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At what point does a boy become a nob in ork society? I have always considered that once it is the size and strength of a marine it is called a nob. Of course that does not mean all Nobs are the size and strength of marines, as orks grow fast.

How big is the average nob and the average boy, compared to other things in 40K?

Also is it the Orks that name a Nob, or is it the Imperium?

The avarage nob towers over a marine.

The problem here however is, there have has been specifics about their height.

I know there are orks around that are over 12 feet and would make even SM's squeemish. Though arguably these are as rare as it gets.

Latest ork Codex:

"At the climax of Warlord Thogza's decades-long Waaagh! into the Duros sector, the Ork veterans were reputed to reaca size almost twice as tall as a man"

I've always wanted to write my own rules for an army made entirely of these densely populated ork worlds where the average boy is nob sized in normal society.
not unfair rules you see. but it would be fun if every unit had nob stats and points.

A boy becomes a nob when he kills a nob and makes himself in charge. Thats the only way for anyone in an ork society to go up in rank. The size isn't the only thing that makes a nob they get their size from constant fighting so a regular boy in one warzone that sees alot of fighting could be the size of a nob from a warzone that has not seen alot of fighting. Also orks seem to automatically start putting on extra muscle when they are getting ready to challenge a nob for supremacy which can give the nob a warning that he is about to be challenged if he is paying attention. A regular boy is suppose to be slightly taller than the average human but they slouch alot so they appear shorter. Orks name themselves or get names from their fellow orks in the way soldiers give each other nicknames.

Your average Boy = 6-8 feet tall (fully standing).

Your average Nob = 8-10 feet tall (fully standing).

Source?

Melissia did a post on this a while back I've been trying to find... surprise surprise i once again can;'t find it maybe you'll have better luck or Melissia will post it here again

The latest Ork codex says an Ork, if he weren't hunched over, would stand taller than most men. So I'm thinking at least half a foot taller-- again, IF they stood up straight. Hunched over they're about the same size.

oh good there was an answer from Melissia though I think the one I was trying to find was about the size of a warboss or warlord... but as i recall it was an aside in a topic which is why i can't find that post >_< any chance you'll comment on the size of a warboss/warlord so i cna bookmark this page?

It depends on the planet. On a relatively peaceful planet where it's just Orks fighting Orks sporadically, the Orks are going to be somewhat smaller than on a planet like Armageddon where Orks have been fighting humans for generations. So an Ork boy from Armageddon could very well be powerful enough to beat a nob from a less war-torn world I say less, as no world with Orks on it is going to be anything but war-torn, it's just that Orks tend to be in their best game face, as it were, against non-Orks).

Basically, a nob is just a veteran Ork who is bigger than the common Boy from the warband they're currently in.

A warboss/warlord seems to be a different quality of Ork entirely, they have skills (especially mental ones, such as a superb grasp of tactics and even a decent grasp of strategy) beyond even that of nobs. It's very likely that the transition to being a warboss (likely caused by the gestalt psychic field when all the boyz realize "diz ork's da boss now!") triggers a growth in the boss' brain to have more connections between the neurons in his brain.

Melissia wrote:It depends on the planet. On a relatively peaceful planet where it's just Orks fighting Orks sporadically, the Orks are going to be somewhat smaller than on a planet like Armageddon where Orks have been fighting humans for generations. So an Ork boy from Armageddon could very well be powerful enough to beat a nob from a less war-torn world I say less, as no world with Orks on it is going to be anything but war-torn, it's just that Orks tend to be in their best game face, as it were, against non-Orks).

Basically, a nob is just a veteran Ork who is bigger than the common Boy from the warband they're currently in.

A warboss/warlord seems to be a different quality of Ork entirely, they have skills (especially mental ones, such as a superb grasp of tactics and even a decent grasp of strategy) beyond even that of nobs. It's very likely that the transition to being a warboss (likely caused by the gestalt psychic field when all the boyz realize "diz ork's da boss now!") triggers a growth in the boss' brain to have more connections between the neurons in his brain.

This brings up another question, do Orks get smarter as they grow too? I have heard that all the things they know were planted in them by the old ones, so are warbosses born with that intelligence it takes to be a boss, or learn as they go?

Orks learn as they grow up, and their bodies-- and brains-- become bigger as well. A mekboy for example experiments and becomes better at being a mekboy in the process. It's true that certain Orks have an understanding of the concepts of physics, mechanics, electronics, etc (Mekboyz), or of biology and medicine (Painboyz), or some other aspect which allows them to become an Oddboy, however... they don't have knowledge per se implanted in them, i's more like we know how to breathe-- that's not really knowledge, it's just instinct. These oddboyz instinctively understand these concepts of physical sciences. A mad dok may not know what a heart is called (if Orks even have hearts) but he knows how it works and what its purpose is.

For other Orks, they're simply content with being part of the horde. EVERY Ork competes against every other Ork and wants to be a nob and eventually a boss one day-- even doks and mekboyz (that's why you have Big Meks for example).

Certainly, warbosses seem to have a far better grasp of tactics and strategy than the common Boy (who mostly understands low-level tactical concepts such as ducking behind cover when you're shot at, or how to flank an enemy and hit them from behind when they're not looking), but whether it's simply from the experience of commanding an army or if it's from their earned position granting them instinctual knowledge it's hard to say.

Orks learn. Many do not live long enough to learn to hit the marines in the joints of their armor rather than those huge plates with the skull on them, but those that do, learn it well.

However, for the most part (as Melissa has said) orks are borne with a rather large amount of knowledge, but its not knowledge as we know it. Its knowledge of how to be an ork and function in ork society. Orks know from day one how to recognize a boss, how to fight, how to dress, how to operate a shoota/slugga. They just know, however, to gain more knowledge from that point their instincts and curiosity take over.

Id say most learned knowledge that a Mek or Painboy (beyond the high levels of physics/mechanics etc that they are borne with) has comes from experimentation and an inherent belief that what they are doing is going to work. Then that oddboy trains/shows, most often by repeating the procedure, other odd boys of the same make his discovery. Then those odd boys go out and perform experimentation of their own to adapt and grow the new knowledge. Then the cycle repeats.

Warbosses are not borne Warbosses. As I understand it, they all started out as boys and worked their way up. They use their battle experiences to grow their knowledge of tactics and stratigies. Of couse knowing to hold the biggest choppa never hurts either. I'm sure some orks are just naturally more agressive than others, those who take hold of that agression and don't die in the process eventually build the mass needed to take out the other bosses.

However, having said that. I think Gork and Mork do play favorites sometimes. Gassy has been written as the profit of the Waagh!. Weither his brain got rewired by the painboss or Gork and Mork actually have a hand in it, its obvious that he is a special ork. Same could be said of Nasdreg (badmoons warboss). His battle cunning is almost at blessed level. More so than any warboss before or since has ever garnered just from experience.

Just on the point of making your own rules for "all nob sized" armies, the rules are there for you now, if you want to use them. The Ork codex allows this.

HQ
2 Warbosses with whatever equipment

Elites:
Nobs, Nob Bikers and Meganobs with vehicles

Troops:
0-2 Nobs, Nob Bikers or Meganobs with vehicles
Grots mobs

Fast Attack:
Buggies (just model the drivers bigger) Deffkoptas

Heavy Support
Flash Gits, Looted Wagons, Battle Wagons, Kanz and Dreads.

Melissia wrote:Certainly, warbosses seem to have a far better grasp of tactics and strategy than the common Boy (who mostly understands low-level tactical concepts such as ducking behind cover when you're shot at, or how to flank an enemy and hit them from behind when they're not looking), but whether it's simply from the experience of commanding an army or if it's from their earned position granting them instinctual knowledge it's hard to say.

I recall reading something about most Warbosses being from the Blood Axe clan because of their grasp on tactics and strategy that they looted from the 'umies.

Though, then there is Ghazghkull, a Goff, and along with being the size of a Dreadnought, he is tactically and strategically capable enough to be the better of most Imperial commanders.

Actually, Warbosses specifically don't get smarter as they get bigger. It states in the Kodeks that many Warbosses are simply the Boss because they're the biggest and meanest, and might have the brains of a mentally-challenged squig (figuratively, usually). I think it was something like "Stubborn as a Bull-grox, and usually as thick headed"?


Big Meks would get smarter as they get bigger, mostly because the only ones that manage to get bigger are the ones that are smart enough to not kill themselves with their inventuns.

Anvildude wrote:Actually, Warbosses specifically don't get smarter as they get bigger. It states in the Kodeks that many Warbosses are simply the Boss because they're the biggest and meanest, and might have the brains of a mentally-challenged squig (figuratively, usually). I think it was something like "Stubborn as a Bull-grox, and usually as thick headed"?

It does tend to vary. I don't know if they get smarter when they get bigger, but some Warbosses are particularly kunnin'.

Da Boss wrote:Just on the point of making your own rules for "all nob sized" armies, the rules are there for you now, if you want to use them. The Ork codex allows this.

HQ
2 Warbosses with whatever equipment

Elites:
Nobs, Nob Bikers and Meganobs with vehicles

Troops:
0-2 Nobs, Nob Bikers or Meganobs with vehicles
Grots mobs

Fast Attack:
Buggies (just model the drivers bigger) Deffkoptas

Heavy Support
Flash Gits, Looted Wagons, Battle Wagons, Kanz and Dreads.

Good idea, might be fun to proxy, modelling 50 odd nobs would be cost prohibitive. an opponent would definitely be baffled fighting a 10 man unit of choppa and slugga nobs. The only problem then is that you don't have a comparatively badass warboss to lead your all-nob army. I guess you could do ghazzy but i'd like one that is basically the same just a little stronger and tougher, not riddled with special rules.

Anvildude wrote:Actually, Warbosses specifically don't get smarter as they get bigger. It states in the Kodeks that many Warbosses are simply the Boss because they're the biggest and meanest, and might have the brains of a mentally-challenged squig (figuratively, usually). I think it was something like "Stubborn as a Bull-grox, and usually as thick headed"?

You're probably right that many Warbosses are stupid, basically they're just the biggest nob in the band. However I'd argue that a Warlord probably is smarter / got smarter, and that's how he graduated being boss of some random warband, into an overlord of multiple planets and even systems.

In my mind I imagine the Old Ones made a skill tree for orky progression, and those with the ability to lead their race unlocking achievements and leveling up and basically becoming better and better leaders, long as they don't kill themselves along the way. Mekboys would have a similar tree, but mekanikal progrssion of course. (Level 5 ability unlocked: craft buggy)

Good idea for an Orky RPG. Maybe that's what's gonna happen with the Dark Millenium RPG.

It is basically all relative to the ork population being discussed.


a Nob in one society might only be Boy sized in another. a Boy in a society that has been fighting for long and intense periods might be considered a Nob elsewhere.


Judging by the Space Marine game, I would say that a Nob becomes a Nob when his body mass, and by extension his Strength and overall Orkyness, becomes 40% larger then the Waaagh's boyz.

Orks basically grow the more they fight and kick teeth in. eventually, a boy will become large enough to challange a Nob for mastery of his Mob. In a very large population, there might not be a confrontation as a new Nob will just look around for some Boyz of his own to boss around.

in an even larger population, the Nobs will start hanging around together and eventually one will become large enough to be even bigger then the Nobs. this guy then becomes the Warboss.



The whole deal is probably more to do with proportions then a specific size.

Grey Templar quite effectively summed it up imo.

I could only find deathskulls

Nice find what book is that from?

The nob looks sad.. I want to hug him.

Nah. Smash 'im in the head with a sledgehammer. That'll cheer him up!

Anvildude wrote:Nah. Smash 'im in the head with a sledgehammer. That'll cheer him up!

more like let the ork smash a ooman's head (or tau or necron... or nid... makes no diffrence) ... that's cheer him up

FlammingGaunt wrote:Nice find what book is that from?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Armour_Books/IMPERIAL-ARMOUR-EIGHT-RAID-ON-KASTOREL-NOVEM.html