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Hi everyone. Again, I'm working on converting my Nids from 4th to 5th and my next question is on my Flyrant.

The way I see it, unless you plan on hanging your Tyrant in the back lines taking pot shots, for 25pts Old Adversary is a no brainer (am I wrong?). By extension, you don't throw wings on a Tyrant to have him hang back like a chump . That being the case, the 2 scything talons I use to run him with become sadly unnecessary. So now what. It seems like the question is do I want to the throw him at hero units and rock the bsword & lashwhip + devs, or 2x TL devs for mowing down infantry. It just seems so odd that scything talons do nothing for him in CC anymore unless you really need to shave those 25 points for OA.

I'm also picking up some gargoyles this week. I love how effective they've become in 5th! Super cheap upgrades, swarm them with an OA flyrant and they're assaulty little buggers.

How do you guys like to kit and use your Flyrant? Thanks!

Wings, Old Adversary, 2X scything Talons.

I run him with a Harpy and a full brood of gargoyles.
Gargs give cover to the harpy, which in turn gives it to the Tyrant.
2X tlaons ARE necessary, because the tyrant will be taking on tanks. Old Adversary does not allow re-rolls on tanks, but 2x talons do. The old adversary is merely a nice touch for the gargoyles (gross. just gross what TS/AG gargoyles with old adversary do to marines on the charge), and if you can fly it up to where the genestealers are, things get... I believe the technical term is "buttjumped"... very quickly for the opponent.

I usually play around 2000 points, but if I'm going to play a larger game, I looove to also give this guy Hive commander and then also take a swarmlord. They are both 280 points, and both give +1 to reserves. Deep strike everything , get them in on a 2+, and take 40+ genestealers that Infiltrate on turn one. Make sure to collect the opponent's tears, as they are so deliciously sweet. I use my collected tears in coffee.

Why on the Emperor's Holy Terra would you leave him with 2 sets of Scthing Talons if he already gets Rerolls to hit becuase of Old Adversary?!Give him the Lash Whip and Bonesword and a gun,preferrably a Heavy Venom Cannon.Use the Harpy for Vehicles,where his below average Str can actually do something.

Deadshot wrote:Why on the Emperor's Holy Terra would you leave him with 2 sets of Scthing Talons if he already gets Rerolls to hit becuase of Old Adversary?!Give him the Lash Whip and Bonesword and a gun,preferrably a Heavy Venom Cannon.Use the Harpy for Vehicles,where his below average Str can actually do something.

I picked up that as well. What deadshot says makes sense.

Doomthumbs wrote:2X talons ARE necessary, because the tyrant will be taking on tanks. Old Adversary does not allow re-rolls on tanks, but 2x talons do.

Well... That guy already seems to have put it quite well.

Old Adversary grants the Preferred Enemy USR. Preferred enemy does not work versus vehicles without a WS.
So, 2x Talons is a very nice choice, even with Old Adversary. It's not totally redundant, because re-rolls against vehicles is a nice trait in a codex that classicly has trouble with vehicles.

That is what the HVC is for.Str 9 blast.One set is enough,for rerolling 1s.Even 1 attack can take out any vehicle,other than a Monolith,which he can't hurt,even with Adrenal Glands FC.


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Hapies have Str 5,so charge a vehicle,where Adrenal Glnads will give him Str 6,Int 6(so he hits before all other units)and his TL HVC can devastate vehicles.


To be fair,I filed a footslogger with Armoured shell,and 2 Guard,but I know that you never go without OA,unless you are high when writing the army list.

Deadshot wrote:That is what the HVC is for.Str 9 blast.One set is enough,for rerolling 1s.Even 1 attack can take out any vehicle,other than a Monolith,which he can't hurt,even with Adrenal Glands FC.
To be fair,I filed a footslogger with Armoured shell,and 2 Guard,but I know that you never go without OA,unless you are high when writing the army list.

HVC is one shot, with -1 to the damage charts.
Just about the most unreliable damage the you could possibly ask for. Its definitely good for keeping a tank from firing while a footslogging nid list trundles across the board.

The harpy is also useful for taking out tanks, I agree. But how many players do you know of that run more than one tank? I know quite a few. Harpies get 3 attacks. If the tank moved at all you need 4s. If it moved far you need 6s. Needing 6s to hit with no reroll leaves you with a frowny face.

Needing a 6 on 5 dice, with rerolls, will at least give you one 6, where the 2d6 MC penetration dice do great.

On a winged tyrant, taking LW/Bonesword is such a bad idea, because it assumes you will be charging it into combat. How many units can you name that have power weapons? Almost all of them. Who cares if you go first if you can only kill 5 at max before taking wounds away from your total of 4? I much prefer my tyrant to have to lose his wounds by enemy shooting, and for him to be a tank hunter/ support unit for other dedicated CC groups.

If I'm attacking a monolith with my winged Tyrant I've already lost that game anyway. Against anything else, especially a landraider, 2x talons is very nice to have.

Edit: Or a Trygon

Doomthumbs wrote:Wings, Old Adversary, 2X scything Talons.

I run him with a Harpy and a full brood of gargoyles.
Gargs give cover to the harpy, which in turn gives it to the Tyrant.

Ok, I've seen some people say that gargoyles can give a flyrant cover with a sufficient screen and wingy-ness? What's the consensus on that? And is the harpy enough to grant sufficient cover since it's just 1 model, that's not much of a screen? Is the idea just make sure he's positioned between the Flyrant and the biggest gun in the enemy arsenal, all other guns have a field day? Again, I'm trying to wrap my head around 5th.

Doomthumbs wrote:2X tlaons ARE necessary, because the tyrant will be taking on tanks. Old Adversary does not allow re-rolls on tanks, but 2x talons do. The old adversary is merely a nice touch for the gargoyles (gross. just gross what TS/AG gargoyles with old adversary do to marines on the charge), and if you can fly it up to where the genestealers are, things get... I believe the technical term is "buttjumped"... very quickly for the opponent.

Ah, vehicles, of course, good call. In 4th, one of my Flyrants finest moments was flying up the flank and, as you say, "buttjumping" a lineup of IG tanks. I have a very genestealer heavy selection of models, I can't WAIT to see them rampaging with OA.

Doomthumbs wrote:I usually play around 2000 points, but if I'm going to play a larger game, I looove to also give this guy Hive commander and then also take a swarmlord. They are both 280 points, and both give +1 to reserves. Deep strike everything , get them in on a 2+, and take 40+ genestealers that Infiltrate on turn one. Make sure to collect the opponent's tears, as they are so deliciously sweet. I use my collected tears in coffee.

Good stuff! I am SO anxious to play a game. The bummer is I look at my models and realize what I use to field lost some synergy in this edition, so I'm going to have to pick up a few things. But what's interesting is with an army I had to squeeze the points out of in 4th edition to hit 2000 now *EASILY* cruises over the 2500 mark depending on how I set them up.

If you pick up anything, Gargoyles, Hive guard, and genestealers are the best units in the codex now.

Most everything suffers from enemy shooting, and really should be in CC as often as possible, or else getting a cover save. Gargoyles are ok for screening, but just to keep my tyrant safe I modeled a slightly larger than a shrike harpy that acts as a roving bodyguard. I just keep it between the tyrant and the bulk of incoming fire. Ap3 without a coversave makes for a quickly dead 255+ point model.

Well awesome, that was my purchase priority *exactly*, gargoyles and hive guards (I already have a heap of GSes). I also figured getting cover for my flyrant was a top priority since he's going to attract gunfire like crazy.

I have 2 carnifexes as well, I figured I'd convert one to a Tervigon and 1 to a Tyrannofex. Good idea? No?

IMO 2 tervigons. The S10 gun is enticing, but is really unnecessary. Unless you see that much LRspam. In which case, my condolences.

Edit: I completely forget to mention. Tervigons are great. Like, really great. A lot of competitive lists will see 3-5 (they just make such great troop choices)

1 tervigon is always a good idea, put it in the troops section along with a spod full of devourer termagants.

I recently had a great time by putting a rupture tfex on top of a building and dominating the board with it. I squashed 2 demon princes and a landraider. If the enemy is worried about the tyrant and gargoyles, this is a great distraction unit.

+1 to the OA and two talons. It's just the smart thing to do. HVC is almost worthless. On a harpy less so because of twin linked, but it's only use is to stun vehicles so the harpy can hit it automatically.


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There are much better troop choices than a tervigon. Even for 160 points I'd much rather have toxic genestealers.

Here is how my friend (who plays Tyranids when he gets bored with his guard) plays his Flyrant, and does really, really well:

Wings
Paroxysm/Life Leech
2x TL Devos
AG

He holds this guy back in reserve, and waits until his army has advanced a few turns and then deepstrikes him off to one side. He shoots something, then proceeds to roll up a side.

Never assault super units, no invulnerable dooms you to failure. The same goes for deepstriking in the middle of a force, it just wont end well.

As cool as a flyrant with devourers is, consider this:

12 shots at bs3, twin linked. Hitting on 4s. 6 hits, and then 3 turned over on the twin linked, 9 total hits. Against t4, they will wound on anything but a 1, so let's be generous and say all but 1 wound no, screw it, no missed wounds. 9 wounds against... Marines, let's say.
Marines will take 3+ armor saves and only three will die.

Of the seven remaining marines, what are the odds of them having meltas and a power fist? Pretty high. Three marines just are not worth a 270 point tyrant. If they only took off 1 wound a turn, 12 marines is still less.

A pod of devourer armed gants gets 60 shots, 30 hits, 15 wounds, and 5 dead marines for 240 points. Let the tyrant be a tank hunting preferred enemy bubble instead. Let the troop choices carry the devourers.

I was going to start a thread about this but since there's already a thread going, i'll just post here. Is Hive Comander still worthless if i am putting my entire army in reserve? Cause if i had it then more units would come in sooner as opposed to later. Also, why are gargoyles considered such a good unit?

I've found that if you decide to reserve your army, everything coming on as soon as possible is for the best. You're going to start coming in on turn 2, so really a +1 from HC is the difference between half of it coming in or two thirds coming in.
I prefer most coming in, so as to be able to focus fire down a unit or two.

Gargs are considered good because of cheap upgrades and 12 inch move. A unit of 30 with ts/ag supported by old adversary is capable of damage that is truly scary. For 240 points. Say they charge 10 marines.
2 attacks each at WS 3, needing 4s to hit. Half of 60 attacks will land. 6s to hit become wounds, so 10 of the 60 are already wounds. 30 will miss and get re rolls, so another 5 auto and 10 more potential wounds. So far that's 15 wounds and 30 potential wounds on a 4+ due to poison.
30 chances at 4+ gives 15 more wounds. Since they are s4 on the charge, more re rolls. 22 after refills, rounding down, plus the 15 auto wounds. 37 wounds.
Marines with a 3+ armor save will only die 1/3 of the time. So they're already dead. Add to this that the tyrantmight have made them WS/bs 1, plus the tyrants attacks... Your opponent just basically begs you to stop rolling dice.

That looks good on paper but are all 30 gargoyles really going to make it into combat? you can bet that if you're oponent is smart, the gargs are going to be a prime shooting target. With only a 6+ armor save, even a single marine combat squad will do major damage. Not to say the strategy won't work. Even if a tactical marine squad rapid fired into the gargs, there would probably still be enough models to win the assult. But you have to ask yourself is this unit worth 240 points? Are they really going to kill 240 points worth of units? I have no experience with nids but it seems like there are better things to spend you're points on. Maybe I'm wrong, but unless someone can give me first hand experience of this unit working well I'm probably going to pass on these guys.

It works. If they kill half of the gargs they still die.
Thing with tyranids is to make the other guy have too many bad options. Gargs, hive guard, genesteslers, and devgants all are coming at you, what do you shoot first?

I see you're point but you'd have to be playing a large list to make these guys efective. You have to be able to lose 240 points or more of you're army and still pull off a win.

The synapse.Make them back to LD 6.Take away the fearless,and force IB.Then go to the thing that gets closest first.

... Where their initiative 4 and leadership 6 almost guarantee that they break and get cut down. Just keep them fearless and lose a few more. They won't ever lose combat with the tyrant nearby anyway.

240 points is a lot, but that's the same cost as a pod of 20 devgants or 30 toxic hormagaunts.

I proxied the gargs and they seem to do preety well in combination with the tyrant's psychic powers. They even won against a 10 man Assult terminator unit. As I said on a different forum, I'll play a couple of proxy games and see how it goes.