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Shotgun(buckshot):str3,ap-,assault1,range12'',blast*deduct twice the users bs when deciding blast scatter.
Shotgun(soliid slug):str4,ap6,assault1,range15''.
Obviously the shotgun would become more expensive in points due to these stats, yet considering that they are used almost entirely by space marine scouts and imperial guard veterans, and the fact that they currently cost no points for both units, then bumping up the points shouldn't prove too difficult.

You realize the effective "blast" of buck shot is only about a 1 foot spread... on the tabletop that translates to ~10mm or .4inches. Not a 2" circle... which would be the equivalent of a shotgun making 7-8 foot "blast."

Next slugs have less accurate range, about 1/3 less than buckshot.

If you're going to have these stats I'd recommend just coming up with different names. For example in 2nd edition there were Executioner rounds for the adeptus arbite... those were translated into 3rd as S4 AP5 Assault 1 Range 18" with a re-roll to hit... different than yours but close enough.

lol, buckshot would actually have to be less than ap- in the rules.

Against buckshot, your armor save is lowered by 1 (flak armor becomes 4+, for example).

Sure, it can do some damage, but it can't penetrate armor very well, certainly far less than something like an autogun with armor piercing bullets (Which flak armor STILL provides protection against-- think of it as a remarkably light and armor that's capable of absorbing the impact and preventing penetration (most of the time) from the equivalent of an AK47 with FMJ bullets)

I wouldn't go that far. At SV 5+ and 6+, individuals still aren't completely covered in armor... so I think within the abstract extremes AP - is appropriate. Even AP 6 should be justifiable by virtue of the fact that when Catachans had their own codex, their next to complete lack of armor still afforded them a 6+ save. As it is at AP- it's as you say Melissa, less than armor penetrating. At AP6 your talking about penetrating heavy clothes and bulging muscle.

aka_mythos wrote:You realize the effective "blast" of buck shot is only about a 1 foot spread... on the tabletop that translates to ~10mm or .4inches. Not a 2" circle... which would be the equivalent of a shotgun making 7-8 foot "blast."

Next slugs have less accurate range, about 1/3 less than buckshot.

If you're going to have these stats I'd recommend just coming up with different names. For example in 2nd edition there were Executioner rounds for the adeptus arbite... those were translated into 3rd as S4 AP5 Assault 1 Range 18" with a re-roll to hit... different than yours but close enough.

What kind of slugs are you shooting?! You must not know anything about slug hunting. I get get 100+ meter accuracy out of a slug firing shotgun...


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Banzaimash wrote:Shotgun(buckshot):str3,ap-,assault1,range12'',blast*deduct twice the users bs when deciding blast scatter.
Shotgun(soliid slug):str4,ap6,assault1,range15''.
Obviously the shotgun would become more expensive in points due to these stats, yet considering that they are used almost entirely by space marine scouts and imperial guard veterans, and the fact that they currently cost no points for both units, then bumping up the points shouldn't prove too difficult.

Try this:

Purification Shells - ST3 AP- Template
Divine Penetrator - Range 18" ST4 AP6 Assault 1

Put some imagination into it...try to give people less to gripe about when you put forward a new idea or rules change.

ForgottenRealm wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:You realize the effective "blast" of buck shot is only about a 1 foot spread... on the tabletop that translates to ~10mm or .4inches. Not a 2" circle... which would be the equivalent of a shotgun making 7-8 foot "blast."

Next slugs have less accurate range, about 1/3 less than buckshot.

If you're going to have these stats I'd recommend just coming up with different names. For example in 2nd edition there were Executioner rounds for the adeptus arbite... those were translated into 3rd as S4 AP5 Assault 1 Range 18" with a re-roll to hit... different than yours but close enough.

What kind of slugs are you shooting?! You must not know anything about slug hunting. I get get 100+ meter accuracy out of a slug firing shotgun...

The military kind. In fairness these things aren't the greatest and are being fired out of smoothbores; I know you can find rifled slug barrels and that those help. On the test range we tend to want mil-spec slugs to strike within a 2 foot box at 100yds. The buckshot always hits the box; the slug not so much. Slugs are inherently aerodynamically unstable thus their tumble is less predictable.

I think that there shouldn't be a a blast but there should be automatic shotguns at 8pts more with a stat similar to:

range 12 strength 3 Ap - assault 3

I think that applying current shotgun technology, which is relatively unchanged in the last century to 40k is weak sauce. I visualize shotguns in 40k as firing 40x51mm shells packed with stabilized depleted uranium flechettes.
I'd love to see shotguns be a S3 AP- template or a S3 AP 6 assault 2 with 18inches.


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As a choice my bad, forgot some words

i would have thought that they would have reinforced the automatic shotgun idea because you would be fighting 100s of guys in the 40k world compared to the few you fight in modern war. therefore more practical

Hooking Squaks wrote:I think that there shouldn't be a a blast but there should be automatic shotguns at 8pts more with a stat similar to:

range 12 strength 3 Ap - assault 3

Ripper guns are described as fully automatic shotguns. So that would be the appropriate statline... just no rules for clubbing how ogyrns tend to use.

The shotgun used IS an automatic shotgun, with the same rate of fire as a storm bolter (basically an LMG)

There's no way to know that. The game mechanic is particularly an abstraction when it comes to number of shots. The fact that a weapon is assault 2, can represent the volume of fire as it does with the stormbolter, or in the case of a shotgun that the spread of shot effectively creates a hail of fire. Add to that there is nothing fluffwise stating those shotguns are fully automatic.. and there is nothing about model representation to clue you to that fact; they're portrayed as pump action weapons.

Unlike the basic shotgun the Ogryn ripper gun is described as robust "auto-shotgun."

Whats about Dragon Breath rounds, DUDE flame-throwing Shotgun rounds!

Nightfall wrote:Whats about Dragon Breath rounds, DUDE flame-throwing Shotgun rounds!

Meh. They only occasionally shoot out flames. They're mostly used only for signalling.

I'm guessing you got the idea from CoD? Their use is... fairly exaggerated.

I always thought that with shotties there should be some mechanic to represent their effectiveness in close range and/or their knock-back effect.

For the Close Range Rule it could be that the shot loses 1S for every inch it is away from from the target, to a minimum of 3.

and for the Knock back it could be that the targeted squad must take a pinning test/loses 1I

The problem with representing a shotgun as a template weapon is that you're essentially representing it as a ball-busting, fanning-out death cannon that shoots a cloud of pellets that penetrate through every target until it stops on something. I'd almost go as far as to just make them twin-linked, since it's really not that hard to hit something with one.