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Now this is a question that's been haunting me for months.

The Stormraven and Land Raider(s) do have different purposes yes, but generally speaking, what one do you like best and think is the more effective?

To make it clearer, what one would you run the fastest from.

(Any type of Land Raider)

I prefer the stormraven. It can go flat-out first turn, so the CC unit inside can do damage, as can the attached dread.

That is a great thing about the Stormraven but for some reason I can't get over the chance of moving flat out and then getting destroyed from an immobilized result. How likely would that be to happen? you do get a 4+ cover save if you move flat out but a 0.5 chance of being destroyed is a lot more than a 0.33 chance.

I'm not sure you can compare them really. Although similar, they are both really very different. A stormraven has a lot more guns and dangerous transport capacity than a land raider, and it can move a lot faster, but it is easier to kill.

A land raider is very hard to kill outside of melta range/CC but has a lot less damage output and a lot slower movement speed. It also can't carry a dread.

These are really big differences, because you should generally expect a LR to last til turn 4-5 if moving forward and the whole game if staying back. However a SR should come on, drop cargo, shoot guns and pray. Because chances are it won't see another turn.

The stormraven is considerably more offensive and the LR considerably more defensive. As such I would run away from a stormraven faster (although given it's speed running away is mostly irrelevant)

The Bloodbearer wrote:That is a great thing about the Stormraven but for some reason I can't get over the chance of moving flat out and then getting destroyed from an immobilized result. How likely would that be to happen? you do get a 4+ cover save if you move flat out but a 0.5 chance of being destroyed is a lot more than a 0.33 chance.

If i'm destroyed, oh well. But I still have 5 termies + chaplain + maybe dread if I'm using one in your face.

For 205pts the Stormraven seems a bit much to be expendable, it will drop the troops in it but all guns will fire at it the first turn and with A12 it can be damaged by plasma guns, missile launchers and the guns that weren't intended to take out these important vehicles. Also, a marine with a melta gun still has a 33% of penentrating the Stormraven with a meltagun.

Wouldn't you want something for 200+ points to have a higher chance of lasting longer?

However when facing Dark Eldar or Eldar all the lances you'll be facing will make you grateful you took the stormraven instead of the land raider. Why pay the points for AV 14 facing those armies when you'll end up being 12 anyway.

I'd run further from a land raider because they are too much effort to bother killing, and an 12" movement distance is a lot less than 24", so it can be avoided easier than a stormraven.

Stormravens I'd probably just turn most of my heavy guns on, if it flat outs an immobilised result kills it, and potentially pins the crew. That and av12 (as has been mentioned) can be nuked by a variety of weapons that wouldn't scratch the paintjob on a raider. Av12 isn't worth running from when it can be taken down by a plasma pistol, lol

Kirjava wrote:However when facing Dark Eldar or Eldar all the lances you'll be facing will make you grateful you took the stormraven instead of the land raider. Why pay the points for AV 14 facing those armies when you'll end up being 12 anyway.

The OP did say any varient of Land Raider. If that's the case I would expect that infers a Blessed Hull LR. In which case that's the only MEQ that terrifies me.

I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Cerebrium wrote:I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Well, in the next RTT, I'll also field a Stormraven carrying 5 Assault Termies (plus Priest or Chaplain) and a Dread with blood talons. Let's see how this is going to work.

wuestenfux wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Well, in the next RTT, I'll also field a Stormraven carrying 5 Assault Termies (plus Priest or Chaplain) and a Dread with blood talons. Let's see how this is going to work.

I've tried that. It damn works, I can tell you.

woodbok wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Well, in the next RTT, I'll also field a Stormraven carrying 5 Assault Termies (plus Priest or Chaplain) and a Dread with blood talons. Let's see how this is going to work.

I've tried that. It damn works, I can tell you.

Did you attach an IC? If so, which one.

I do the same

SR packed with 2 TH-SS 3LC termies, ussually they have a libby with SS (rage+sword or SoS), but now i am testing astorath so they have stuff from both worlds (FC + rerolls).

wuestenfux wrote:

woodbok wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Well, in the next RTT, I'll also field a Stormraven carrying 5 Assault Termies (plus Priest or Chaplain) and a Dread with blood talons. Let's see how this is going to work.

I've tried that. It damn works, I can tell you.

Did you attach an IC? If so, which one.

Chaplain + priest. Gives them re-rolls to hit, fearless, furious charge, and FNP with an almost guaranteed first turn charge.

I personally am a big fan of the Stormraven , but one of the advantages of the Land Raider are the different patterns that you can use, meaning that with just a few magnets, you get a very flexible model that can be several units.

Ravens.

I have a ton of battle-reps to prove my point, but a raven loaded with say, Priest + Librarian + 5 assault termis people cannot ignore. It gets them to their spot quickly, and statistically going flat out its about as survivable as a raider (mostly due to the ceramite plating). Raiders are good, but rarely will just one do much for you, whereas no matter how many ravens you take they'll always do something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Well, in the next RTT, I'll also field a Stormraven carrying 5 Assault Termies (plus Priest or Chaplain) and a Dread with blood talons. Let's see how this is going to work.

Sang Priest w/ PW, Libby w/ rage/sword, 5x termis w/ 1 LC, 4 TH's. 12 str 5 PW attacks rerolling hits followed by 12 TH attacks. Its sickness.

woodbok wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

woodbok wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:I'll always prefer the stormraven. Faster, less vulnerable to melta, same resistance to lances (i.e.: None), can carry a decent variety of weapon, can carry a dread...

Well, in the next RTT, I'll also field a Stormraven carrying 5 Assault Termies (plus Priest or Chaplain) and a Dread with blood talons. Let's see how this is going to work.

I've tried that. It damn works, I can tell you.

Did you attach an IC? If so, which one.

Chaplain + priest. Gives them re-rolls to hit, fearless, furious charge, and FNP with an almost guaranteed first turn charge.

Ouch! This is a decent unit. And it can carry a Dread with blood talons. In the last game vs. DE (mostly footslogging), he ripped through Incubi and a Beastmaster unit.

The Stormraven does seem to be the transport of choice for a hammer unit that need to get places quickly.

I guess the Dreadnought is just a bonus...

I like the Stormraven personally (at least in GK) as you can get your 4+ cover save from flat out and still fire one weapon with PotMS. Also while there is the risk of an immobilized result the 4+ cover helps to negate the difference between AV12 and AV14 in this case. Not completely, but it does help.

In GK too you take the epic fun of a Libby in the SR and make it a 3+ cover save for flat out, making it a really tough nut to crack...

Personally, I prefer taking both.

But really, while they share similar roles, they perform very differently. It's like the difference between a jab and a hay-maker. They're both punches, but serve different purposes, work in different ways. They're both punches, you're hurting the enemy with both, but how you impact the enemy with them is different.

I've been running the SR with a LR running behind it. SR has Draigo+paladins w/psycannons, as well as a ven dread. So it's a good 800 pts all in one place. The LR has some other hard hitting unit inside it, like GKT or purifiers.

What happens is that the enemy pour their entire army's firepower into the SR, cuz, well they have to, because Draigo+paladins+dread, will murder them. The thing is that they almost always crash right on the enemies door step. This is what I call "dying in the right place". Draigo and the paladins, and ven dread, are really durable, so they can usually survive whatever remaining shooting there is. Sometimes the dread dies, too, not so often. Point is, then Draigo is in charge range, and murders their entire army. Even against CC armies. It's really very surprising just how much Draigo and a few paladins can murder.

Anyway, so it's 200 pts drop pod. Not the plan for everybody, but it works. BTW, then the LR rolls up and murders something else.

In generaly, the SR seems of similar capacity to the LR, but more offensively weighted. It has a bit more firepower, much faster and more aggressive, but even with the tubo-save, even with shrouding, much more delicate.

I'd say they only look very different, but their application is the same - transport the death star to its squishy victims. In this regard, the SR is better, because it can flat out and get there. LRs are simply much slower, must dodge terrain and can immobilize themselves. The SR's can accomplish their mission faster as well and then are free to maraud around; while the LR will likely take one more turn to get the job done.

Av14 as others pointed out is not that impressive in a world full of lances and meltas.

LR cannot carry dreads. The big wings and lame GW rules mean that if the SR gets wrecked, the cargo has a lot of choices where to hit the ground.

TL meltas at close range are better than LRs and will likely grant less cover saves to the victims because of the SR manoverability.

Overall, the SR is decidedly better than LR, IMO.

@ Ashenshugar he also said stormraven, meaning he's either Blood Ravens or Grey Knights, not Dark Angels so he can't take blessed hull

In a Codex Marine Army, I prefer a Land Raider Redeemer; S 6 AP 3 Can tear almost anything up if it gets close enough. In a BA army, though, you can put those on Baal Predators, so I'd rather take a Storm Raven, especially with an army that Assault Heavy.

Necrontyr40k wrote:I'd say they only look very different, but their application is the same - transport the death star to its squishy victims. In this regard, the SR is better, because it can flat out and get there. LRs are simply much slower, must dodge terrain and can immobilize themselves. The SR's can accomplish their mission faster as well and then are free to maraud around; while the LR will likely take one more turn to get the job done.

Av14 as others pointed out is not that impressive in a world full of lances and meltas.

LR cannot carry dreads. The big wings and lame GW rules mean that if the SR gets wrecked, the cargo has a lot of choices where to hit the ground.

TL meltas at close range are better than LRs and will likely grant less cover saves to the victims because of the SR manoverability.

Overall, the SR is decidedly better than LR, IMO.

Well, it's not like I disagree with most of this, but I wouldn't characterize the world as "full of lances". I suppose that depends a great deal on your local meta. The other thing is, I find very little trouble with Meltas. Fact is, there engagement range is 12", maybe 15" deploying out of a transport, while yours is a full 21-22". I rarely have problems with meltas until after I've charged, and then they have other problems.

Like I said, even with a cover save, SR is a lot more delicate. Doesn't mean it's not worth it, but it means it's applications are different.

I've been running dual Stormraven + dual Furioso Blood Talon dreads for counter assault in my mech lists.

One thing I am doing lately is taking brother Corbulo for his 1/game reroll ability. It helps get a raven out of reserve if I go second, or helps it get another cover save if I start them on the table. When I make the cover save using his ability I like to think he gave FNP to the raven

crazyK wrote:I've been running dual Stormraven + dual Furioso Blood Talon dreads for counter assault in my mech lists.

One thing I am doing lately is taking brother Corbulo for his 1/game reroll ability. It helps get a raven out of reserve if I go second, or helps it get another cover save if I start them on the table. When I make the cover save using his ability I like to think he gave FNP to the raven

Dual Stormraven and dual Furioso are a lot of points, at least 650 for 4 models. So you are stacking all eggs into two baskets? Target saturation is key to keep the flyers alive.