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Are Tyranids (or, the Tyranid, when speaking of the hive mind) ethical? Is it ethical for them (it?) to ensure their (its?) survival at the expense of humanity?

My understanding is that, without consistent planetary exploitation, the Tyranid would die. If so, I posit that it is ethical, under these circumstances, to strip planets for their biological matter.

No, they have a practice of extreme gluttony. As with anything in nature, there is a natural cap of things that can inhabit a certain area, over reaching that cap will lead to some dying due to lack of food/water/space. What the Tyranids do is completely strip planets down before moving onto the next as they refuse to accept the population cap, much in the same way that humans do nowadays by finding cures for diseases and adjusting the planetary lifestyle to meet our needs. For the moment we are ok as we've yet to hit the new cap that we have created for ourselves, but once we do we will need to expand to other planets, like the Tyranids, in order to keep everyone alive

They're basically just a swarm of locusts, it's like asking if locusts are ethical. The Tyranids don't even understand such concepts as ethics and the mass genocide they commit is certainly not ethical in any sense.

No, nor do they have even a hint of etiquette.

Soladrin wrote:No, nor do they have even a hint of etiquette.

Never once have I seen one using it's salad fork.

warpgrenade wrote:Are Tyranids (or, the Tyranid, when speaking of the hive mind) ethical? Is it ethical for them (it?) to ensure their (its?) survival at the expense of humanity?

My understanding is that, without consistent planetary exploitation, the Tyranid would die. If so, I posit that it is ethical, under these circumstances, to strip planets for their biological matter.

I disagree.
Tyranids can simply remake themselves giving them effective immortality, with the proper farming practices they could easily survive on a few worlds.
Instead they choose the easy was and kil everyone and eat them.
Very rude and not very ethical.

purplefood wrote:

warpgrenade wrote:Are Tyranids (or, the Tyranid, when speaking of the hive mind) ethical? Is it ethical for them (it?) to ensure their (its?) survival at the expense of humanity?

My understanding is that, without consistent planetary exploitation, the Tyranid would die. If so, I posit that it is ethical, under these circumstances, to strip planets for their biological matter.

I disagree.
Tyranids can simply remake themselves giving them effective immortality, with the proper farming practices they could easily survive on a few worlds.
Instead they choose the easy was and kil everyone and eat them.
Very rude and not very ethical.

Yes they do not care for there own kind (send thousands to die to waste enemies ammo) or any other species there is only them and prey.

FlammingGaunt wrote:

purplefood wrote:

warpgrenade wrote:Are Tyranids (or, the Tyranid, when speaking of the hive mind) ethical? Is it ethical for them (it?) to ensure their (its?) survival at the expense of humanity?

My understanding is that, without consistent planetary exploitation, the Tyranid would die. If so, I posit that it is ethical, under these circumstances, to strip planets for their biological matter.

I disagree.
Tyranids can simply remake themselves giving them effective immortality, with the proper farming practices they could easily survive on a few worlds.
Instead they choose the easy was and kil everyone and eat them.
Very rude and not very ethical.

Yes they do not care for there own kind (send thousands to die to waste enemies ammo) or any other species there is only them and prey.

It's racism is what it is!!!!!

It depends on if you look at the tyrandis as a race or an entity. certainly if you look at them as a race, they are ethical, there is no such thing as ethics in the race to survive. There should be no grudging each little guy his survival.

if an entity. than it has the mental capacity to understand genocide and all that jazz. So it must be able to control itself and choose not too. Though this might be giving the hive mind too much credit. If it is simply an urge or more overwhelming desire for tyranids that organizes as well as drives. Than ethics are not involved, its like cat killing mice on a grand scale.

For some reason Tyranid get a pass from a lot of people probably because they are so inhuman. Synapse creatures and the hive mind are just as sentient as any human. They are not animals. In fact the hive mind is much more aware of the universe than any human.

They don't care where they get the food from, just that there's enough of it and they can have more. Tyranids don't give a damm for anyone, just that they eat, constantly over and over again. They are just as Ethical as any other race in 40k. It's them or us.

I have a Hive Mind conspiracy theory.

I think that the Hive Mind is mega Nidzilla,and he sends his forces out to absorb all biomatter,so that at the end of consuming all the biomatter in all the Galaxies,he will bcome the most powerful being ever.The reason is that he is an outcast C'tan.He wants to kill the Chaos Gods,and will team up with the Nightbringer and Deciever to do sdo,then they are going to challenge the Chaos gods to battle,one at a time,starting with Slaanesh.The Nightbringerer will focus on the actual fighting,with the Deciever drifting about and avoiding attacks,while the Hive Mind uses the Shadow to prevent Daemons appearing,and screwing with the connection between Slaanesh and the wwarp,so when the Deciever kills him,they can feast on his energy.With the extra energy,they will defeat Nurgle,amnd the Tzeentch,and finally Khorne,before channelling the powersd they have absorbed to destroy the warp,because they hate it that much.

Yes they're as ethical as most other races. Just like humans, orks and tau they consume resources to make more of themselves so that they may expand further abroad. That's life in general.

Deadshot wrote:I have a Hive Mind conspiracy theory.

I think that the Hive Mind is mega Nidzilla,and he sends his forces out to absorb all biomatter,so that at the end of consuming all the biomatter in all the Galaxies,he will bcome the most powerful being ever.The reason is that he is an outcast C'tan.He wants to kill the Chaos Gods,and will team up with the Nightbringer and Deciever to do sdo,then they are going to challenge the Chaos gods to battle,one at a time,starting with Slaanesh.The Nightbringerer will focus on the actual fighting,with the Deciever drifting about and avoiding attacks,while the Hive Mind uses the Shadow to prevent Daemons appearing,and screwing with the connection between Slaanesh and the wwarp,so when the Deciever kills him,they can feast on his energy.With the extra energy,they will defeat Nurgle,amnd the Tzeentch,and finally Khorne,before channelling the powersd they have absorbed to destroy the warp,because they hate it that much.

I'm not going to argue with your theory about the Hive Mind being a C'tan that's your opinion, but they wouldn't do so in actual combat as the four can't come into the materium and C'tan can't go to the warp. They would separate the warp from the materium completely like with pylons.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes they're as ethical as most other races. Just like humans, orks and tau they consume resources to make more of themselves so that they may expand further abroad. That's life in general.

Humans and tau dotn going killing everything in their path just too expand.
Is it it ethical for a country full of starving people to invade evrywhere around them, killing anyone they come by?

Jollydevil wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes they're as ethical as most other races. Just like humans, orks and tau they consume resources to make more of themselves so that they may expand further abroad. That's life in general.

Humans and tau dotn going killing everything in their path just too expand.
Is it it ethical for a country full of starving people to invade evrywhere around them, killing anyone they come by?

Well maybe Tau don't but Imperials do. There just not as efficient at it.

The Tyranids and their Hive Mind are intelligent, but their intelligence is bound to a single purpose; Hunger.

They are neither ethical nor unethical, they simply are.

purplefood wrote:

warpgrenade wrote:Are Tyranids (or, the Tyranid, when speaking of the hive mind) ethical? Is it ethical for them (it?) to ensure their (its?) survival at the expense of humanity?

My understanding is that, without consistent planetary exploitation, the Tyranid would die. If so, I posit that it is ethical, under these circumstances, to strip planets for their biological matter.

I disagree.
Tyranids can simply remake themselves giving them effective immortality, with the proper farming practices they could easily survive on a few worlds.
Instead they choose the easy was and kil everyone and eat them.
Very rude and not very ethical.

Immortality is not dying in the first place, not being reborn. Not only that, only the Swarmlord, a very recent addition, gets reborn with it's memories intact. Everything else, when it's dead, it's dead. They just melt it down and make another new one.

However, Tyranids are at least not discriminatory. Everyone has equal right to be melted down and used to make a spore, or as a swarm lord.

-Loki- wrote:Immortality is not dying in the first place, not being reborn. Not only that, only the Swarmlord, a very recent addition, gets reborn with it's memories intact. Everything else, when it's dead, it's dead. They just melt it down and make another new one.

However, Tyranids are at least not discriminatory. Everyone has equal right to be melted down and used to make a spore, or as a swarm lord.

Actually, all Hive Tyrants have their memories restored, the Swarmlord is just the oldest and most experienced Hive Tyrant.

Deadshot wrote:I have a Hive Mind conspiracy theory.

I think that the Hive Mind is mega Nidzilla,and he sends his forces out to absorb all biomatter,so that at the end of consuming all the biomatter in all the Galaxies,he will bcome the most powerful being ever.The reason is that he is an outcast C'tan.He wants to kill the Chaos Gods,and will team up with the Nightbringer and Deciever to do sdo,then they are going to challenge the Chaos gods to battle,one at a time,starting with Slaanesh.The Nightbringerer will focus on the actual fighting,with the Deciever drifting about and avoiding attacks,while the Hive Mind uses the Shadow to prevent Daemons appearing,and screwing with the connection between Slaanesh and the wwarp,so when the Deciever kills him,they can feast on his energy.With the extra energy,they will defeat Nurgle,amnd the Tzeentch,and finally Khorne,before channelling the powersd they have absorbed to destroy the warp,because they hate it that much.

Is this serious? If it is, you spend to much time thinking abot fluff.

Personally, I think the Tyranids, being a Hive Mind, is a massive organism spread over a vast area. It seems to operate much like our own bodies at the cellular level. Makes me wonder if the hyper consciousness of the entire organism even knows that it's devouring other sentient species. Or, perhaps, it will achieve conciousness after eating its fill of our species. Certainly an interesting twist on things.

Heck, even the C'Tan were so large and diffuse that it took the Necrons a long time to realize they were sentient and then contact them. The C'tan weren't even aware of the Necrons before then. This is how I understand it anyway.

Maybe the Tyranids as an intellect will suddenly realize what it's doing and get a bad case of guilt and commit suicide.

Tyranids? Tyranids. wrote:

Deadshot wrote:I have a Hive Mind conspiracy theory.

I think that the Hive Mind is mega Nidzilla,and he sends his forces out to absorb all biomatter,so that at the end of consuming all the biomatter in all the Galaxies,he will bcome the most powerful being ever.The reason is that he is an outcast C'tan.He wants to kill the Chaos Gods,and will team up with the Nightbringer and Deciever to do sdo,then they are going to challenge the Chaos gods to battle,one at a time,starting with Slaanesh.The Nightbringerer will focus on the actual fighting,with the Deciever drifting about and avoiding attacks,while the Hive Mind uses the Shadow to prevent Daemons appearing,and screwing with the connection between Slaanesh and the wwarp,so when the Deciever kills him,they can feast on his energy.With the extra energy,they will defeat Nurgle,amnd the Tzeentch,and finally Khorne,before channelling the powersd they have absorbed to destroy the warp,because they hate it that much.

Is this serious? If it is, you spend to much time thinking abot fluff.

Na. If youve never had some crazy theory about 40K, you spend too little time thinking about fluff.

Do you as a human feel guilty or unethical about destroying whole colonies of bacteria and other microbes when you eat your meal? You kill literally thousands upon thousands of them, maybe millions. Do you feel guilty over the deaths of the cells in your mouth, stomach, and intestines that die as a result of the eating and digestion process?

The same applies to the Hive Mind, which as described by GW, is a macro-organism comprising all the Tyranid fleets. The Tyranids ARE its body, and the deaths of individual Tyranids are no more significant than the deaths of individual cells in our own bodies. The Hive Mind probably sees no reason to justify its actions (assuming it cares about such a concept) any more than you feel you have to justify your actions to the bacteria on your hamburger.

It is quite possible that the Hive Mind as such a vast entity, is incapable of comprehending other entities as truly other entities unless they are of similar scale and power. By analogy, we don't negotiate or treat with bacteria as if they were "persons" in the legal sense. We only recognize as "persons" other humans (i.e. entities of similar scale and power to ourselves).

Iracundus wrote:Do you as a human feel guilty or unethical about destroying whole colonies of bacteria and other microbes when you eat your meal?

I do now.

One might also raise the same question about the Necrons.



but when you think about it, Life is a renewable resource(if you belive the theory of Evolution)


Nids or Crons exterminate/eat all life from an area of space. after a few billion years, life re-evolves and the cycle continues.


the Nids will just travel around the universe, munching on Galaxies as they go. eventually, after untold billions of millenia, coming back to where they started, where life will have re-emerged.

the cycle continues until every last star(the source of all energy) has been extinguished and the universe consists of nothing except dead husks of rock and massive gas clouds all at a uniform temprature.


then and only then, will life come to a stop and there will be nothing but the lukewarm void of space. Kinda depressing aint it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Basically, Ethics requires a higher purpose.

Life, and indeed the universe, is self destructive.

All life exists, and sustains its existance, at the expense of other life. Animals eat other animals, Animals also eat plants. Plants choak each other out and compete for space with other plants, even sometimes going so far as to exude toxis substances to keep other plants or animals away.

If a Vegetarian says he/she is one because its ethical, its a lie. all life exists at the expense of other life. eating a plant isn't any better then eating an animal.



Ethics requires a standard to be set by a higher power or purpose, like God. Without a purpose or higher power, Ethics can't exist. Ethics requires a standard, an absolute set of rules that cannot be questioned.

Tyranids, all they have is the need to feed. there is no higher purpose besides eating and sustaining itself.


the Necrons have a purpose. they harvest Souls to feed their gods, Ethics to them will be anything that meets and strives towards that goal.

Grey Templar wrote:
Nids will just travel around the universe, munching on Galaxies as they go. eventually, after untold billions of millenia, coming back to where they started, where life will have re-emerged.

the cycle continues until every last star(the source of all energy) has been extinguished and the universe consists of nothing except dead husks of rock and massive gas clouds all at a uniform temprature.

Except for eating star thats what the Nids do. Leave nothing except dead hushs of rocks. They leave NO biomass behind, so life will never return to the worlds they eat.

As for being ethical. Is it unethical to walk on a ant on the way to the store for food. The Hivemind see us as we see pest, something to crush if it feels are bite or ignore until it ready to eat.

You know that rock breaks down into dirt?

they whole theory of how life evolved basically involves Water vapor released from volcanic activity escaped into the atmosphere, then a water cycle was started. the water then broke down the rock of the planet into soil, and then life evolved amoung the muddy pools.

a planet that was completely stripped down to the bed rock could still have life return in time so long as it still had a molten core. a planet who's core had cooled would be dead for good.

Grey Templar wrote:the Necrons have a purpose. they harvest Souls to feed their gods, Ethics to them will be anything that meets and strives towards that goal.

Minor Necron fan butthurt semantics tidbit:

The C'tan do not eat souls, they have no power over them. It's the matter, the atomic particles making up their bodies and the electromagnetism leaking from life that they hunger for, souls reside in the Warp, the C'tan's hunger is for purely material things.

The problem with the Necrons and Tyranids is that their methods aren't ethical.

You can argue that the Crusades were ethical, because they were staged with a higher standard and a purpose. However, their methods were terribly violent, and hardly anyone looks back on the Crusades as an ethical act.

I suppose that it'd depend on your definition of ethical. By standard "human" ethics, yeah, they're actions are hardly ethical. But death as a cycle of life is still a valid argument, and I suppose the question revolves around whether killing can be ethical.

Grey Templar wrote:You know that rock breaks down into dirt?

they whole theory of how life evolved basically involves Water vapor released from volcanic activity escaped into the atmosphere, then a water cycle was started. the water then broke down the rock of the planet into soil, and then life evolved amoung the muddy pools.

a planet that was completely stripped down to the bed rock could still have life return in time so long as it still had a molten core. a planet who's core had cooled would be dead for good.

No atmosphere (the Nids take it), no way for the water to from on the planet. In fact the Nids collect the planets water mass as well. Again there is NO way for life to start again.