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Hey guys,
I am considering new armies and I have been interested in DE since...they are NOTHING like my daemon army which I have been playing competitively with. I refuse to play GK/SW/BA/DA/BT/MEQ armies because I am too much of a devils advocate, and I find them boring. I would like to hear your guys opinons of the units I plan on using in the DE list if I start the army.

HQ options are Baron, or baron and Archon with huskblade/shadow field with a court in a venom. Or drazhar because he is so badass.

Elite- Either one squad of incubi( with drazhar)
then 2 squads of trueborn with dark lances, 5 man squads, 2 dark lances, in raiders with FF

Troop-
6 warrior squads with either a blaster, or 10 man squads with a dark lance, in raiders with FF
So all raiders on troops and elite.

Fast-
3 squads of scourges. 5 man each, one with 2 dark lances, one with heat lances for getting close, 1 with haywire for monoliths. (or I might switch it to 2 with haywire) The weapons here are up for debate, but scourges seem very very underrated.

Heavy-
3 razorwings, all with either 2 dark lances+ 1 necro missile, 3 mono
OR
3 razors with all disen cannons with splinter cannon, and same missile config

I know it doesnt fit the normal venom spam with ravagers.

I just love razorwings, plus they can put out either absurd anti infantry with disen cannons and 4 large blasts. Also 9 ravagers will prove good antitank, along with 4-6 dark lances from my elites, and either 6 blasters or 6 more dark lances from troop, and more anti tank from my fast attack.

Just curious if its viable from a Dark eldar players perspective.


(fixed ravagers into raiders..my bad)

I don't really like the idea of disintegrator razorwings. I prefer this build: splinter cannon, 2x dark lance, 4 missles (combination of shatterfield and monosycthe, as points allow) and FF if points allow. The reason why I don't give up the DLs is you don't get enough of the things in the DE list, and having instant death weapons even when you are firing at infantry is a good thing. It also gives your fighter a purpose after using its missile volley, hunting tanks, MCs, ICs, or even infantry squads. That and I really don't like dissies with as much cover there is these days (and its not like DE don't already have plenty of anti infantry in every unit, anti tank is harder to come by).

I would avoid Drahzar more than Razorwings. I actually think Razorwings are really good and are viable, and your list is trying to work functionally with them. I do agree that Lances on them are really good though - you may want to try some lances and some dissies to see where the right balance is fir you.

I'm all for lists that go against the venom and trueblaster spam, but I can see a few ways to optimize this list.

I'll start with the HQ. I would not take the baron. He's more for hellion based armies, and you really need to build around hellions to make him viable. Duke Sliscus, on the other hand would compliment your army fantastically. You'd want to free up a squad for him to join though, preferably one with a lot of anti-infantry firepower to take advantage of his poisoned weapon special rule. You'd be wasting his contraband rule by not taking wyches, but that's an acceptable price to pay for a unit of shardcarbine toting trueborn that wound on 3's and deep strike shenanigans. Alternatively, Lady Malys is a cheaper HQ that would allow you to do some deployment shenanigans, and she's not too shabby in close combat herself. I wouldn't recommend Drazhar on account of the fact that he does not have an invulnerable save, making him very vulnerable to hidden power weapons.

If you're going to take sniper trueborn squads though, you really don't need to take a transport, or more than 3 trueborn. Yes, 5 trueborn have a couple of ablative wounds, but you shouldn't pay that much for just some extra hits. As for transports, since Dark Lances are heavy, you want sniper trueborn squads to sit back in cover. Unless you plan on just using their raider as a separate gun-platform and not having them ride in it, it's totally pointless. The maneuverability afforded by the transport would negate their heavy firepower.

Warrior squads, I prefer to take them with a splinter cannon and blaster. Same cost as a dark lance, but that's totally a preference thing.

Scourges really shine when armed with blasters or haywire blasters. Dark Lances are heavy weapons, and Scourges are not relentless. Again, mobility and heavy firepower coming into conflict with one another. Heat lances... Some people swear by them. I don't care for them on scourges. You have to get too close, and you don't have the same survivability tools that a Reaver does to avoid getting nuked. With the rest of your list, I would run your Scourges with two haywire blasters in every squad to stun lock dangerous tanks while your raiders, sniper trueborn, and warriors open up the tin cans at their leisure.

As for the razorwings, I'll echo the dark lances. It really adds to their flexibility and expands their role so that they can engage armor and monstrous creatures in addition to infantry. One question though; why only one necrotoxin missile? Is it a points issue? In that case, why not just save your points and keep the monoscythe missiles? You shouldn't be firing missiles at anything with toughness 5 or better unless there is literally nothing else to target. Those large blast missiles shine at breaking up hordes, which are usually MEQ or (more commonly) GEQ, both of which are wounded on 2's by the missile, and in the case of GEQ, are ID'd. If you really want to upgrade the missiles, I'd recommend Shatterfields. I find they work wonders against MEQ, because they wound on rerollable 2's. Yes, the MEQs get their armor save, but they would have gotten that anyways, and I inflict more wounds by forcing them to take more saves.

HQ options are Baron, or baron and Archon with huskblade/shadow field with a court in a venom. Or drazhar because he is so badass.

I think that a Succubus or Archon would work best here. No court because they are terrible. No Drazhar because he is too many points and terrible. The Baron doesn't really synergize with the list.

Elite- Either one squad of incubi( with drazhar)
then 2 squads of trueborn with dark lances, 5 man squads, 2 dark lances, in raiders with FF

7 Incubi in a Raider with FF (maybe advanced aethersails as well) to go with your killy HQ isn't bad. The Trueborn could drop to 3 with 2 lances and save some points. I don't mind the empty Raiders. Maybe give them prows to ram/shock.

Troop-
6 warrior squads with either a blaster, or 10 man squads with a dark lance, in raiders with FF
So all raiders on troops and elite.

It depends on what you want to do. 5 man with Blaster are more mobile. 10 would likely sit back and camp objectives.

Fast-
3 squads of scourges. 5 man each, one with 2 dark lances, one with heat lances for getting close, 1 with haywire for monoliths. (or I might switch it to 2 with haywire) The weapons here are up for debate, but scourges seem very very underrated.

Dark Lances are a waste. I personally don't like Scourges. They cost too many points for a meh unit. Haywire Blasters have been boned because of GK.

Heavy-
3 razorwings, all with either 2 dark lances+ 1 necro missile, 3 mono
OR
3 razors with all disen cannons with splinter cannon, and same missile config

Based on the fact that you would have lots of shooting elsewhere this might work.

Clauss wrote:Hey guys,
I am considering new armies and I have been interested in DE since...they are NOTHING like my daemon army which I have been playing competitively with. I refuse to play GK/SW/BA/DA/BT/MEQ armies because I am too much of a devils advocate, and I find them boring. I would like to hear your guys opinons of the units I plan on using in the DE list if I start the army.

HQ options are Baron, or baron and Archon with huskblade/shadow field with a court in a venom. Or drazhar because he is so badass.

Elite- Either one squad of incubi( with drazhar)
then 2 squads of trueborn with dark lances, 5 man squads, 2 dark lances, in raiders with FF

Troop-
6 warrior squads with either a blaster, or 10 man squads with a dark lance, in raiders with FF
So all raiders on troops and elite.

Fast-
3 squads of scourges. 5 man each, one with 2 dark lances, one with heat lances for getting close, 1 with haywire for monoliths. (or I might switch it to 2 with haywire) The weapons here are up for debate, but scourges seem very very underrated.

Heavy-
3 razorwings, all with either 2 dark lances+ 1 necro missile, 3 mono
OR
3 razors with all disen cannons with splinter cannon, and same missile config

I know it doesnt fit the normal venom spam with ravagers.

I just love razorwings, plus they can put out either absurd anti infantry with disen cannons and 4 large blasts. Also 9 ravagers will prove good antitank, along with 4-6 dark lances from my elites, and either 6 blasters or 6 more dark lances from troop, and more anti tank from my fast attack.

Just curious if its viable from a Dark eldar players perspective.


(fixed ravagers into raiders..my bad)

Few things:
1) Need more CC punch; and something that can take down blessed hull BT's. One squad o' wyches with haywires should do ya.
2) Warriors are good with a blaster in each, but dunno about taking raiders over venoms
3) Two squads o' incubi is better than one!
4) Haemis for FnP on the incubi, and an Archon with your config would work best here
5) Scourges rock; but ONLY take haywire blasters. That way you can move them around and use their mobility (lances they'd have to stay static)
6) I prefer Voidravens over Razors... but I think they're too expensive for AV 10/11 fliers

Okay guys. Thank you for all the responses and help. All your points and advice I have considered and I read Thors tactica to see what the dark horses of the army were(which I want)

I believe I want my list to look like this:

Archon- huskblade, soul trap, shadow field (haywire or combat drugs?)
1 haemonclus w shattershard(or dark gate for monoliths/blessed hull) + liqifier

3 incubi- in a venom+ extra SC (archon goes here, along with haemonclus)
I am debating upgrading one to klaivex and giving demiklaives

4 trueborn+ 4 blasters in venom + extra SC
4 trueborn+ 4 blasters in venom+ extra SC

5 warriors+blaster in raider+FF
5 warriors+blaster in raider+FF
5 warriors+blaster in raider+FF
5 warriors+blaster in raider+FF
5 warriors+blaster in raider+FF
5 warriors+blaster in raider+FF

5 scourges+ 2 haywire blasters
5 scourges+ 2 haywire blasters
5 scourges+ 2 heat lances( or 2 dark lances)

Razorwing+ FF+ 1 necrotoxin
Razorwing+ FF+ 1 necrotoxin
Razorwing+ FF+ 1 necrotoxin


Opinions now?
I have 6 raiders, plus 3 venoms, plus 3 razorwings. Not as many dark lances as possible, and not as many venoms as people run. But I believe razorwings missiles will make up for lack of venoms, the raiders will make up for the 3 lost dark lances in heavy support. Scourges can either pop tanks/or just glance them. Or unleash a fair amount of poison when I run out of tanks, the incubi+archon should be able to do some absurd damage on the charge. Or just tie something up, while dealing enough damage to it.

First I'd give the Archon Drugs. Reroll hits, extra attacks, pain token are pretty good and +1 S could save you with the Huskblade. One haywire won't cut it. I actually see some good potential here.
Don't upgrade to klaivex. If you have the points get another body. I also would keep the Razorwings' missile stock or get the ones that allow a reroll. You should wound almost everything on a 2+ anyway so don't pay for that.
I'm also not a fan of Haywire Blasters as all they will do is stun or shake, hardly ever destroy. I'd rather take HL on my scourges and run them through a portal. I do have on squad with DL as it is a sniper squad that can move faster if needed. I really want to see how this list does.

God I love people that respond quickly. ( that would be you Akroma)
Okay so drugs, got it. Will add that. I will drop the haywire I guess, since if they are in melee with a walker, its GG anyway. I guess the chance of 1/6 to hit, then 1/6 in penetrade, then 1/3 to do anything leaves me fethed if in melee with something that needs to get haywire hit. No haywire, just thought it would be safe.
I guess the klaivex+ demikliaves is a waste of points for what it adds. I only have 3 because the venom they are in will hold them+archon+haemonclus. The haemonclus will give them the pain token? Right?
Well regarding the missiles, the posion ones I want just so I can pin stuff if I need to. Which is a rare tactic people use anymore which i find to be underrated.
Hmm, haywire blasters do not have the possibility to always destroy, but they can hurt monoliths/blessed hull raider which is what I need. Maybe one squad with haywire, one squad with lances, one squad with heat lances.

Honestly I'd give the Haemonculus to the DL Scourges, or up the transport to a Raider. If you are worried about points you technically can leave it stock and turbo boost turn 1, just realise that squad will have a target on it. Yes the Haemonculus will give the squad a pain token and they can disembark and take it with them.
As for pinning the biggest problem is that so many squads have fearless or a high leadership. 7 is the average of 2d6 and most squads are 8 or more. If you are playing against necrons don't shoot the monolith. Ignore it. You should go for phase out. If the DS it then use the speed of the DE to never let it into the game again. It has a max of a 30" threat range. I don't know of any BT player who uses blessed hull. If so then that is a tailored list to beat DE. But that thing will be a point sink.

I'm not a fan of Huskblades, they're too expensive for a 35 point power weapon. The Incubi have S4-5( depending if your Klaivex has demiklaives or not) have power weapons, let them strike after your Archon hits first. I'm running my Archon with a venom blade (5 points, wounds on a 2+), blast pistol, combat drugs, Shadowfield and phantasm grenade launcher. He rides with 5 Incubi and a Klaivex w/Bloodstone in a Raider. That way he's surrounded by 3+ saves, strikes before the Klaivex and gives the unit grenades. Plus a BS7 Darklight weapon.

With your Haemonculus in the unit, it becomes rather death starish. Almost too effective (not to mention expensive).

I would like to see a list that can go toe to toe with crow. That damn template weapon is insane. It kills everybody before the fight even starts and the damn purifiers have it also.

I am quite a fan of the huskblade as its the only thing in the army that can cause instant death to MCs and HQs that I will have trouble shooting down. A tactical assault with incubi and the archon should kill the MC or IC before he strikes, while the incubi throw a few wounds if possible on the squad to preserve the life of the archon. I may give him a blast pistol to wreck some vehicles, the grenade laucher is very possible. He just becomes very expensive after I add a 15 pt pistol and a 25pt grenade pack.
Well the unit isnt every expensive at all for a deathstar, 3 incubi at 22 pts each, archon(huskblade, drugs, shadow field, soul trap) is 145 points, haemonclus would probably just be equipped with a shattershard and a venomblade which is 70 points. All together they would be 145+ 70+ 66 which totals to 281, and the 70 point haemonclus is sitting in the transport and just throwing the shattershard on stuff then running away. So the melee aspect is 211 points for a IC assassinating squad. Or just clearing a troop choice off the board. I think it is quite a sexy uint. Hell, I might run two of them and one squad of trueborn. 2 Archons, 2 four man incubi squads. Then all gunline Dark eldar, could be effective since I have incubi and archons to counter assault.

baron, which template weapons? shattershard? Then you mention purifiers which would point at cleansing flame, which isnt a template. I am confused...

Clauss wrote:I am quite a fan of the huskblade as its the only thing in the army that can cause instant death to MCs and HQs that I will have trouble shooting down. A tactical assault with incubi and the archon should kill the MC or IC before he strikes, while the incubi throw a few wounds if possible on the squad to preserve the life of the archon. I may give him a blast pistol to wreck some vehicles, the grenade laucher is very possible. He just becomes very expensive after I add a 15 pt pistol and a 25pt grenade pack.
Well the unit isnt every expensive at all for a deathstar, 3 incubi at 22 pts each, archon(huskblade, drugs, shadow field, soul trap) is 145 points, haemonclus would probably just be equipped with a shattershard and a venomblade which is 70 points. All together they would be 145+ 70+ 66 which totals to 281, and the 70 point haemonclus is sitting in the transport and just throwing the shattershard on stuff then running away. So the melee aspect is 211 points for a IC assassinating squad. Or just clearing a troop choice off the board. I think it is quite a sexy uint. Hell, I might run two of them and one squad of trueborn. 2 Archons, 2 four man incubi squads. Then all gunline Dark eldar, could be effective since I have incubi and archons to counter assault.

baron, which template weapons? shattershard? Then you mention purifiers which would point at cleansing flame, which isnt a template. I am confused...

The issue with your "death star" is it has absolutely no staying power. Three blood angel marines (basically) with an HQ and a Haemi (which normally splits off) is a HUGE points sink for very little return.

I'd recommend if you want to go the Death Star route do this:
8x Incubi - 176 pts
Archon - Drugs, Field, Huskblade, Soul Trap - like 150ish pts
Haemi - Barebones - 50 pts

Another death star that I LOVE and will kick the hell out of anything it comes up against is:
7x Bloodbrides - 2x shardnet/impalers, Agonizer, Haywires - Dunno points total (no dex on me atm)
Archon - Whatever weapon you wish, drugs, clone field
Haemi - barebones

The beauty of the second deathstar is: all opponents in BTB with your archon will have -2 attacks. This means MOST things that threaten him will have 1-2 attacks at most. Clonefield means you ignore up to 2 attacks on average. This means you have little to no fear of being gibbed by a hidden fist if done right; plus guys like Mephiston hit on 4's and would on 2's with 3 attacks most of the time; meaning you can be practically immune while in CC!

As to your list:
- Needs a squad of wyches... seriously; you want a 9 strong haywire squad to tie up dreadnaughts and take down things like Monoliths
- Seriously, beef up the incubi or cut them
- Blaster venoms are great, I'd recommend cutting em down to 3 dudes (cheaper, and you rarely need more than 3)
- Your base troops are interesting... try em out
- Only use 2 haywire scourge groups and use the extra points for more missiles
- Implosion missiles are AWEEEEESOMMMMEEEEEE on razors. You can pick off scary IC's that may threaten you. I'd recommend more than 1 necro as well; I know its your anti-horde, but ya need more of em!

If you want a deathstar, I suggest looking at beasts. They allow for not only wound allocation shenanigans, but also they can take a load of hits.

Bloodbrides can also hit decently hard and take hits back decently.

To ZId and Thehod, I am not trying to create a deathstar unit that will demolish anything it touches. If i wanted that I would use a raider, and fill it with all types of IC goodness with tons of incubi, or mass beastmasters with baron.
I am using the archon+incubi as a counter assault and precision unit. They will snipe out any IC they go for, or just do enough damage that I can finish with shooting. They are not there to take on a paladin unit with draigo.

Regarding the main points Zid,
I really kinda wanna go all warriors :/ I know wyches are great since 4++ in melee, along with haywires they can destroy vehicles. But I am trying not to use any for fluff purposes along with the fact I just dont like them. beefing up incubi to 4 if in venom since I want to keep it cheap.
I may drop them to 3, depending on points.
Why do you find my troops so interesting? they are simple anti tank transports, with a special weapon to pop tanks. Once tanks are popped, I have a bunch of rapid fire posion, I think the troops make sense.
Implosion? Only woid raven bombers can take them. Sadly I cant on razorwings, otherwise I would! If I can fit 2 necro I will. Thanks for advice

The hod, I honestly just dont want to use beasts because everyone uses them, i am trying to field a DE force that doesnt use the same exact stuff that everyone uses. I also dont want to use bloodbrides because they are wyches, and I just kinda wanna use warriors and scourges only.

Clauss wrote:To ZId and Thehod, I am not trying to create a deathstar unit that will demolish anything it touches. If i wanted that I would use a raider, and fill it with all types of IC goodness with tons of incubi, or mass beastmasters with baron.
I am using the archon+incubi as a counter assault and precision unit. They will snipe out any IC they go for, or just do enough damage that I can finish with shooting. They are not there to take on a paladin unit with draigo.

Regarding the main points Zid,
I really kinda wanna go all warriors :/ I know wyches are great since 4++ in melee, along with haywires they can destroy vehicles. But I am trying not to use any for fluff purposes along with the fact I just dont like them. beefing up incubi to 4 if in venom since I want to keep it cheap.
I may drop them to 3, depending on points.
Why do you find my troops so interesting? they are simple anti tank transports, with a special weapon to pop tanks. Once tanks are popped, I have a bunch of rapid fire posion, I think the troops make sense.
Implosion? Only woid raven bombers can take them. Sadly I cant on razorwings, otherwise I would! If I can fit 2 necro I will. Thanks for advice

The hod, I honestly just dont want to use beasts because everyone uses them, i am trying to field a DE force that doesnt use the same exact stuff that everyone uses. I also dont want to use bloodbrides because they are wyches, and I just kinda wanna use warriors and scourges only.

My bad, like I said, didn't have the dex next to me when I posted

So your whole goal is to use a list sort of like a competitive list, but not really. I can respect that. The issue with your Incubi is they WON"T kill everything they touch; your plan hinges on 9 str 4 PW attacks (without rerolls or anything) combined with 6 str 3 (or possibly 4 with drugs pending) attacks that instagib if they get through... Thats a lot to bank on! Yes, they might kill half a marine squad on average. But they won't really live after they kill whatever it is. A squad of 4 (or 5) T3 guys even with a 3+/FnP are no better than typical BA marines, but they'll take more wounds from bolters and things so massed wounds will bring them down easier. A 2++ can't be relied too heavily on; I can't tell you how many times my first roll on my Archon has been a 1...

Your trrops are interesting because both the troops and the transports are anti-tank; which is unusual. Normally you'd combine anti-troop transports with anti-tank units, or vice versa. In all actuality you have about equal AT to most DE lists; but more MSU's than most lists. I will say do NOT put dark lances on your warriors, trueborn, or scourges. This will keep them static, and in most games you will want to move. remember, your riding AV 10 kites... bolters and krootguns can bring them down! You either want to have a cover save, or be in a position to put the hurt down, not be sitting back plucking away. DE have decent ranged shooting, but if you try and do a firefight against say... IG, your bound to lose just due to sure firepower. Ask any DE player with a decent amount of games under their belts; its amazing how many shots it can take to bring down even a rhino!

This is just stuff from my perspective; it could work, but it could not... I say proxy and try em out