Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So if my pistol has armour piercing that means it's special rule will work for shooting and close combat?

That maybe no for every other army, but since Ogre pistols can be used in combat as an additional hand weapon it sounds like yes.

Hand weapon /= armour piercing. In fact the definition of a hand weapon is that it has no special rules attached.

So no, you do not get armour piercing in CC

Where does it say that in he book.

Not trying to be a pain, I just like having something to reference if this comes up again?

Look up thte rules for Handweapons. Brace of pistols counts as an additional hand weapon - they do NOT have the profile shown when shooting.

Your reference is the OK book.

That maybe no for every other army, but since Ogre pistols can be used in combat as an additional hand weapon it sounds like yes

In the BRB all pistols count as an additional hand weapon following all the rules for having an additional hand weapon. There are quite alot of armies that have access to pistols.

As Nos said too, you are not firing the pistol in CC, you are using it as a club (fluff wise). Rule wise, you follow all the rules for having an additional hand weapon. That means you hit at the strength of the bearer, and you do not get armour piercing.

Here's my problem with that. I've looked at the hand weapon rules and I can't find anything that says you can use special rules.

1) the pistol was given permission to be used in cc
2) the ogre pistol has AP, quick to fire, multiple shot
3) there is nothing I can find in BRB that states special rules can't be used in combat.

Pg 91 BRB there are 2 profiles given for Brace of Pistols. One for ranged & 1 for cc. CC is at str "as user" and grants the extra attack SR, but not AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which, I guess, may not address the original point, but (for cc) it is exactly the same profile as 2/additional hand weapon. Which as nos & lens have already stated, is what a pistol would count as in cc.

edit: brace of handguns... nm

Just to keep clarified... ALL pistols have quick to fire, and AP. Dwarves also have Brace of Pistols, which grant multiple shots as well.

The Pistol has Armour piercing when fired. You are not firing it in close combat however.

Page 39 of your OK codex has the profile for your brace of handguns. That profile includes a range, that means you cannot use that profile in close combat. Now a brace of handguns has the rule that they count as a pair of pistols in all other respects.

Look at page 91 of the BRB for your brace of pistols entry. There you have 2 profiles. One that is useable in combat, and one that is shooting.

The profile you should be using is the brace of pistols (combat) entry when using your brace of handguns in close combat. Without this profile, the sentence "A brace of handguns counts as a pair of pistols in all respects" is meaningless. The combat profile for brace of pistols has different special rules.

mrfantastical wrote:Here's my problem with that. I've looked at the hand weapon rules and I can't find anything that says you can use special rules.

1) the pistol was given permission to be used in cc
2) the ogre pistol has AP, quick to fire, multiple shot
3) there is nothing I can find in BRB that states special rules can't be used in combat.

Have you found anything that says hand weapon have any special rules? You wont, because the definition of a hand weapon is that it has no special rules. None at all.

Your problem is that you are applying a ranged weapon profile to close combat, when you are told they are used as "additional hand weapon". You then look up additional hand weapon, and it tells you the profile to use - that of a hand weapon.

DOes that, anywhere, give you permission to use other rules? No.

Think of it like this, in CC the ogre dosen't shoot the gun he pistolwhips the enemy with it.

mrfantastical wrote:Here's my problem with that. I've looked at the hand weapon rules and I can't find anything that says you can use special rules.

1) the pistol was given permission to be used in cc
2) the ogre pistol has AP, quick to fire, multiple shot
3) there is nothing I can find in BRB that states special rules can't be used in combat.

Following that logic, a dwarf cannon would get 4 S10 attacks that do D6 wounds in melee.

-Matt

"can be used as a Missile Weapon (with the profile below)"
"In close combat, they follow the same rules as an additional hand weapon."

Ogre pistols have absolutely no difference from a generic hand weapon when used in close combat. They only have a different profile when they're shot as a Missile Weapon.

@Hoverboy: I believe the term is "handgun whip", as far as ogres are concerned.

Warpsolution wrote:@Hoverboy: I believe the term is "handgun whip", as far as ogres are concerned.

I think the craniums of their enemies really could care less about what its called