Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was thinking about taking a larege unit of 6 rat ogres with skweel and a warlord riding a bone breaker into a game and seeing what it can do? The estimated point cost would be around 600 points.

I don't think you can have Skweel in a unit with a Warlord as Skweel can only join rat ogres and giant ogres. Otherwise it would mean Skweel could mutate the warlord.

If Skweel rolls Regenerate, it's damn nice. If he doesn't, it's not so nice. So 1/3rd chance.

New Ogres are the baseline for big fat fatties. Rat Ogres < Ogres. By a fair amount with the new book. If you want to use them as part of a theme is one thing, but you're not as cost effective as a lot of armies you'll be facing.

skweel cant give his bonus to the warlord but poison and extra attacks are not bad side effects as well. I haven't picked up the new book yet so I'm not sure how to compare.

As I said, I don't think the Warlord can join, period.

But Rat Ogres are 40 pts.
Ogres are 30. With -2I, -1S, no frenzy but light armor and charge and higher LD. The extra attacks that Skweel can give can be purchased by Ogres for 1 whole point a model (extra hand weapon). Sooo...that's what it's worth. Ogres can also get ironfists which becomes heavy armor and a parry save for 2 pts a model.

Or you can compare them to ironguts which are 43 vs. Rat's 40. Basically same stats as Ogres except heavy armor and great weapon. So they'd have 1 Str on Rats.


I think it's okay and all, but Skaven have much better options. They aren't a MI army. They got hordes and war machines and good magic and weapons teams.

Skweel himself is basically 2 1/2 Rat Ogres' cost. And he's not worth that unless you get regen. If he gets sniped or challenged or otherwise killed, it's also not as good.

I love rat ogres, and if I did skaven, it'd be a rat ogre army with the special character that makes them core (assuming skweel).

That said, I agree that it's far from the best option skaven have available...

Your thinking of Throt The Unclean

Bloodhorror wrote:Your thinking of Throt The Unclean

Yup that guy

problem is, he cant be used inside an ogre unit unless you want to periodically lose one of your ogres. You'll need a different unit to keep him full

the warlord can join a unit of rat orges it is in the discription for the mount section under bonebreaker.

I dont think that replacing my core with rat ogres would be a great idea but it would be a great unit to support the horde.

As for the comparison of ogres to rat ogres, good to know.

Hytanthas wrote:the warlord can join a unit of rat orges it is in the discription for the mount section under bonebreaker.

But Skweel can only join a unit of giant rats or rat ogres. That is in his description. A warlord is neither of those. A Warlord can join Rat Ogres regardless of having a Rat Ogre mount--the mount actually places a limitation on the unit types it can join.

DukeRustfield wrote:

Hytanthas wrote:the warlord can join a unit of rat orges it is in the discription for the mount section under bonebreaker.

But Skweel can only join a unit of giant rats or rat ogres. That is in his description. A warlord is neither of those. A Warlord can join Rat Ogres regardless of having a Rat Ogre mount--the mount actually places a limitation on the unit types it can join.

Skweel isn't joining the warlord. He is bought with the rat ogres. The warlord joins the rat ogres during character deployment.
It doesn't matter if other characters join. Characters joined to units count as a member of that unit.

-Matt

Before i sold my dkaven i had some success with a horde of 15 rat ogres with warlord on boebreaker hits like a ton of bricks strong tough good initiative problem is no saves

A problem somewhat lessened if Skweel grants them regen though.

I'd also make sure to pick up an Ironcurse Icon on whatever leader you join to the unit. 6++ against war machines isn't fantastic, but I suspect a big bus of Rat Ogres will see a good amount of war machine fire. Assuming you don't have regen, a 6++ save is better than nothing.

Let me know how it works out. I've been wanting to try Rat Ogres out for awhile.

It would have been a lot more feasible if chieftains could've taken bonebreakers aswell as you could have gotten a bsb in there as well

That's one of the things that's slightly perplexing about Rat Ogres/Packmasters and adding characters. The R.Ogres are on 40mm bases, while the packmasters themselves are on 20mm bases. If I add a character, and have enough packmasters, would he get LoS? Which counts as RnF in that unit? I would guess the R.Ogres (it is a R.Ogre unit after all) but it's not like the Packmasters are characters or anything, and IIRC the unit is typed as Monsters/Handlers ala Salamanders.

streamdragon wrote:That's one of the things that's slightly perplexing about Rat Ogres/Packmasters and adding characters. The R.Ogres are on 40mm bases, while the packmasters themselves are on 20mm bases. If I add a character, and have enough packmasters, would he get LoS? Which counts as RnF in that unit? I would guess the R.Ogres (it is a R.Ogre unit after all) but it's not like the Packmasters are characters or anything, and IIRC the unit is typed as Monsters/Handlers ala Salamanders.

I think not.
Rat ogres are Monstrous Infantry.
Pack Masters are Infantry.
But I think the unit is type Unique.
That would mean that the character does not get a look out roll, as you aren't in the same type of unit.

The only let down in the skaven book is the lack of mount options for Chiefs.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

streamdragon wrote:That's one of the things that's slightly perplexing about Rat Ogres/Packmasters and adding characters. The R.Ogres are on 40mm bases, while the packmasters themselves are on 20mm bases. If I add a character, and have enough packmasters, would he get LoS? Which counts as RnF in that unit? I would guess the R.Ogres (it is a R.Ogre unit after all) but it's not like the Packmasters are characters or anything, and IIRC the unit is typed as Monsters/Handlers ala Salamanders.

I think not.
Rat ogres are Monstrous Infantry.
Pack Masters are Infantry.
But I think the unit is type Unique.
That would mean that the character does not get a look out roll, as you aren't in the same type of unit.

The only let down in the skaven book is the lack of mount options for Chiefs.

-Matt

Right on the first and second (Rat Ogres are MI and Pack Masters/Master Moulders are infantry) but there is no specific entry for the unit as a whole. I tried to find rules for Mixed Units but couldn't find anything.

As a parallel, would a skink priest joined to a skink/kroxigor unit be allowed LoS rolls? (I have no idea if Skink Priests are even allowed to join sking/kroxigor units...) I suppose the parallel is off as the unit is labeled a "skink" unit, while the skaven version is labelled "Rat Ogres". Still, with both Rat Ogres AND the Pack Masters able to be upgraded to unit champs, and neither group getting access to musicians/standard bearers, the whole thing gets a little murky.

Enh, I suppose the biggest thing is that only Rat Ogre ranks are used when determining the unit's rank bonus for Strength in Numbers.

Edit: There's the lizardman FAQ entry stating that mixed units are type Unique, so that's where it was. Found nothing on it in the MRB faq.

Edit: Wait, the MRB FAQ also added "same troop type", not unit type, as long as he's actually a part of the unit...

ya know what, I think I'm going to get some aspirin...

streamdragon wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:

streamdragon wrote:That's one of the things that's slightly perplexing about Rat Ogres/Packmasters and adding characters. The R.Ogres are on 40mm bases, while the packmasters themselves are on 20mm bases. If I add a character, and have enough packmasters, would he get LoS? Which counts as RnF in that unit? I would guess the R.Ogres (it is a R.Ogre unit after all) but it's not like the Packmasters are characters or anything, and IIRC the unit is typed as Monsters/Handlers ala Salamanders.

I think not.
Rat ogres are Monstrous Infantry.
Pack Masters are Infantry.
But I think the unit is type Unique.
That would mean that the character does not get a look out roll, as you aren't in the same type of unit.

The only let down in the skaven book is the lack of mount options for Chiefs.

-Matt

Right on the first and second (Rat Ogres are MI and Pack Masters/Master Moulders are infantry) but there is no specific entry for the unit as a whole. I tried to find rules for Mixed Units but couldn't find anything.

As a parallel, would a skink priest joined to a skink/kroxigor unit be allowed LoS rolls? (I have no idea if Skink Priests are even allowed to join sking/kroxigor units...) I suppose the parallel is off as the unit is labeled a "skink" unit, while the skaven version is labelled "Rat Ogres". Still, with both Rat Ogres AND the Pack Masters able to be upgraded to unit champs, and neither group getting access to musicians/standard bearers, the whole thing gets a little murky.

Enh, I suppose the biggest thing is that only Rat Ogre ranks are used when determining the unit's rank bonus for Strength in Numbers.

Edit: There's the lizardman FAQ entry stating that mixed units are type Unique, so that's where it was. Found nothing on it in the MRB faq.

Edit: Wait, the MRB FAQ also added "same troop type", not unit type, as long as he's actually a part of the unit...

ya know what, I think I'm going to get some aspirin...

Just to make it more complicated; are pack masters rank and file? You've got to have 5 rank and file models to get a look out. In a sink unit, I'd say skinks are rank and file. I'm not sold on packmasters being rank and file in a rat ogre unit.

Same problem comes up with rat packs, as rats are warbeasts...

-Matt

And this is why we have complete and updated FAQs!


wait...