Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can Hive Guard,or a unit using astral aim,fire through friendly and enemy modals,obviously giving a cover save?Also,what would the cover save from Hive Guard or Astral Aim be,if theere is absolutly no LOS?

Astral aim specifies what kind of save is granted. Hive Guard rules are also very clear as to how and when cover saves are allowed from their shooting.

Remember the general rule of thumb is a 4+ cover save.

INormally,it is a 4+,but with Hive Guard,there is nothing to see.When a unit can barely be seen,it is usually a 3+ save,being upgraded.

First off,can they actually fire through other units,such as Land Raiders,to shoot to squad behind?

There is no such rule that says if you can barely be seen you get a 3+ cover save. You may be getting confused with the vehicle cover saves rules that says if you can't see the facing you are firing at the target gets a 3+ cover save.

The answer is yes they can shoot. And sorry for bringing it up but you should take a look at the codexes. Giving out the rules is against Dakka policy I believe unless there is something unclear. In this case both questions are answered in the relevant codexes.

Deadshot - sorry, what?

You dont get a 3+ save from "barely being seen" - you get the cover save of the obstacle you are being obscured by. If you are (for infantry) 1% or 99% covered the cover save is EXACTLY the same.

Where youre getting confused is with *vehicles* and shooting at an arc you can see but are not in; if you cannot see the arc you are in, at all, but can see another arc you fire at that arc (and armour value) but you grant a 3+ cover save instead of the usual 4+

Hive guard and Astral Aim'ed squads do not need LOS to fire, tehrefore they can "fire thhrough" land raiders, intact buildings etc to hit their target. Remember your shooting requirements - check range and LOS, nothing about "firing through" there

The Nid codex just says they m,ay only claim cover if it lies between them and the HG.

I am thinking of how you modify cover if there is little to be seen of the unit


1=My squad(any unit)
2=Unit
_______=wall



222222
---------




111




Here,my squad can only see 1 modal,so they get a 3+ cover save.Maybe is this just a house rule I have unknowingly made?

Most definitely a house rule.

And you are missing the first part of the hive guard impaler cannon entry which is key.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Specifically "The target can only count the benefits of the cover they are in or touching"

Lukus83 wrote:And you are missing the first part of the hive guard impaler cannon entry which is key.

Specifically "The target can only count the benefits of the cover they are in or touching"

Remember that

rulebook Page 22 wrote:Models that are completely out of sight are considered in cover..."

Yes but in the example given above the unit is visible. Only 1 model but visible nonetheless.

Yes, and the rest are out of sight, so out of the 6 models in the unit above, 1 is visible fully, and 5 are "considered in cover"

nosferatu1001 wrote:Deadshot - sorry, what?

You dont get a 3+ save from "barely being seen" - you get the cover save of the obstacle you are being obscured by. If you are (for infantry) 1% or 99% covered the cover save is EXACTLY the same.

Where youre getting confused is with *vehicles* and shooting at an arc you can see but are not in; if you cannot see the arc you are in, at all, but can see another arc you fire at that arc (and armour value) but you grant a 3+ cover save instead of the usual 4+

Hive guard and Astral Aim'ed squads do not need LOS to fire, tehrefore they can "fire thhrough" land raiders, intact buildings etc to hit their target. Remember your shooting requirements - check range and LOS, nothing about "firing through" there

This. Only less assinine.

asinine, unless you were attempting a poor pun with a homophone?

DeathReaper wrote:Yes, and the rest are out of sight, so out of the 6 models in the unit above, 1 is visible fully, and 5 are "considered in cover"

This has been argued to death hasn't it? Couldn't it just mean, "units may only count the benefits of cover that they are in[side] or touching."?

The BGB is talking about a very general "in cover". Whereas the Tyranid Codex, I believe, is talking about you actually being inside "cover". It would have been more clear had they said in "terrain", but we know how GW writes.

If you always got a cover save from Hive Guard's shots for being out of LOS, why put an exception in the rules about it?

Because you can not normally target anything that is completely out of LoS.

Its possible they meant in[side], but there is no way to know what they meant, so we have to play it how it reads.

DeathReaper wrote:Because you can not normally target anything that is completely out of LoS.

Its possible they meant in[side], but there is no way to know what they meant, so we have to play it how it reads.

Right. To me, it reads in[side]. Example: "Is he in the house?"

Sure, but read the whole quote on the Hive guard weapons:

"The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the hive guard"

That says to me, if they are in or touching cover it must lie between them and the hive guard to claim a cover save.

If you are totally out of LoS you are considered to be in cover.

"The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the hive guard"
So we're told how to handle cover they are in or touching.

Other cover (which they are not in or touching) counts as normal since we have nothing telling us otherwise.