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To preface, I am a 20 year old college student.

So I went to my college's cafeteria today, and the man serving me had what appeared to be Parkinson's disease. His hands were shaking rather violently. I felt bad for this man, but continued on my way.

This then got me thinking. What if I were to develop Parkinson's disease? How would it affect my life? I then realized that I would be unable to paint or model, and this was an extremely depressing thought. But what is one to do in this instance? According to wikipedia, doctors don't know what causes Parkinson's, let alone how to help it.

If I were to develop Parkinson's I basically couldn't play warhammer 40k (or any other miniwargame for that matter). Painting would be impossible, I couldn't glue my models straight, measuring distances would be close to impossible. I feel that the only course of action would be to give up the game I love.

This all seems rather selfish, and it is in a way. Maybe its just a young man being too preoccupied with what could be, instead of what is, but I can't help thinking about these things. Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter? Does anyone in the audience suffer from Parkinson's? I'm very curious to know.

Well, aside from anything else I think it raises an important point - that we should be grateful for things we have, even if it's something as simple as being able to hold a miniature or a paintbrush.

On the bright side you'll be very good at rolling dice...

You could most definately still play, measuring takes a second or so and any discrepancy may well be take into account by a lenient opponent. Painting may be impossible or simply the sufferer waits until they have a good day to paint, it isn't that bad all of the time. Indeed, some sufferers only get the shakes upon exertion and other factors so it would still be possible. The shakes are one part of the illness which, whilst debilitating and life changing, would not particularly stop a keen player.

Of course there are other illnesses which can cause the person to suffer tremors such as MS, strokes or hyperthyroidism, amongst others.

My wife's Grandmother has it. It sucks when we put on our tourney next year some sort of parkinson's foundation will be our charity benifit.

I want to say there's someone who's actually a fairly accomplished painter/modeller who was diagnosed with MS (or similar) on the board. If I recall she does just fine still.

I was going to say, you could easily find some way of doing more than feeling bad for the person and field what if questions all day.

Take a proactive approach and do a fundraising tournament.

Hell, this year we're doing a Breast Cancer fundraiser/tournament so I figure just about any cause worthy of support could get a good following...

Just a thought.

Parkinson's would only keep you from playing if you LET it. There would always be ways around the problems.
Don't assemble and paint your own models (sucks, but whatcha gonna do?).
Maybe you've got to set down your measuring device & move the models to it.
If you're playing with buddies, you might need one of them to actually move the models for you (again, sucks, but...). If they're your friends, they'll be happy to do it.

What would worry me about gaming would be losing my sight. With Parkinson's, it's easy enough to tell someone where to put the models on the table, as you can see where you want them. Blind, though? Gah.

Eric

Hello, disabled gamer here.

As a disabled gamer, with a condition that effects fine and gross motor control, albeit not to the extent of parkinson's, you should still be able to game. You might need some help in the movement phase, but who doesn't from time to time.

Painting and modelling would be an issue. I've had this discussion with many TOs over paint scoring, and my physical inability to paint to a high standard, and have been told to hire a commission painter, or stick to events where paint scoring is not part of the overall score. You may still be able to paint, it may just take longer, and you may need to stick to simpler schemes.

I still enjoy painting, even if my schemes are nowhere near as complex as some of the others around the shop, and am proud of my collection of simple looking armies. Painting for disabled gamers has luckily gotten a lot easier for disabled gamers in recent years, you can do a lot with army painter spray and citadel washes!

your reaction is admirable, and in a way heartwarming to consider the plight of others.

Instead of filling yourself with dread, you learn to make do.

part of the process to acceptance is grieving. you mourn, and then you move on.

I have a problem in my legs that means I can't really walk for very long or run at all. considering I was in the Air Force, this depresses me from time to time.

you learn to cope and move forward.

one of my motorcycle instructors happens to be a friend of mine, and he only has 1 arm. he races, teaches, rides dirtbikes, street etc etc, all with 1 arm. and he is FAST let me tell you.

just can't let things get ya down.

Grimtuff wrote:On the bright side you'll be very good at rolling dice...

I Honestly did not expect that...

Now... Do i laugh at this comment or just gasp in horror...

I can empathise.

I don't have Parkinsons, and godswilling never will, but i have nerve damage in my hands and a few other fun little issues.

I get tremors in my hands from time to time, which makes gaming interesting (i've had to ask my opponent to hold my pieplates so that i don't beat a tattoo on his model's heads with them, for example) and typing is a bit of a trial (my spelling is lousy when they get bad).

I also have little to no sensation in my left thumb and the two fingers next to it. This has the benefit of my fingers not hurting when i'm holding DE models to assemble them, but the downside that I don't know when i've cut them until my model gets a red basecoat.

I'm also deaf in my right ear, which makes tourney play interesting when there are multiple games running, especially the third game of the day, when everyone is getting a bit punchy, and getting louder by the minute...


You get used to it, and do the best you can. Will I ever be a GD quality painter- probably not.

Can i still game, within my limitations, hell yeah!


One inspiring story some folk may remember, back when WD was still good. One of the sculptors (can't remember his name, sad to say) was at a historical re-enactment event and accidentally got his hand blown off by a cannon accident. He was fitted for a prosthetic, and was apparently sculpting greenstuff att the hospital in recovery, and talking about having his new hand modified to have sculpting tools built in.

My grandpa had Parkinson's. If you got it, gaming would soon end up pretty low on your list of stuff you wished you could still do.

Bloodhorror wrote:

Grimtuff wrote:On the bright side you'll be very good at rolling dice...

I Honestly did not expect that...

Now... Do i laugh at this comment or just gasp in horror...

Keep in mind the "f word" creeps into many of my posts.

In all seriousness I remember there being a guy that played and painted and was totally blind in one eye and half blind in the other. He could still play, even though a few allowances had to be made (he had some divots drilled into whippy sticks at 6" intervals so he could see them better) but all in all he coped pretty well.

Yeah you guys are right. You simply have to press on. I did have the thought of an "aide" helping with the moving of gaming pieces. IDK it just seems to take the fun out of it. There is something visceral about charging my guys into combat or tank shocking a unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lord_blackfang wrote:My grandpa had Parkinson's. If you got it, gaming would soon end up pretty low on your list of stuff you wished you could still do.

This may be true, but if gaming is your main hobby, and source of entertainment, I feel losing that would be pretty high on said list. Outside of basic neccesities of course.

A very worthwhile topic.

I was just reminded of this kind of thing last week when I read a post in another forum where a gentleman was looking to trade his old miniatures in exchange for painting services. He had developed an eye condition and couldn't see the miniatures close enough to paint anymore so he was trying to find someone who would paint the figs for the games he was currently playing.

The only positive side of many disabilities is that until the disability becomes advanced (See Lord_blackfang's comment for what happens then) there are ways to participate in the hobby.

-Reasonable priced painting services are plentiful.
-Things like rolling dice and maneuvering troops can be easier with helpfull opponents.
-Collecting and fluff research can often go on long after the ability to paint is gone.

As to Parkinsons specifically, my mom has it and she has actually been doing more watercolor painting and piano playing since it began as a way of keeping her fine motor skill active. As was said, Docs don't know what causes it, but these kind of activities have been shown to slow the disease a bit.

Ascalam wrote:One inspiring story some folk may remember, back when WD was still good. One of the sculptors (can't remember his name, sad to say) was at a historical re-enactment event and accidentally got his hand blown off by a cannon accident. He was fitted for a prosthetic, and was apparently sculpting greenstuff att the hospital in recovery, and talking about having his new hand modified to have sculpting tools built in.

Not just any sculptor, Michael Perry! He lost his favoured (right) hand, but he's been doing alright since! (though I think he sculpts with his left, now?)

One of my mum's friends died recently and had parkinsons's for several years and it badly affected his painting, he was very good in years gone by. His shaking got a bit better when they changed his medication though, but it was very sad.

In my years of gaming, I have came across a wide variety of persons with disabilities. Many of them find a way to cope with their disability and work around it. As a poster above mentioned, I have a lot of nerve issues in my hands, along with some vision issues. It is not disabling does I will not even compare it to MS or Parkinsons. I have learned to cope and adjust my painting is just fine, so is my gaming.

If I were part of a gaming group, and a local buddy was diagnosed and struggling with a movement disorder. I'd happiliy man up and paint for them if they were ok with it, so they can stay involved in their hobby. Stay active really is the best medicine and does wonders mentally and physically.

I think that most minor disabilities (minor being a relative term) can be overcome by the owner(?) if the drive is strong enough.
I play drums, I have damn near crippling arthritis and am in pain most of the time. I'm still in a band though.
There's a dude who comes into my LFGS sometimes who's deaf. but he still plays, he can read lips and is still alright to play with if you can understand is slightly unintelligible speech.

I think that if you stated getting parkinsons your painting would go downhill a bit, but you could possibly give it a go.
and i don't see much of a problem with shaking hands while gaming because if your hands are shaking too much too use a measuring tape then your gonna find it difficult just to get out of your house.
just be thankful for what you've got buddy.

I played with someone who has fairly bad tremors, made worse with stress and got pretty bad during tournament play. Measuring distances was probably the hardest thing for him since he simply couldn't hold a tape measure still so I asked if he would mind setting it on the table to check his range, moves, and assaults. He took it in stride and thanked me for the advice since it made things much less stressful and easier for him. Also, my concern over 7-8" charges from Blood Angels was relieved. I offered to hold both our templates as long as he didn't mind counting the models hit. All in all, we had a great, friendly game which is generally what happens if you have a little compassion, tact, and courtesy.

I myself have hearing damage and find it very difficult to communicate during tournaments. Anyone with disabilities or injuries will find a way to do what the things they love to do, if they want it enough.

Gavin Thorne wrote:so I asked if he would mind setting it on the table to check his range, moves, and assaults. He took it in stride and thanked me for the advice since it made things much less stressful and easier for him. Also, my concern over 7-8" charges from Blood Angels was relieved. I offered to hold both our templates as long as he didn't mind counting the models hit. All in all, we had a great, friendly game which is generally what happens if you have a little compassion, tact, and courtesy.

Class act dude.

sirrah wrote:

Ascalam wrote:One inspiring story some folk may remember, back when WD was still good. One of the sculptors (can't remember his name, sad to say) was at a historical re-enactment event and accidentally got his hand blown off by a cannon accident. He was fitted for a prosthetic, and was apparently sculpting greenstuff att the hospital in recovery, and talking about having his new hand modified to have sculpting tools built in.

Not just any sculptor, Michael Perry! He lost his favoured (right) hand, but he's been doing alright since! (though I think he sculpts with his left, now?)

This was what he was sculpting:

BrookM wrote:

sirrah wrote:

Ascalam wrote:One inspiring story some folk may remember, back when WD was still good. One of the sculptors (can't remember his name, sad to say) was at a historical re-enactment event and accidentally got his hand blown off by a cannon accident. He was fitted for a prosthetic, and was apparently sculpting greenstuff att the hospital in recovery, and talking about having his new hand modified to have sculpting tools built in.

Not just any sculptor, Michael Perry! He lost his favoured (right) hand, but he's been doing alright since! (though I think he sculpts with his left, now?)

This was what he was sculpting:

I've always loved that story about Michael Perry. Gotta love the name, if there is one thing the world needs it's more Michael's...just ask my GF =o]

The GK is one of the all time best GW models. I have it. I've painted it, it's freaking amazing, but I never knew thats what he was working on at the time. Learn something new everyday eh?

Parkinson's Disease can be treated (to an extent. My uncle has it) with medication.

Something you may want to look at it, is the benefits that Mr. Cafeteria Worker is getting from the school (or more likely the 3rd party that the school contracts). The college that I went to had a student revolt over the lack of benefits and living wage that Aramark paid the school's cleaning and cafeteria staff.

My grandfather died from this disease... however, I like to think that he was mentally prepared and ready to go, as it has a slow onset. It's a really, really tough thing to go through.

I have read and heard that, interestingly, riding a bike Really helps:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/health/01parkinsons.html

Killamop wrote:I think that most minor disabilities (minor being a relative term) can be overcome by the owner(?) if the drive is strong enough.

I don't think overcome is realy the right term. I think worked around is a better way of putting it. People so often talk about overcomeing disabilities, and think it meens your fine which is not true. Most people would not be able to tell that myself and my wife both have disabilities because of a combination of years of learning to work within or around them and knowing what we both can and cannot do.

I know what you meen though. I am just painfully aware that there is allot of people who don't know what it is like to have a disability, and assume that everything is ok when you use terms like overcome.

I might be wrong here, but I recall the tremor with Parkinson's is largely something that takes over when the person is relaxed. But goes away when concentrating (at least while the disease is in its early stages). Also healthy people actually tremor a little bit too (ever tired looking through a hand held telescope, or taking a photo with a slow shutter?). My point is that not having a steady hand isn't as important as you might think. I sketch a lot on the bus, which can be a pretty bumpy ride. But I still manage okay, because you adapt to the movement and learn to time your pen/brush strokes to roll with the motions rather than across them. I imagine you might be quite surprised by how well a person with Parkinsons might be able to paint if they chose to do so. Hopefully by the time you are old the disease will be curable (that human genome thing has to pay off sooner or later right?).

I have a tremor in my right hand. It's certainly nowhere near as debilitating as having one full time is. There's moments where it will spasm on me for lengthy periods of time with no provocation. During those times I can't move it right, if at all. My fingers sort of go limp, but my palm tenses up. Sometimes it causes me to drop things and sometimes I can't let go of what I'm holding. Thankfully it's not constant and I can do things with it normally when it's not acting up.

When I'm painting detail becomes impossible. I've intentionally left some of the mistakes in out of frustration for having to redo them so much. While playing I'll have my opponent or a friend move minis. If the surface is flat enough I'll use my wrist to move them or simply my other hand. It's a difficult thing to deal with, but with creativity and helpful people around it's manageable. I worry about the day it worsens because I'm told it might.

You could play with Parkinson's, provided you had some assitance. All it would take would be like-minded opponents, people who enjoy playing against you as a person. One of the worst ass -whippings I ever recieved on the table top was from a guy who was legally blind. We developed a system where I assisted with the bits of the game he needed help with. Took 5 minutes to set those accomodations up. Then he proceeded to wipe the floor with me, lol. Did it slow the game? Yeah. Did I have a good game? Sure did. Because he is a goodfella. But I measure the quality of the game more by the opponent than by their models. YMMV.