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So I would assume that a Slaughermaster is almost mandatory for any Ogre army, but what lore would be best for him?

Also for a secondary caster, would a Butcher or Firebelly be better? I like the breath weapon on the firebelly, but Fire magic (IMO) is very lackluster. Also this question is already answered for anyone that doesn't want Ogre magic on their Lvl 4.

Personally, I feel that because of the +1 you get by using the ogre magic passive and that the ultimate spell is to dangerous to cast, a Lvl 2 Butcher would be perfect for using this mainly support-oriented lore.

So what do you guys think?

I'll tell you tomorrow. I like to think it's possible to not HAVE to have a caster in just about any army. TK and such excluded.

You'll take a bigger hit at enemy cast time but you may be able to use a corresponding greater points in troops. Not to mention no fear of miscasts.

DukeRustfield wrote:I'll tell you tomorrow. I like to think it's possible to not HAVE to have a caster in just about any army. TK and such excluded.

You'll take a bigger hit at enemy cast time but you may be able to use a corresponding greater points in troops. Not to mention no fear of miscasts.

Well I'm asking now because most GW stores obtained their stock today and probably most allowed people to look though.

Also I like to think of all tactics in a 2500 point competitive or semi-competitive environment.

I don't see why a Slaughtermaster is mandatory at all.

The Ogres have some nice buffs (+1 T and/or Regen in an aoe is nice) but nothing really game breaking. Most of their spells don't have terribly high casting values, even when you supersize them.

A level 1 Firebelly is great for his points. People tend to overlook the basic Fireball spell. 2-3D6 Str 4 hits is great for knocking out small annoying units, or dealing a wound or two to a warmachine.

Level 1 Beast Butcher for Wildform seems good too.

I'd like to see a lvl 4 gut magic slaughtermaster, primarily for dispell, but also to increase your chances of getting the 3 support spells. (Well, one is a sig so you are guaranteed that). I also feel that blood gruel can allow you to get to that uuber spell, which from what I understand will only do 1 str 3/7 hit to your 3 wound critters IF it misfires...

I'd also probably run 2 lvl 1s with beasts for sig spell spammage. Though I've thought of replacing them with firebellies for the regen denial/breathweapon.

Kura wrote:I'd like to see a lvl 4 gut magic slaughtermaster, primarily for dispell, but also to increase your chances of getting the 3 support spells. (Well, one is a sig so you are guaranteed that). I also feel that blood gruel can allow you to get to that uuber spell, which from what I understand will only do 1 str 3/7 hit to your 3 wound critters IF it misfires...

I'd also probably run 2 lvl 1s with beasts for sig spell spammage. Though I've thought of replacing them with firebellies for the regen denial/breathweapon.

On a failed Inititive test you take a S7 hit with Multiple wounds (D6)

a small template can easily hit 9 ogres. Six will fail their inititive test, 5 will be wounded with multiple wounds (D6), plus 3 S3 hits. Most likely killing about 4 whole ogres.

And if you misfire on the large template, feel free to tell your opponent "hey, pick a unit for me to remove from the table"

Keep the replies coming!

Ah, didn't know that it had the multiple wound rule. That makes it much more likely to eat your own face off hehe.

However you slice it, Ogres are probably gonna run like 2-3 casters now. Most likely a level 3-4 Slaughtermaster with Great Maw and either a Firebelly, a regular Butcher, or both.

Wildform on any Ogre unit is still pretty ridiculous. S5 T5 is ridiculous for a 3 wound model.

I agree with Zoned, the boosted Fireball is still pretty decent for dealing with most Regen units, but you might see a couple of issues with Hydras or other big regen monsters.

As a DE player, I can safely tell you that impact hits from a firebelly apparently negating my regen is not a happy moment. Not excited about that at all. Its really looking like v. ogres my hydra just went down a notch or two.. seeing as how 2 lvl 1 firebellies and ironguts with flaming banner could easily mean that all of their blocks negate my protection. ><

Complaining aside, unless hydras/HPAs are the biggest concearn you have (when it should be cannons), I see beasts being more useful overall. Just straight up sig spell spamming as when you start combining buffs it'll get ridiculous. s8t6 ironguts?

I was talking with a friend and we thought it would be pretty hilarious if my Ogres and his Lizardmen would have a purple sun fight.

Also death magic might not be so bad. Fear tests at -3 Ld, -1 S&T debuff, purple sun, and assasination spells seem pretty cool.

Now thinking about it though the Great Maw/Beasts combo is pretty good. Sadly it won't leave room for a Firebelly (i think he will mainly be used as a combat-oriented arcane item carry (forbidden rod anyone?))

Kura wrote:
Complaining aside, unless hydras/HPAs are the biggest concearn you have (when it should be cannons), I see beasts being more useful overall. Just straight up sig spell spamming as when you start combining buffs it'll get ridiculous. s8t6 ironguts?

cannons actually suck against MI blocks.

if the cannon hits, it only has a 55% chance to actually kill a single ogre. 27% chance if the ogre has regen. and if it fails, the cannon ball stops dead in place.


Cannons are best against Infantry, Cavelry, and Monsters. MI just laughs off the cannon ball.

Grey Templar wrote:

Kura wrote:
Complaining aside, unless hydras/HPAs are the biggest concearn you have (when it should be cannons), I see beasts being more useful overall. Just straight up sig spell spamming as when you start combining buffs it'll get ridiculous. s8t6 ironguts?

cannons actually suck against MI blocks.

if the cannon hits, it only has a 55% chance to actually kill a single ogre. 27% chance if the ogre has regen. and if it fails, the cannon ball stops dead in place.


Cannons are best against Infantry, Cavelry, and Monsters. MI just laughs off the cannon ball.

Cannons pierce ranks, which I think is the part we're negating here. Even if your 3 deep, chances are it will wound all 3, and assuming an average dice roll it could easily do about 10 wounds. thats 3 ogres dead and 1 with a wound off it. My cheap de spearman may loose five models or so, but 3.3 ogre models is much more points.

You don't understand how cannons work against Monsterous Infantry.

if the cannon ball fails to kill the first ogre, it stops bouncing right there and doesn't continue. it only goes on to the 2nd if the first ogre dies. likewise, the 3rd ogre is hit only if the 2nd and the first is killed.

Grey Templar wrote:You don't understand how cannons work against Monsterous Infantry.

if the cannon ball fails to kill the first ogre, it stops bouncing right there and doesn't continue. it only goes on to the 2nd if the first ogre dies. likewise, the 3rd ogre is hit only if the 2nd and the first is killed.

This is true.

And that's why I love my Warp Lightning Cannon...

I think Gut on the lvl 4 is probably the way to go. Making small gnoblar redirectors stubborn is great, coupled with regen on whatever big beast you take.

The other spells all have uses and you can never really go wrong with +1 str or +1 toughness. The nice thing is that the boosted versions are relatively cheap to cast, except for regen.

I think you'd have to be out of your mind to cast The Maw, unless you're playing against other ogres or something with a huge unit of low I, high wound creatures. Because it scatters on the arty die, you have a pretty low shot at getting a direct hit. While a misfire that directly hits one of your blocks is low probability, it can be game losing if it happens. However, hitting most single wound units with what equates to a mortar is not worth that risk.


Other than lvl 4 with Gut, I would only really consider firebellies. Ogres still have trouble dealing with harpies / cammy skinks and those annoying redirectors, so a fireball is always helpful. For the cost, a firebelly is insanely good. The breath weapon / fire attacks solve so many top tier army list problems (hydras, aboms, regen grave guard) and it comes on a beefy ogre body.

I don't think losing the fire attacks / breath weapon / fireball is worth it to take a butcher with beasts or the like. I guess I'd consider a butcher with Gut to try to get another stubborn spell for small gnoblar redirectors, but again the firebelly solves too many top tier army issues to not use.

How many fire belly's can you fit into a list?
2D6 breathe hits, along with impact hits and stomps goes a long ways to clearing out those pesky steadfast problems that ogres have.
The fact that you a guy who can channel and cast fireball is just a bonus.

-Matt

Yeah, the magic ability is a bonus. you really want him for those Flaming attacks and that breath weapon.

I thought about running just Firebutts with no Butchers/Slaughters. I'm not really blown away by gut magic and you HAVE to have one if you use other magic...except fire. I mean, trollguts is awesome. But your enemy, if he's smart, is just going to save his dispel dice for that, and that's even if you get it. If you don't get the spell, Slaughtermasters are pricey.

Ogre heroes are damn damn good.

Gutmagic is certaintly different, but remember that the boosted versions effect an area. so its actually more effective in some ways.

I will probably always take some Gutmagic.

zeekill wrote:

Kura wrote:I'd like to see a lvl 4 gut magic slaughtermaster, primarily for dispell, but also to increase your chances of getting the 3 support spells. (Well, one is a sig so you are guaranteed that). I also feel that blood gruel can allow you to get to that uuber spell, which from what I understand will only do 1 str 3/7 hit to your 3 wound critters IF it misfires...

I'd also probably run 2 lvl 1s with beasts for sig spell spammage. Though I've thought of replacing them with firebellies for the regen denial/breathweapon.

On a failed Inititive test you take a S7 hit with Multiple wounds (D6)

a small template can easily hit 9 ogres. Six will fail their inititive test, 5 will be wounded with multiple wounds (D6), plus 3 S3 hits. Most likely killing about 4 whole ogres.

And if you misfire on the large template, feel free to tell your opponent "hey, pick a unit for me to remove from the table"

Keep the replies coming!

Why would your butcher or slaughtermaster be in the middle of an ogre unit instead out on the side?
So that when misfire occurs it is him and only the one next to him and (if a 2nd rank) the 2 behind that take a hit from the small template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember also that butchers still make pretty decent combat heroes and if there are points left over from any arcane items, take a magic sword.

Also for the firebelly take the +3 Initiative for 1 turn potion then charge in for I5 flaming breath weapon goodness.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Why would your butcher or slaughtermaster be in the middle of an ogre unit instead out on the side?

Cuz 3 of the 6 spells have their extended version become AE and affect anyone within a radius. The more central the caster, the more likely you will get your entire army (or a lot of it) with the effects. The spells simply aren't that great unless you can get them on more than one unit or unless you're running an ogrestar or such.

And the way the miscast works is the enemy gets to move it anywhere. It's not centered on the caster unlike some other miscasts. So wherever is the worst place for it to be, that's where it's going.

I use a level 3 Slaughtermaster and a level 2 firebelly. The flame breath and flaming attacks are far too tastey to put down. It is perfect for Ironguts to get a fire wound early in the round, and remove pesky regen for the entire HTH turn.

And throwing that nice, flamey fireball early in the magic at regen monsters flushes dispel dice rapidly, allowing the Great Maw it's way with your ogres.

Creon wrote:I use a level 3 Slaughtermaster and a level 2 firebelly. The flame breath and flaming attacks are far too tastey to put down. It is perfect for Ironguts to get a fire wound early in the round, and remove pesky regen for the entire HTH turn.

And throwing that nice, flamey fireball early in the magic at regen monsters flushes dispel dice rapidly, allowing the Great Maw it's way with your ogres.

I'm thinking level 3 or 4 with death magic (for the hero sniping), and 2 firebellies in blocks of iron guts. The Iron guts will have full command, putting the fire belly's safely in the 2nd rank at the start of combat.
As for fireballing monsters with regen, I'd let my hydra take it. T5 and 4+ armor is decent, and I only lose regen for that PHASE. So unless you've got some more spells to take advantage of the loss of regen, I'll be saving my dice for other spells.

That should be a fairly cheap character set up, leaving me more points for more ogres.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:
I'm thinking level 3 or 4 with death magic (for the hero sniping), and 2 firebellies in blocks of iron guts.

You'll need one more SM or Butcher. At least one non firebelly wizard in your army must take Maw Lore

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

zeekill wrote:

Kura wrote:I'd like to see a lvl 4 gut magic slaughtermaster, primarily for dispell, but also to increase your chances of getting the 3 support spells. (Well, one is a sig so you are guaranteed that). I also feel that blood gruel can allow you to get to that uuber spell, which from what I understand will only do 1 str 3/7 hit to your 3 wound critters IF it misfires...

I'd also probably run 2 lvl 1s with beasts for sig spell spammage. Though I've thought of replacing them with firebellies for the regen denial/breathweapon.

On a failed Inititive test you take a S7 hit with Multiple wounds (D6)

a small template can easily hit 9 ogres. Six will fail their inititive test, 5 will be wounded with multiple wounds (D6), plus 3 S3 hits. Most likely killing about 4 whole ogres.

And if you misfire on the large template, feel free to tell your opponent "hey, pick a unit for me to remove from the table"

Keep the replies coming!

Why would your butcher or slaughtermaster be in the middle of an ogre unit instead out on the side?
So that when misfire occurs it is him and only the one next to him and (if a 2nd rank) the 2 behind that take a hit from the small template.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remember also that butchers still make pretty decent combat heroes and if there are points left over from any arcane items, take a magic sword.

Also for the firebelly take the +3 Initiative for 1 turn potion then charge in for I5 flaming breath weapon goodness.

I assume you are talking about misfiring the 6th spell - in which case if you misfire you opponent gets to place it anywhere on the board, it doesnt go on top of your caster.

If I did Ogres. The Idea I like now is to use

Firebutt Commandos.

2 units of Leadbelchers each with a Firebelly

A big block of Ogres with as many ward saves as I can get in front there to stop cannon shots.

Maneaters with guns. To do some chaos. And I might use a hunter (with a gun/harpoon) because it's really nice and not shoot and move if he's riding.

The idea is to make an Ogre-ish gunline. The maneaters have potential to flank and do all kinds of tricky things. we blast 'em up as we engage melee. For those units that we dont want to melee, we just stand there shooting. I don't plan on the two war machines because they're kinda ugly and weird. But I could see putting the hunter on a mount with his sniper rifle.

Their high tech gear comes from copious trade with Chaos Dwarfs. Not getting just any slaves, but special requests for them to...whatever Skaven do with them. Some bad Camoflage and bandoliers of rocks for the Leadbelchers.

I'll probably never do it, but I like the idea right now.