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Can I use Gates of Infinity inside a Land Raider and teleport him and his squad of termies out to some where elese?

Yes, you can.

But how?
To me this smells mega cheesy !?

I take it as its a Psychic power and not a Psychic shooting Attack and we can all use Powers in vehicles? just be glad the raider doesn't go too!!!

Hmm yeah as that would be even worse!


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Anyone else have an opinion on this or is it that yes he can teleport out?

Not 100% sure on the wording, but if its phrased as "the librarian and his unit" and its not a shooting attack then yes it would work like that.

Yes it's working as intended, nothing cheesy about it.

Libby + Squad may GOI from LR to any point within 24" of the hull of the LR

simply yes

WanderingFox wrote:Not 100% sure on the wording, but if its phrased as "the librarian and his unit" and its not a shooting attack then yes it would work like that.

Even if it was a PSA used on the librarian and his unit, he could still use it while embarked.

However it is not a PSA, and it does not replace the Librarians movement, so he can use it while embarked.

He cant use a PSA inside a LR as there are no fire points

If it was a PSA, it would be hard to use mainly as the LR lacks firing points.

You only need a fire point to shoot out of the Land raider.

To hit himself or the unit he is with (If there is such a power) he would be allowed since he is targeting the unit inside the transport with him, and not firing out of the transport.

Well what I was getting at is you can't "shoot" yourself.

It's disallowed in the first step of the shooting sequence

GOI is not a PSA. It's "The librarian and any unit he is with"

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:GOI is not a PSA. It's "The librarian and any unit he is with"

we're well aware, it was an IF IT WAS A PSA situation

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Well what I was getting at is you can't "shoot" yourself.

It's disallowed in the first step of the shooting sequence

Except for some Nid powers you would be correct. But they exist, so you're not

1 power in particular.Onslaught.It is a PSA that hits a friendly unit(and stops the Tervigon from firing other weapons).Catalyst isn't a PSA,and niether is Dominion,obviously.The Hive Tyrant powers and Zoanthrope powers are PSA,but the broodlord's isn't.The Doom's Cataclysm is,but it targets enemies.


So only 1.

AH... I don't think they can because the Libby and his unit aren't considered to be "on the tabletop".

Theybare considered on the table,because they can disembark,or shoot,if there were fire points.If they are not on the table they couldn't do this.

They are embarked in the Land Raider.... and therefore may disembark onto the tabletop or stay embarked and shoot from any fire points.

Once they disembark.... they are now on the tabletop.

Just saying that just because they are in play doesn't necessarily mean they are on the tabletop.

But whatevs. No official ruling... not even an INATFAQ on it... play it however you want.

According to the rules you can cast the power.

Yes you can use GoI while inside a land raider. It's kinda the same thing as null zone. You would just measure the 24" distance from any point on the hull of the raider for the movement.

Tsannik wrote:They are embarked in the Land Raider.... and therefore may disembark onto the tabletop or stay embarked and shoot from any fire points.

Once they disembark.... they are now on the tabletop.

Just saying that just because they are in play doesn't necessarily mean they are on the tabletop.

But whatevs. No official ruling... not even an INATFAQ on it... play it however you want.

Seconded. I see an awful lot of people saying "the rules say you can use it that way", but I don't see any evidence for that situation being addressed in the rules at all. I'm not saying you can't, just saying it's not addressed.

Yes. You can cast powers from inside a vehicle. If the power needs LOS or is a psychic shooting attack (but I think all powers that need LOS are PSAs) you need a firing point, if it doesn't, you don't.

However, there is a very strong precedent that you cannot affect models inside a vehicle. They are in many ways not actually there. Now, all the cases I can think of where that's relevant, the target unit is an enemy unit, in which case it is clearly not allowed. (Let me know if you can think of exceptions.) Most powers that you can think of, actually would affect the surrounding vehicle, such as shrouding. Does that rule change just because the unit is friendly, or that they are in the same vehicle? I'm not sure it does. Yes, logic says it should, but common sense logic is not the governing set of rules here.

Related question, can you summon (THE GK power) a from inside a vehicle? I'm not sure that you can. I think you summon the vehicle or nobody.



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ToI wrote:Yes you can use GoI while inside a land raider. It's kinda the same thing as null zone. You would just measure the 24" distance from any point on the hull of the raider for the movement.

It's not the same thing at all. Null zone is a power cast from inside a vehicle, which is fine, affecting units outside the vehicle, which is also fine. You're talking about affecting a unit inside a transport, which is actually a different matter altogether.

Gate of infinity does not require LOS...

Q: Can a model use a psychic power that is not a
Psychic Shooting Attack if it is embarked in a transport
vehicle? (p50)
A: Yes. If the power requires line of sight, this is still
worked out from the vehicle’s fire points (this will
count as one model shooting through that fire point if
the power is used in the Shooting phase).
If the psychic power does not require line of sight and
has a range or an area of effect that is normally
measured from the model using it, these are measured
from the vehicle’s hull, as explained in the Embarking
section on page 66.

Combine that with:

Q: Can psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on
a transport? (p50)
A: For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No,
unless the psyker himself is in the unit being
transported’

Did anyone suggest it needed LOS? I didn't. Don't know why you're bringing that up.

However, the second point is pretty convincing.

The first point is emphasis that as a power that doesn't require LOS,it follows the rules for the second point.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Well what I was getting at is you can't "shoot" yourself.

It's disallowed in the first step of the shooting sequence

Although the original question has been thoroughly answered, I did want to point something out:

You can absolutely "shoot" yourself. You can't target your own models (except for the powers listed earlier for 'nids), but you can certainly shoot them. Consider a scattered blast weapon...

Gate requires you to remove the models from the table. This is not qualified with "if they are on the table," this is a required step in the power.

If you read your embark section, you will find that embarking ALSO removes your models from the table.

You can not remove models from the table that another special rule already required you to remove from the table.

You may absolutely not use GoI on an embarked unit. You must be on the table. Embarking EXPLICITLY removes the models from the table, exactly the same that GOI requires you to do. You must disembark to use GoI.

DevianID wrote:Gate requires you to remove the models from the table. This is not qualified with "if they are on the table," this is a required step in the power.

If you read your embark section, you will find that embarking ALSO removes your models from the table.

You can not remove models from the table that another special rule already required you to remove from the table.

You may absolutely not use GoI on an embarked unit. You must be on the table. Embarking EXPLICITLY removes the models from the table, exactly the same that GOI requires you to do. You must disembark to use GoI.

OK, I also find that very convincing logic. WanderingFOX kinda had me convinced with:

Q: Can psychic powers be used on a unit embarked on
a transport? (p50)
A: For simplicity’s sake, the answer has to be a firm ‘No,
unless the psyker himself is in the unit being
transported’

Now, DeviantID's point directly contradicts that. That leaves me right back where we started, where I'll say it's currently "unknown". However, DeviantID's point seems like the one that would have precedent, as it doesn't matter much if it is, or is not, legal to cast a power in the same transport with you --- They indeed are not on the table.

Also, besides that, I find the idea of teleporting out of a vehicle directly a little silly. So, I'm like 80% "no" then.

DevianID wrote:Gate requires you to remove the models from the table. This is not qualified with "if they are on the table," this is a required step in the power.

If you read your embark section, you will find that embarking ALSO removes your models from the table.

You can not remove models from the table that another special rule already required you to remove from the table.

You may absolutely not use GoI on an embarked unit. You must be on the table. Embarking EXPLICITLY removes the models from the table, exactly the same that GOI requires you to do. You must disembark to use GoI.

So, by this logic, if a Shokk Attack Gun removed the vehicle from play (double 6's), it would not affect the people inside?