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Hey everyone. I'm a long time reader, first time poster on Dakka. I have a tournament next week and I was hoping to get an opinion on the list. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

HQ

Farseer 55
Fortune 30
Doom 25
Spirit Stone 20
Runes of Witnessing 10
Farseer 55
Fortune 30
Guide 20
Spirit Stone 20
Runes of Witnessing 10
Runes of Warding 15

HQ - 290

Elites

Howling Banshees X 10 160
Exarch 12
Mirror Swords 10
Acrobatics 5
War Shout 5
Fire Dragons X 6 96
Exarch 12
Firepike 8
Tank Hunter 15

Elites - 323

Troops

Ranger X 10 190
Pathfinders X 10 50
Guardians X 12 96
Starcannon 25
Guardians X 12 96
Starcannon 25

Troops - 482

Dedicated Transport

Wave Serpent 90 (Guardian Squad or empty)
Spirit Stones 10
Bright Lance 45
Wave Serpent 90 (Howling Banshees with Farseer that has Doom)
Spirit Stones 10
Eldar Missile Launcher 30
Wave Serpent 90 (Fire Dragons)
Spirit Stones 10
Eldar Missile Launcher 30

Dedicated Transport - 405

Heavy

Fire Prism 115
Spirit Stones 10
Fire Prism 115
Spirit Stones 10

Heavy - 250

Total - 1750

For my opinion, I thought it would be better to give the Wave Serpents the Starcannons and give the Guardians Missile Launchers since: 1, the missiles have longer range, 2, with the low BS that Eldar guardians have, the chances of the Starcannon hitting is less than on the Wave Serpent, and if the Guardians are using the plasma instead of krak, the scattering wouldn't matter as much with BS 3. The problem is, I have to somehow remove the guns glued onto the Wave Serpent without destroying it.

Additionally, the only weakness that I saw in this army is fighting against monsterous creatures in cover/with invulnerable saves. I still remember 2 units in particular that still give me trauma. The first unit is the Space Wolves calvary. 5 space marines on calvary, toughness 5, 2 wounds, 3+ invul save, power weapons.... *shudder* The second unit are the Tyrannid high toughness creatures hiding behind swarms of gaunts getting cover saves while the gaunts themselves are also in cover, meaning all my ap weapons goes down the drain.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

if killing MCs is going to be a problem, here's a couple of things you could do. bear in mind this is all theoryhammer.

you could split the banshees into two groups. drop acrobatics. take an executioner for the added +st for higher toughness creatures.

cast doom on the MC in question. stick each one in a wave serpent and boost them up the field, tank shocking gaunts out of the way. gaunts shouldn't be able to DoG the front armor of your serpent. cast doom on the MC in question then assault. hopefully they can put enough wounds on to kill it outright or tarpit it for a couple of turns. banshee masks negate cover initiative bonuses and their PS ignore armor, plus you have the added bonus of possibly reducing them to 1 WS for the following turn.

best case, your 100pt banshee squad demolishes his synapse creature. worst case, they die after putting some wounds on him

you could also consider running a squad of scorpions and a squad of banshees with the same tactic. ditto with the fire dragons going in as well to melt their faces before the assault.

or, you could use the fire dragons to flamer the gaunts. doom them to hell, clearing a path for your banshees and heavy support.

good luck in the tourney.

Drop the banshees altogether and use the points for fire dragons in WS's 2 squads of 5 will be able to handle any MC's they happen across, keep the transports cheap, Shuriken cannons and spirit stones so they don't get slowed down. If your going to take guardians take ML on them, for the reasons you stated. Drop all the starcannons, they are terrible for their points cost, rangers are good at killing MCs, don't know if pathfinder is needed though. HQ could probably be better but that's your call, personally i'd be taking eldrad for his 3 spells a turn(for less points too).

Here's what i would take:

Eldrad -230 (going from memory, so i may be a little out)

5xFire Dragon - 80
w/h WS - 115
TL shuriken cannon
Spirit Stones

5xFire Dragon - 80
w/h WS - 115
TL shuriken cannon
Spirit Stones

10xGuardian - 130
Warlock
Embolden
EML
w/h WS - 115
TL ScatterLasers

10xGuardian - 130
Warlock
Embolden
EML
w/h WS - 115
TL ScatterLasers

10xRangers - 240
Pathfinder

Fire Prism - 125
Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 125
Spirit Stones

1600
So 150 points left(although i am most likely out on points costs)
Which gives, the same 3 spells per turn(and more) more anti tank/MC, i would change the guardians to DA for increased anti infantry but i'm unsure of what you have, for 152 points you can nab 10 with exarch dual cats with bladestorm, which shreds infantry. I'm also not a fan of rangers as 1 flamer is going to ruin their day(not to mention they're 240 points!) That said i think this could work, i run guardian lists primarily and find they perform ok if used correctly.
Good luck

drop the rangers
trim the pathfinders to 5
drop guardians and the weapons platforms for DA with bladestorm - will put up much more volume
banshees stick to the +str weapon give more consistancy
drop dont bother with firepike crack shot would be more useful
have all troops in wave serpants

Welcome to another Eldar player #1. Do not list out wargear and points cost. This is against Dakka's rules as the GW attack Pandas will strike. List the unit and gear then the total cost.


On your list, I'm not sure how competitive you local meta is, so take the advice with the though in mind of a heavy competitive current standing.

Spirit Stones - Is it really worth 10pts per tank to you to negate 1 in 6 chance on your vehicles? Play two standard games and count how many times you glanced/penned vs how many times you get a stunned result on non-holofielded tanks. 50pts of spirit stones = Holofields on both your prisms.

Banshees - Mirror Swords pale in comparison to the Executioner. Wounding marines on a 3+ vs +1 more attack w/ wounding on a 5+ is a no brainer. Banshee on average will assault an average of 1 target before they die, so in all reality Warshort is not worth 5 points and acrobatics is only good if your serpent gets unexpectedly popped.

Fire Dragons - Tankhunter = Overkill, so not worth the 15pts. Firepike, if you are trying to always get your Fire Dragons under 6" how often is that 18" worth a damn?

Guardians - Starcannons should never be an option in 5th edition. Too much cover in too many places making their price seriously not worth it. Also, never you use single shot weapons on these guys. BS3 1 shots is the road to fail and frustration. Take scatter lasers and preferably a warlock with embolden. Also never take more then 10 per squad, not worth it.

Pathfinders - Thanks to wounding on a 4+ these guys are sadly aweful. Mix with that the inability to move + shoot and the speed of most armies nowadays, they will be slaughted long before they do something useful.

Fire Prisms - Never leave home without holofields. Spirit Stones in conjunction with the Holofields isn't a bad idea either thanks to the increased occurance of stuns.

Sticking with similar models you have listed here is what I would recommend and hopefully you have some of the ones not listed.

------------------------

Farseer w/ RoWit, Stones, Doom, Fortune (Banshees)
Farseer w/ Both Runes, Stones, Guide, Fortune (Guardians)

9 Howling Banshees + Exarch w/ acrobatics, Executioner
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

5 Fire Dragons + Exarch w/ Crackshot, Dragons Breath Flamer
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

5 Pathfinders

10 Guardians w/ Scatter Laser + Warlock w/ Embolden
Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

10 Guardians w/ Scatter Laser + Warlock w/ Embolden
Wave Serpent w/ EML

Fire Prism w/ Holofields, Stones
Fire Prism w/ Holofields, Stones


This list would require an owed or purchase/borrowing of:
- Wave Serpent
- The correct weapons for platforms/tanks and Banshee Exarch (Fire Dragon gun can easily counts as)
- 2 Warlocks

The Fire Dragon exarch give the flexibility against melta non-optimal targets, plus makes wound allocation harder to kill off the dragon squad. The warlocks keep the guardian's ldr 8 in check plus help out the Farseer's powers. The Prisms will take a ridiculous beating before they go down.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would like to emphasize everything blue dagger has said- its all great advice. In light of this, I'm going to post a few other suggestions assuming you are willing to purchase new models / conversion.

Guardian Jetbikes are awesome.

3 Gu Bikes w/ a cannon accompanied by a Warlock biker with embolden and a signing spear costs 129 points.

Essentially Guardian Jetbikes replace whatever role you were filling with Pathfinders and Guardian Defenders on foot.

The difference between Guardian Jet bikes and the aforementioned foot infantry is speed and durability. Compared to pathfinders Guardian Jet bikes have a 24 inch turbo boost, and a 3+ armour save, which means they can escape from enemy units bearing down on their location, and if they do get caught under a flame template their 3+ armor save will usually protect them.
They also are armed respectably, they have the shuri cannon which gives you 3 s6 shots which combined with the singing spear can knock out enemy tanks, and the cannon along with 3 tl shuri catapults can hit small infantry squads (then assault jump back 6 inches out of charge range )
Essentially, when an enemy closes in on an objective held by guardian defenders- you lose both an objective and a troop squad. When an enemy closes in on an objective held by Jetbikes, they flit to a different objective and you lose neither a troop choice or an objective. I used to use Pathfinders and Guardian Defenders- then I bought 10 Jetbikes and converted 2 warlocks... and have never looked back.

That said, if you like the fluff behind Guardians- and really would prefer to run them instead of Dire Avengers- take a look into Storm Guardians.

A squad of 10 with 2 flamers accompanied by a Warlock with destructor costs 127 points. Put them in a Wave Serpent, drive them up to some enemies, and roast em with doom support. The flamers far outpace guardian defender shuri catapults (even with guide in effect) and the best part about their flame templates is that they don't roll to hit on ballistic skill 3. When I casually play- I always bring a squad of Storm Guardians and a squad of Dire Avengers, and the Storm Guardians usually do better.

ofc, these options are somewhat expensive, and in terms of short term fixes I agree with BlueDagger 100%. His list is definitely a respectable list using the models you listed as having and will treat you well.

The only thing I would change on Daggers list is adding bright lances to the two troop wave serpents. Since you would only be fielding a single squad of dragons at 1750, having 2 bright lances to plug into av14 as well as the s10 ap1 linked prism shot would help in the event you run into a list featuring heavy armour (not uncommon at 1750 level) Basically, I recommend lances if you are running few fire dragons, if you take 2 squads of dragons... don't worry about lances, they aren't worth it.

First off, thank you everyone for your inputs. Secondly, thank you BlueDagger for the warning. I'll be sure to not list each individual point cost upgrades from now on.

hemmingway
In terms of dealing with the MC hiding behind millions of little guys, I never thought to have just pushed them aside with tank shock. That just opened new possibilities (although most of the scenarios I can come up with ends up with the little hordes gobbling said banshees or fire dragons as soon as the turn is over). Also I'm having a hard time thinking how to push the banshees to the MC if I had to tank shock them through. At most I can only move 12'', then disembark. This means, I'll be going into close combat with the millions of hordes, or get shot to death. I do have 5 Wraithguards, perhaps I might be able to tank shock with them. Would it be possible to tank shock butt first into the hordes, disembark said Wrathguards, then hope for some , or do you have to tank shock front first?

MikZar
With the dropping the banshees and going with the Fire Dragon approach, I am a little bit hesitant with the idea. Firstly, you may have people calling you cheese. Secondly, with just Fire Dragons and the prevalence of cover saves in fifth edition, I'm afraid that I'll deal five wounds (being generous with my BS 4 rolls), then they save 3 or 4 of them, then said Fire Dragon gets lost in a wave a cc. As with Eldrad, he has been my HQ of choice until this tournament. The reason being: I use to run Eldrad with the banshees until I looked closely and realized that he does not have fleet (shame on me). So I then decided to keep him back with the Pathfinders towards my end of the table edge. But he was kind of a 80+ point sink. I would have him fortune his squad, then guide his squad, but then I would have an extra power left over. Usually, there's no friendly/unfriendly units nearby to recast guide, or cast doom, mind war, eldritch storm. Plus his power weapon is useless unless assaulted upon, and I'm in cc, I'm doing something wrong.

atlas_garon
I'm afraid that making the Eldar completely mechanized would be too much of a point sink. If an opponent does manage to get a lucky shot (since the Farseers can't be everywhere at once), then that unit is screwed, a small specialized unit without any support would probably most likely get roflstomped. I'll probably switch the banshee exarch to an Executioner. I was thinking the Mirror Swords as a gambling weapon. Odds are against me, but if I win the outcome would be better than the executioner (especially with Doom). Lastly, again with the replace Guardians with Dire Avenger, I'm afraid the 4+ cover is going to ruin everything.

BlueDagger
The Tank Hunter ability on the Fire Dragons was gravy, since I had 15 points left over. If I remove the 5 Spirit Stones and Tank Hunter, I would have 65 points, which then I can put into the Holofields (worth 70 points total, so I may have to lose a Guardian). I'm just afraid that I'll get stunned, then taken down in close combat with melta bombs and such (auto hit on a vehicle that did not move). The reason for the Fire Pike is because the rule is WYSIWYG, and exarch doesn't come with standard guns (actually, I can technically drop the exarch and recover 43 points back). Honestly, I don't know why I have Starcannons on the Guardians; maybe I was being too optimistic. For the pathfinders, I usually have them on top of objectives on the tops of buildings, so even if a flamer squad comes by I should have ample time to deal with them (unless they're Flamers of Tzeentch). Lastly, I would love to have Holofields on the Fire Prisms, but I wouldn't be able to unless I remove the Tank Hunter and Spirit Stones. Also, with the range being 60'', I probably won't get touched that much (especially if one of them is completely behind cover contributing its beam). If I watch out for outflank and nonscattering deepstrikes I should be okay...I hope. With your suggested list, the only thing I would need to buy would be another Wave Serpent (I have 4 Warlocks on standby).

akaean
Alas, as you said the jetbikes are really expensive (I kind of regret not buying the apocalypse set for the Eldar a few years back). Otherwise I would love to try it. I do have some Shining Spears on standby, maybe I can paint the Guardians that it came with and use it, but with the tournament rules I'm not sure if I have to play the jetbike as a Shining Spear jetbike, since it has a pointy thing in the back of it. Considering the tournament is next week and I have not a clue on how to convert, I probably won't be able to get a jetbike squad going in time. The main reasons for the Guardians are because I only have 5 Dire Avengers, and I would like to have at least some unit cohesion rather than a ROYGBIV army. As for the Storm Guardians, I'm not sure if I'm willing to spend 33 dollars for 8 of them. That will probably be a decision for the next tournament list. But yes I do see the potential. Run them like Fire Dragons against infantry and chances are they won't live to fight back. The only concern with that is if you're going up against a very large squad, like 20 orcs per squad big. I can't flame them all down which means I'm most likely going to get murdered.

I was thinking maybe to take out the Pathfinders and put a Seer Counce (1 Farseer, 4 Warlocks) inside the Wave Serpent, then have both Guardian Squads come in from reserve. Or maybe I can somehow incorporate 5 Wraithguards and a Spiritseer somehow.

Thank you for your inputs. I have learned a lot from everyone's contributions. Please let me know if I do something against dakka's policies again. I don't want to ruin it for everyone.

SkyHawk wrote:

As for the Storm Guardians, I'm not sure if I'm willing to spend 33 dollars for 8 of them. That will probably be a decision for the next tournament list. But yes I do see the potential. Run them like Fire Dragons against infantry and chances are they won't live to fight back. The only concern with that is if you're going up against a very large squad, like 20 orcs per squad big. I can't flame them all down which means I'm most likely going to get murdered.

I was thinking maybe to take out the Pathfinders and put a Seer Counce (1 Farseer, 4 Warlocks) inside the Wave Serpent, then have both Guardian Squads come in from reserve. Or maybe I can somehow incorporate 5 Wraithguards and a Spiritseer somehow.

Thank you for your inputs. I have learned a lot from everyone's contributions. Please let me know if I do something against dakka's policies again. I don't want to ruin it for everyone.

You'd actually be surprised at how competent Storm Guardians are, Lets say you are shooting your Storm Guardians at a big ol squad of 30 ork boyz cowering in some bushes, first you doom them with a farseer, then pull the storm guardian serpent right into them, disembark and let loose with your flamers- lets say you get 7 boyz per flamer. The Storm Guardian Flamers get 14 hits, wounding on 4s re rolling = 10.5 dead boyz on average, the Warlock gets 7 hits with his heavy flamer equivalent, wounding on 3s re rolling = 6.22 dead boyz on average, 4 pistol hits from the remaining guys, after doom and saves, will bring down about 1.5 ork boyz. totaling 18.222 dead boyz on average.

So just from your initial volley you've killed 18 boyz... if that was a squad of 20, its as good as dead. If its a squad of 30, you've taken out over half of their number, and another squad shooting into it can probably get the job done.

So the orks aren't happy about this! for the sake of argument lets say that its just boyz v guardians, so the boyz shoot their shootas 12 boyz left, 22 shots (Nob has his claw) ~ 7.2 hits and 4.8888 wounds, if you managed to deploy at least half your guys in cover or blocked by the serpent you'll only lose about 2.44 guardians on average. Lets say you take off the flamers to prepare for the inevitable charge.

Then the dreaded ork charge 12 boyz v 8 storm guardians. Guardians go first thanks to ini 4, and they are still re rolling their wounds. Most of them are getting two attacks from their swords anyway. 8 sword guardians, hitting on 4s is 8 hits, wounding on 5s re rolling, 4.444 dead orks and the Warlock will probably claim another. leaving the total number of boyz at about 7.

Sure those 7 boyz will probably beat the storm guardians, hitting and wounding on 3s, but you've nearly crippled one of the biggest troop choices in the game, and you would have annialated nearly anything less. Don't undercut storm guardians, they are surprisingly capable when they get caught in close combat. Its also funny to watch the Warlock wreck face against killa kanz...


As for a council, don't do it. Its not worth it unless you are fielding about 8 warlocks, and even then jetseer councils are better because they have the 3+ bike save to benefit from fortune, and they have a great charge range which is a problem for foot councils since wave serpents are not open topped.

Ditto on the Seer Council. People can say what they like about them all day, you won't see those configs at top tables because they have very hard edged counters and at that point cost you can't afford to be hit by a paper to your rock.

The Fire Dragon Exarch is fine to WYSIWYG as a flamer. #1 No one ever runs exarch so I'll bet $50 no one will have a clue what a DB Flamer looks like, #2 there has never been a DB flamer released lol. As long as you don't bring something like 2 exarch that are identical and say one a flamer and one is a pike, you'll be fine.

I would HIGHLY recommend Eldrad. Stick with your standard means that you have always done (Eldrad with Banshees) however when the time comes to strike, keep Eldrad in the serpent while the banshees exit. Never be afraid to also fortune up Eldrad himself and take a unit on single handed... you would be shocked at what that little bastard can take to the face and keep on laughing.

On the stunned and CCed down, the chances of that are VERY slim because there is a lot of things that have to come into play. Remember that a large portion of 40k is playing the statistics, not following the "what if"s.

The FD boxset comes with the DB Flamed for the Exarch.

Sarigar wrote:The FD boxset comes with the DB Flamed for the Exarch.

Ah good to know. I'm not a fan of the new fire dragons, I personally think they look like traffic cones lol.

Those statistics looks sound. What I meant was if I actually wanted to spend $33 on 8 models, which the minimum squad size is 10, meaning I would have to spend $66 for a new squad. But yes the Storm Guardians do sound very tempting.

As for Eldrad, I'll try to redo this list and try to fit him back inside, but he doesn't have eternal warrior, which I'm afraid of. A dreadnought once got into cc with my banshees and Eldrad. I failed his fortune saves. Bye bye remaining wounds and entire banshee squad.

I've learned a lot throughout this thread, especially new attics and unit utilization. Thank you very much for all of you guys' help.

I'm not sure if this post should still be here or if I should remake another post in the tactics section, but I had a trial game against a mechanized Imperial Guard. His army consisted of 5 chimeras with heavy flamers, multilasers, and veterans inside, which 2 of the veterans carried meltaguns. Then he had 3 Leman Russes. And to finally top it all off, 2 vendettas with veterans, each with 2 meltaweapons in the squad again.

I ran this list against him. I guess out of bad luck, I had to go second. I tried my best to hid myself, but with Vendetta scout moves, there really wasn't a lot of places to hide. One of my Fire Prisms was blown up and a Wave Serpent containing the Fire Dragons was wrecked. I tried to retaliate, but there was so much armor. I tried having my pathfinders snipe vendettas to no avail. My wave serpents with bright lance and missile launcher couldn't do much. (Couldn't penetrate) My Fire Dragons couldn't reach them in time. I had the 1 squad of Guardians in reserve, since they couldn't be inside transports or cover. My Fire Prism was only able to stun 1 chimera.

The game was pretty much over by the end of the mech Guard's second turn.

Any suggestions on how I can improve this list or change tactics against mech Imperial Guard. I thought this list's only problem was MC and horde, but I didn't consider a horde tank army.

Thanks for reading this

This is the exact reason I had to rethink my entire Eldar style of play. The biggest taboo to break is to abandon the psychic phase. Go with 2 Autarchs and reserve the whole army. This will ensure you always get to shoot first and can set up advantageous positioning.

There are several builds but you will end up with a lot of Wave Serpents, but they are a fairly decent tank.

I've set up 1850 variant for an upcoming tourney that fields 7 Wave Serpents and 6 War Walkers.

As awesome as double Autarch sounds, I don't like it.

Its no better than single Autarch on turn 3, and you lose out on psychic defense with is crucial in an all comers list.

That said- Autarchs are pretty great and I love mine to death (I run mine with a WJG, mandiblasters, power sword, and fusion gun with a squad of Warp Spiders) - and never be afraid to deploy your entire army from reserve with or without him if you don't get first turn.

As you noticed just sitting there without even 4+ cover saves from flat outing will get your army vaporized by scout moving vendettas. You gave your opponent that game on a silver platter by deploying on the board when he had Vendettas with melta vets and first turn.

Deploy your entire army from reserve, let him fester and do nothing for 2 turns. Then take everything that comes in (hopefully on a 2 or 3+ depending on how many Autarchs you ran) and hit his weakest flank with everything you've got. Use terrain to block LOS from Hydras if you can, and generally just come in swinging.

I'm sure you noticed- that pathfinders are just not that great. They can't stand up to heavy flamer chimeras for crap- and they have next to zero anti tank capabilities. As I was saying earlier, guardian jetbikes would have helped you a lot. they can wreck chimeras, etc by shooting at side armor with a cannon and spear, etc.

Mech Guard is a tough as nails match up, and if guard has first turn with aircav... deploying on the board is as good as suicide.

I see, so if this situation would to reappear again, I should put entire force in reserve, then hit him as hard as I can. Now you mentioned about hitting the flanks. This is just a quick question before I diverge this thread any further. Units coming from reserve must come from their board edge unless they have scouts? Or they can pop up from anywhere? If I do remember the rules correctly, then you would mean come in from my board edge at one side and hit the sides of his tanks?

In regards to this thread topic, would it be better to have 1 Autarch 1 Farseer, or 2 Autarchs. I also have Yriel. Is he better to use than an average Autarch? Or just stick with 2 Farssers/Eldrad+Farseer and hope for good rolls?

As always, thanks for reading this.

To answer your question with reguard to "flanking" and regular reserves

What I, and as best as I can tell others, mean is that if the IG player is spread out across his entire board edge, you come in entirely on his weakest side. You have a 24 inch turbo boost you can cross the board very quickly. You probably won't be getting side armor shots on the first turn- but the goal of your moving in from reserve should be to try to isolate one side of his army, and make as many of his heavy weapons on the other side of the table essentially worthless

Just for fun I have attached a fun diagram of exactly what I mean! Sure its a bit simplified, but the general idea is that you are using distance to lower the impact of IG guns, while using your speed and a +1 to reserve rolls to roll up the other flank.

It also gives you the first shot on Vendettas, or at least forces them to deal with a 4+ cover save (possibly bolstered by fortune)



EDIT: I would- at least at larger points, recommend 1 Autarch and 1 Farseer. That gives you a nice balance of reserve flexibility and psychic defense. Runes of Warding is too important in this age of crazy powerful psychers that exists with this latest batch of Codexes. And don't forget that most of the time double autarch and single autarch give the same benefit on turn 3.

Double Autarchs really come into their own against lists which actively hurt your reserve rolls. But for regular all comers builds- take the Farseer.

lol, nice picture. Lets just hope that the Eldar flank will pack enough fire power to do some damage. I feel that my tanks don't pack enough firepower. What would you suggest putting on the tanks?

Also, woud Yriel be better than an ordinary autarch? And also, would Autarch+Eldrad be good for this army for would that be too much of a point sink?

The usual advice for Eldar tank Armaments is the humble Scatter laser.

4 s6 shots is nothing to scoff at and is hands down statistically better at knocking out BOTH av10 and av11, due to pure volume of fire.

However, I often take only a single squad of fire dragons, and in these cases its very useful to take some bright lances on your serpents to help ease any potential anti heavy armor weakness.

I think an Autarch is a great buy at around 1750 or 2000 point games, below that I don't usually deal with him, as for Eldrad, hes an interesting choice in a mech list.

Hes absolutely needed in a foot list for the extra fortune, however I would argue that while better than a regular farseer to be sure that hes not worth the premium you need to pay to get him over a 1 or 2 power farseer with Runes of Warding. (~100-150 or so points)

Eldrad becomes worth considering if you have lots of units that need guide and doom support. If your entire army is a bunch of s6 tl wave serpents, fire dragons, and prism cannons... you will probably be better off with a simple fortune seer. However if you are using multiple squads such as blade storming Dire Avengers and Howling Banshees (AKA squads that need psychic support to be effective) then Eldrad becomes more attractive because he can give the needed support to these squads.

That said- my usual configuration at 2000 points is as follows
(95) Farseer- Warding, Doom
(125) Autarch- Warp Jump Generator, Mandiblasters, Power Weapon, Fusion Gun


I use doom to support my infantry squads (Dire Avengers, Storm Guardians, Banshees) I prefer a cheap Farseer because while enemy psychic powers are more common then ever- making Runes of Warding a great defensive addition for only 15 points. I also don't want to invest too many points into psychic powers when enemy psychic defense is also more common then ever.
The autarch is built for cruising around with Warp Spiders- simply because I love the models and how they play.

Generally you just need to figure out what combination works best for you and work from there. We can help you with synergy with a lot of different units- but you need to remember that your army should all be capable of moving the same speed. That either means everything is walking or everything is flying... usually. Hybrid builds are possible, and they can win against competent opponents, but that is incredibly difficult to do- to the point where I wouldn't even try it in a non casual setting.

SInce the last 4 threads I have read go into a tangent about to Eldrad or not to Eldrad, I figure I'll just chime in on this one (since it's the last one I have read lol).

Our beloved Eldrad, 210 pts 3 power, 3++, power weapon, Divinidation, etc etc. Easily one of the strongest characters in the game and arguably THE strongest due to his immense amount of support capability combined with amazing survivability.

It's common knowledge that he is pretty much a must have for competitive foot lists, so I won't touch that one. For friendly or theme matches I won't touch there either since that is all based on personal preference or style.

That leave us with Eldar Competitive Mech and if Eldrad is suited for it.

First some highlights:
- We're Eldard, we love going second. Sometimes though you lost the roll off and you opponent takes second... crap. However with Eldrad you can preplan to mess with your opponent's head. Place 2 models on and extreme flank at the max distance and watch your opponent scramble to get cover against them... then simply before the game starts reposition them to a more advantages location.

- 3 Psy powers, 2 can be repeats. There is never, I repeat never a game that this isn't a huge bonus. If you run fireprisms Eldrad turns them into Twin Linked Lascannnons and if you run falcons guide is a must have. Fortune is never a bad thing to have only anything, hell half the time you want to cast fortune on the farseer Wave Serpent and the Farseer himself insace it get's popped. Doom late game becomes key as things fall out of their tanks and dooming a target you don't even plan to shoot at is never a bad thing since plans change at the drop of a hat.

- 3+ Invul save with 3 power weapon/s9 vs Vehicles/wound on 2+ attack on the charge. When fortune is added to this mix you have a laughably destructive unit that for me personal has brought down countless Dreads, Terminator squads, monstrous creatures, and other high toughness/armor units... all by himself (herself if you have seen my Eldrad ). In a mech list people see your list and unless you have a seer council or Banshees they don't expect an assault by anything and when Eldrad gets out to take that death company on single handed they will laugh.. until they don't have a death company unit anymore.

- Tournaments and HQ choices always seem to go hand in hand. "Pick an HQ choice to be worth double KP", "Pick an HQ choice to be worth double VP", "Pick an HQ choice that must survive", etc etc or "You highest point cost unit" are all common place in most of the tournaments I have attended and Eldrad's survivability means this wil be increadibly hard for your opponent to score. At the same time there is typically battle point modifiers for your HQ choice surviving.

For me as a competitive player, I never leave home without Eldrad unless there is some crazy crazy tournament mission that the points will be a heavy liability or it's a sub 1k tourney (which I just bring a fluff list to support new players).

[/soapbox]

I hope this helps some people

(applaudes the soap box) and by the way blue thanks to to this thread I LOVE holo fields on my prisms much better than spirit stones made the other local Tau player go nuts when his 4 became a 1. and i thought the energy fields were a pain.

and i too will find any excuse to drop eldrad into the list the two of the same powers per turn with being able to cast a three per turn is wonder full.

guide DA, Doom marines fortune squad laugh when they ALL get back into the WS and fly off.


to your response im not sure i follow you on the cover save ruining the DA but let me know what you think with the banshees always test stuff out before you listen to people blather about it on a forum helps you decide which upgrade you think is worth it.

I like your remark on the tank hunter when you got the extra points something like that is a good spot for them.

as far as jet bikes go have some conceal and fortune there if you want to use them cause I played a guy with that list against my Tau and its was over quick once the plasma started raining he didnt have much left 3 big squads gone