear line of sight to the eniemies, look at this diagram.
O=Lottas
X=Boyz
T=Guardsman

If it were like this:
TTTTTTTTTTTT
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

OOOOOOOOOOO
I would take 6's to hit the Guardsman

However if it were so:

XXXXXXXXXX
TTTTTTTTTT

OOOOOOOO
6's would be required to hit your own fellas.

And if (somehow) like this:

X T
X T
X T

OOOOOOOOOOO

it would be odds your own and evens them or hell it could even be based per loota position.

Just mah idea

**BronzeJon**

Every shot that misses hits a friendly model. Simple.

This would also make static gunlines much more powerful, such as tau and IG, being able to tarpit everything with cheap 50p squads of 10 or 20 and blasting the shizz out of shazz.

**Vendetta 476**

But your idea bronze doesnt take into account the direction of the assualt

**BronzeJon**

I guess, but I was on the thinking that simpler is better, and that any way to use directional info would be way complicato.

OR, lightbulb moment here guys. Roll misses on the to wound chart, these wounds are instead inflicted on and distributed by the controlling player between any number of friendly units in the melee.

Cover saves allowed.

**Vendetta 476**

OK let me get wat you are saying, instead of allocating wounds on the enemy, you can allocate them on your own guys?

NVM RE-Read
However there is one flaw with your idea, when its wounding, the shot is already fired and hitten the target therefore cant suddenly wound your own guys

**Skinnereal**

Eldar vibro cannon can fire at friendlies, so why not other stuff?

**Just Dave**

A Vibro Cannon is only one, rarely used, gun though.

MR24 wrote: This is a pathetic rule designed, as usual, to favour melee-based armies.

Melee is typically the underdog in the Meta at the moment; shooty armies are the most successful atm it seems. IG, for example, do not need a buff.

BronzeJon wrote:Every shot that misses hits a friendly model. Simple.

This would also make static gunlines much more powerful, such as tau and IG, being able to tarpit everything with cheap 50p squads of 10 or 20 and blasting the shizz out of shazz.

Whilst flawed, this is the simplest solution IMHO.
You can shoot into combat, but it's not without cost. Most armies that would choose to shoot into combat have lower BS and costs, therefore this new ability countered by how they they are also likely to hit their own men.
For example, Space Marines in combat with IG. If Guardsmen shoot at them, they have a 50/50 chance between hitting their own, weaker, cheaper models who would be more vulnerable to the shots anyway, or they can hit the more expensive tactical marines for little reply.

Ultimately however, I'd say the idea isn't needed. Shooty armies don't need any more help, whilst (judging by the fluff), the only armies likely to risk shooting their own men are Imperial Guard, Orks and Nids. Only the former of which is typically a shooty army and they don't need any improvement competitively.

**PC Veteran**

BronzeJon wrote:Every shot that misses hits a friendly model.

How about every shot that misses is rolled again and hits are applied to the guys getting in the way. I would assume that those shooting would be doing their best to hit the enemy, and not just shooting into the crowd. After all some shots would just miss altogether.

**aka_mythos**

I don't know if this works. There needs to be more of a sever downside. Your men have there back to your men and are physically in between you and your target. I think you should roll to hit your own men and only the misses against them be re-rolled against the enemy... and the enemy gets a cover save.

**PC Veteran**

I like that, but maybe with just normal armor saves.

Only because all of the hits you have made on your own troops would have been the cover the other unit would have been receiving.

**Vendetta 476**

Yeah, and its an improvment on my idea

**aka_mythos**

Its the proposed rules forum, implicitly people are going to build on the different ideas here. Otherwise its just a thumbs up, thumbs down approach to the OP.

**Rocketmike**

This is very similar to the special rule I would like to give to my home-brew Inquisitor. Instead of it being regular for the whole army to be able to shoot at enemies locked in close combat, the army could only fire at the enemies that my inquisitor is locked in combat with, in a sense giving him support. Any shots fired that roll a 1 to hit are taken against my Inquisitor and his unit. Any model wounded may take a 5+ cover save reflecting the quick movements of combat and the mass of weapons and armor of other people getting in the way.

Allowing an entire army to fire into any close combat without a severe downside might be overpowered, but if done correctly I think it would be awesome!

**Zalmout**

I love the idea! maybe units shooting into CC have to take a -1 to BS due to the swirling melee they have a harder time finding their targets. This would make players think twice about shooting anything into a melee with their precious troops.

**Nocturn**

Zalmout wrote:I love the idea! maybe units shooting into CC have to take a -1 to BS due to the swirling melee they have a harder time finding their targets. This would make players think twice about shooting anything into a melee with their precious troops.

Thats exactly the idea I had.

I also sort of like the leadership test idea, but that they must pass their test, and not fail it. If they fail, they aren't willing to risk hitting their buddies, but if they pass, they're convinced that their aim will be true, and the enemies dead.

**Jackmojo**

BronzeJon wrote:Every shot that misses hits a friendly model. Simple.

This is exactly the answer I give every time this comes up, but with the addition of both sides getting cover saves. to represent the actual misses caused...Ork players always complain this makes them more likely to hit their own guys the enemy though

Jack

**Rocketmike**

Orks shouldnt want to fire into CC anyway lol. I suppose every shot that misses could hit a friendly model instead. In any case, I like the idea of a rule kinda like this.

**Bookwrack**

Jackmojo wrote:
BronzeJon wrote:Every shot that misses hits a friendly model. Simple.

This is exactly the answer I give every time this comes up, but with the addition of both sides getting cover saves. to represent the actual misses caused...Ork players always complain this makes them more likely to hit their own guys the enemy though

Jack

So what about if you only have one model in combat vs twenty enemies? Even space marines would be hitting their own captain (or whoever) one shot out of every three. Or it's twenty guys vs a couple of MCs.

**Jackmojo**

Simplicity trumps realism basically.

I'm not gonna suggest a rule where one has to figure ratios to shoot something. Something simple like the more out numbered side gets +1 to their cover save would be about as far as I'd want to go.

Jack

**ZacktheChaosChild**

This is one thing I hope is changed in 6th ed.

**Dracheous**

Not sure about the anything that misses auto hits own squad, sure that's a GREAT deterrent, won't be firing any Punishers at squads combating my own any time soon, maybe Hydra's.

I wish Ordnance or any template weapons could however. Automatically target enemy unit that causes least damage to squad or furthest from friendly unit and fire ((scatter)). At least with a template you KNOW how many hits to roll/take. Often look at those squads besieged and say "In the real world, those guys are dead already, the ANY chance to survive danger close fire is far better than NO chance to survive giant meat cleaver swinging hulks of unstopping green skin. And if it were Nid's nuke the whole place from orbid, every last man there is dead anyway no matter how far they ran."

Not sure how you'd fluff up 10 shots from a Punisher missing giant orks, but knocking down 10 puny Hummies

.

**punkow**

Personally I'd go for something like this:

1- You roll to hit
2-you reroll successful hits. If you hit <gain you hit enemy. If you miss, you hit your troops
3-cover saves for interposing units apply as normal
4-inflicetd wounds do not cause a normal morale check for 25%+ casualties. instead they count as wounds inflicted in the assault. Every wound inflicted on your side count as 2 wounds, since it's very demoralizing finding yourself under friendly fire...>

**AustonT**

I'm pretty sure this exact scenario is addressed in the BRB and I have rather severe doubts they would reverse course this far in.

**MR24**

Awesome ideas for additions, guys! Just keep in mind that these are the most basic rules. If the rulebook had this, there would be a whole bunch of additional complications. As for the inverted morale, it's because units with high morale, like Space Marines or Necrons are either not very expendable or too rightious to betray. Tyranids and stuff would be far more likely. Also, if this was an official rule, armies like Dark Eldar would probably have a special rule due to their evil intent.

**Nocturn**

Good point.

**Lord Magnus**

You could roll to hit, and for every successful cover save your opponent makes, you could roll again to wound your own models.

**Grakmar**

Oh look, it's this thread again.

This has been discussed to death, and it simply is a bad idea. The game balance would get totally thrown out of whack (imagine a small IG unit assaulting an Ork horde just to allow for the pie plates to wipe everything out). And, it gives massive advantages to some armies (SM in particular) with a massive disadvantage to others (Orks, who would be more likely to hit their own guys than the opponent's).

GW has been firm on the "no shooting into CC" for the entire history of the game. It's not going to change any time soon.

The only way this may work/be logical/actually happen is in the case of Tau drones. I could see the next Tau codex introducing a rule allowing CC involving only drones to be fired into.