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I am sometimes amused about how people get so tied up in the new codex for this or that army. There are always a group of folks that say "Oh no, my army has been nerfed!" and they are of course countered by the crowd that says "This is the best codex ever!". The arguments from both sides make for some entertaining reading at times. The most recent codex I have seen comments on was for Sisters of Battle. I have heard both points in excelsior on different boards. I can understand that if you buy models you want them to be effective but having been in the hobby for a bit now I truly feel that if you want to you can make a competitive army out of just about any codex depending mostly on the play style you enjoy and how serious you are about the game. I'm not that serious about competitive play so just about any army can result in a fun list for me. I guess I'm lucky that way.

What do you guys think about the ongoing arguments that occur about the game? How seriously do you take it?

Yeah, for some reason, a new codex coming out causes people to degrade into some of the most hyperbolic whining I think I've heard ever. I was actually just complaining about it in the pet peeves thread.

I don't complain about it myself. As I said I think some of it is entertaining. Some people take the game very seriously and actually get pissed about new codex. I know a guy that has everything you could ask for in life that blew up like a madman when the Space Wolves codex came out. He thought they would be unbeatable now and that the whole game was wrecked because of the codex. At the time he swore he was going to ebay all of his armies. I just can't understand that but that's just me.

Heh,

I admit to a little hyperbolic pre-whining on the new Necron codex we're supposed to be getting, because i love the fluff/playstyle of the curent crons, and it's going to change no matter what.

I'm not so much concerned about the army being nerfed as specific unitas being nerfed, with no good alternative to take their place, or really dumb rewrites of the existing rules/fluff tfor that unit that go completely agaisnt the established capabilities of the unit.


This has happened a few times, across several codexes, and i play for the fluff and the feel/look of a unit more than it's competitiveness. I'd be far more annoyed by a radical swing in fluff and description/role than in rules/stats.

Ascalam wrote:Heh,

I admit to a little hyperbolic pre-whining on the new Necron codex we're supposed to be getting, because i love the fluff/playstyle of the curent crons, and it's going to change no matter what.

I'm not so much concerned about the army being nerfed as specific unitas being nerfed, with no good alternative to take their place, or really dumb rewrites of the existing rules/fluff tfor that unit that go completely agaisnt the established capabilities of the unit.


This has happened a few times, across several codexes, and i play for the fluff and the feel/look of a unit more than it's competitiveness. I'd be far more annoyed by a radical swing in fluff and description/role than in rules/stats.

I agree with you on your points. The only reason I have bought as many of the codex as I have is because of the fluff. I like the universe and the whole mythos surrounding it. I am actually looking forward to seeing what they do with necrons. I am not a big fan now but I am curious to see if they will change my mind. With every new codex that comes out I look for something that piques my interest in the fluff and how that army interacts with my army of choice right now, Space Marines.

When a new codex comes out, people go "OMG new codex so broken totally over powered no-one is ever going to beat this". Then, half a year later when people have found out how to beat said army, everyone goes "cool army. But guard can beat it."

There's an easy way to fix this: remove yourself from the cycle.

Avoid threads about new books and play what you want to, to hell with what other people think.

Platuan4th wrote:There's an easy way to fix this: remove yourself from the cycle.

Avoid threads about new books and play what you want to, to hell with what other people think.

That's basically what I do. I just think it's an interesting subject to ponder, I mean the reactions to the new codex.

It's seen in every fandom. Anything that's new gets decried by the fans.

GW isn't helping this by introducing legitimately bad codex's recently though.

It just depends. Some newer codices aren't ridiculous by themselves, but when you try for example to play a new Dark Eldar army against the Chaos Daemons, it just isn't going to be pretty, ever. Heck, even the Tau have a horrible time dealing with Chaos Daemons.

It's a competitive thing. 40k is a horribly balanced game, simply because the way they release their codices. One codex is good in one edition, and then when they release a new edition, it's usually terrible against newer armies.

Radical wrote:It just depends. Some newer codices aren't ridiculous by themselves, but when you try for example to play a new Dark Eldar army against the Chaos Daemons, it just isn't going to be pretty, ever. Heck, even the Tau have a horrible time dealing with Chaos Daemons.

It's a competitive thing. 40k is a horribly balanced game, simply because the way they release their codices. One codex is good in one edition, and then when they release a new edition, it's usually terrible against newer armies.

Are you saying that Chaos Daemons are overpowered? I don't quite get you.

Every codex release makes a certain type of people think that codex creep is going down and the sky is falling. They start Chicken Little-ing around which leads to a bunch of people latching on and parroting the same things, regardless of whether or not they've played against what they think is overpowered. 40k is reasonably well balanced, the only codices that truly have a hard time competing in any capacity are about 10 years old, namely Tau and Necrons. The new Sisters codex doesn't look like it'll do too well either, but it's a stopgap anyway, and a glorified playtest codex at best.

The "OMGAWD NEW BOOK" syndrome really only seems to happen with the Marine books. I can't say I ever remember freakouts over Dark Eldar or Orks or whatnot.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:The "OMGAWD NEW BOOK" syndrome really only seems to happen with the Marine books. I can't say I ever remember freakouts over Dark Eldar or Orks or whatnot.

They're were in the people I play with. Not so much for Dark Eldar but when the Orks came out there sure were. It depends on your the group of gamers you hang with and what armies are important to them. I only know one guy that plays Dark Eldar and he sells product now.

Part of is also the slow and secret nature of how the Codexes come out.
90% of the time the ones who gripe the most are the ones that are/did not get "The New Codex".
Expecialy if it is a Marine Codex.
I think if they relesed a new Codex for every Xeno Armoy tomorow and then anounced that in six months there would be screams abour all of the Marine Love.

Personaly I love all of the Hype, becouse it easy to intimidate you opponent with the Flavor of the Month

Power creep isn't universal, though complaints about it are. Games Workshop, however, can't change the fact that they have in the past allowed rulebooks to go out (2nd edition Tyranids, for instance) with rules and units which were quite blatantly horribly overpowered and undercosted.

It having become apparent that the studio will release unbalanced armies in order to sell new models, it becomes habitual for players to seize upon anything new and nifty from a new codex and whine that it is too powerful or too cheap regardless of the objective truth.

Brother SRM wrote:

Radical wrote:It just depends. Some newer codices aren't ridiculous by themselves, but when you try for example to play a new Dark Eldar army against the Chaos Daemons, it just isn't going to be pretty, ever. Heck, even the Tau have a horrible time dealing with Chaos Daemons.

It's a competitive thing. 40k is a horribly balanced game, simply because the way they release their codices. One codex is good in one edition, and then when they release a new edition, it's usually terrible against newer armies.

Are you saying that Chaos Daemons are overpowered? I don't quite get you.

Every codex release makes a certain type of people think that codex creep is going down and the sky is falling. They start Chicken Little-ing around which leads to a bunch of people latching on and parroting the same things, regardless of whether or not they've played against what they think is overpowered. 40k is reasonably well balanced, the only codices that truly have a hard time competing in any capacity are about 10 years old, namely Tau and Necrons. The new Sisters codex doesn't look like it'll do too well either, but it's a stopgap anyway, and a glorified playtest codex at best.

I said that Dark Eldar absolutely sweep any Chaos Daemon army off the table, and that Tau have a horrible time with even the Chaos Daemons.

Codex creep is a reality. Competitive environments demonstrate this time after time again.

There is also the point that the new SOB codex has been a long-anticipated release and what they've produced, so far, is... less than exciting. Coupled with some other, arguably significant slights against this faction in other resources, it's going to cause some griping.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:The "OMGAWD NEW BOOK" syndrome really only seems to happen with the Marine books. I can't say I ever remember freakouts over Dark Eldar or Orks or whatnot.

Tyranids. Between WoM and Tervigon spam, there wasn't an army that was going to lose to it.

Needless to say, that opinion didn't last long.

So far I am happy with the SoB dex. Getting rid of the IG flavor they had added in the WH dex really made me happy. See I am a pure sisters player and love the fact that I only get the basic weapons. No I don't win very often with them but I love fielding them. Streamlining the acts of faith was nice but I wish they had done it more like combat drugs for the DE. Roll a d6 and every faithful unit gets X for the entire game, less confusing and works. However the way they broke oit down for each unit kinda works okay too.

When my DE came out I was estatic about it and still am. I took 2nd place at our local 'Ard boyz with my DE and didn't even really have a competitive list, just a basic list with Baron Sathonox as my HQ. Don't think its over powering but a well balanced dex myself.

My BA book is nice but does have a cheese in it which alot players exploit. That is why GW put these units or rules in the books to help balance them (yeah right).