Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Got a few questions that came up with while battling tonight.

Chimera has a Sqd of Storm troopers in it. 4 HSLG, 1 Hvy Bolter (Vet Sgt). Chimera moved 6". Only 1 weapon on Chimera can fire now, I know that. Questions are :
A) Can my troops in the Chimera still fire out of the top hatch, even though the Chimera moved?
B) Should my ST Sgt with the Hvy Bolter be able to fire since the troops did not "move" or is his weapon considered "crew served" and must be set up?
C) If my ST Sgt can not fire because of his HVY Bolter, can the other 4 troopers fire thier HSLGs?

I need some verification on ths gang.
Please help.

Dan

If the vehicle moves then the passengers inside are considered to have moved as well and thus can only fire weapons they are normally allowed to fire while moving.

OK
So since my Hvy Bolters cannot fire then, should the HSLGs be able to fire?

Depends are they assault or heavy? I am unfamiliar with those.

Yes, but only as if they had moved, so one shot at 12" per HSLG.

Heavy Bolter
R=36
S=5
AP=4
Heavy 3

Gunnery Sgt Harker carries one. My Vet. ST Sgts have access to the IG armoury thus the Hvy Bolter.

If they can carry it, shouldnt they be able to fire it too?

The Hot Shot Las Guns are not heavy or assault.

You can't have a heavy bolter in a storm trooper squad, so that makes question B) irrelevant.

If you moved only 6", up to 5 models may shoot non-heavy designated weapons (assault or rapid fire). Because HSLG are rapid fire, you could only shoot them up to 12" away, but twice. You could not fire one shot up to 18" because you count as having moved.

danpieri wrote:Heavy Bolter
R=36
S=5
AP=4
Heavy 3

Gunnery Sgt Harker carries one. My Vet. ST Sgts have access to the IG armoury thus the Hvy Bolter.

If they can carry it, shouldnt they be able to fire it too?

The Hot Shot Las Guns are not heavy or assault.

Unlike Harker, I don't think the Sergeant is Relentless. Therefore, if the Chimera moved, only models with assault weapons, pistols, or rapid fire weapons may fire.

Where did I read then that a Vetern Storm Trooper Sgt has access to the IG Armoury thus has access to a Heavy Bolter?
If I am wrong, then I will change my lineup.

danpieri wrote:Chimera has a Sqd of Storm troopers in it. 4 HSLG, 1 Hvy Bolter (Vet Sgt). Chimera moved 6". Only 1 weapon on Chimera can fire now, I know that. Questions are :
A) Can my troops in the Chimera still fire out of the top hatch, even though the Chimera moved?
B) Should my ST Sgt with the Hvy Bolter be able to fire since the troops did not "move" or is his weapon considered "crew served" and must be set up?
C) If my ST Sgt can not fire because of his HVY Bolter, can the other 4 troopers fire thier HSLGs?

A question... are these IG Stormtroopers? If so there's no way the Sgt can have a Heavy Bolter in the first place. Harker is only for a Veteran squad, not Stormtroopers.

a) BRB pg 66 - Fire Points. (But in short yes, they can still shoot)
b) IG ST Sgt can't have that weapon, but if he had he couldn't shoot. The squad counts as moving if the transport does.
c) Yes, nothing forbids the others from shooting if one model can't.

danpieri wrote:Where did I read then that a Vetern Storm Trooper Sgt has access to the IG Armoury thus has access to a Heavy Bolter?
If I am wrong, then I will change my lineup.

How old is your codex?

Looking at the 5th edition codex here.

So, in short, even if my vet st sgt could not shoot his (now aparently wrong) Hvy bolter, the other 4 STs should have been able to fire thier HSLGs and maybe even rapid fire them.
I should have been able to take out more of the other guys troops then!! AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

danpieri wrote:Looking at the 5th edition codex here.

So, in short, even if my vet st sgt could not shoot his (now aparently wrong) Hvy bolter, the other 4 STs should have been able to fire thier HSLGs and maybe even rapid fire them.
I should have been able to take out more of the other guys troops then!! AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

Not sure where you got the "may take things from the armoury" idea...that hasn't been in any book in 5th, or even late 4th.

But yes, the others should all have been able to fire twice at the shorter rapid fire range (though I'm not sure if you have veterans or storm troopers - there is a pretty big difference!)

IIRC, in the 3rd. ed codex, there was an option for sgt's to take up to 30 points of wargear from the armory.

And you only get one shot at 12" from a rapid fire weapon if the firing model is embarked in a transport that has moved, as the embarked models count as having moved as well.

BRB, pg. 28, 66

Rapid fire weapons ALWAYS fire TWO shots at 12" or less, regardless of whether or not you have moved.

Nocturn wrote:IIRC, in the 3rd. ed codex, there was an option for sgt's to take up to 30 points of wargear from the armory.

And you only get one shot at 12" from a rapid fire weapon if the firing model is embarked in a transport that has moved, as the embarked models count as having moved as well.

BRB, pg. 28, 66

I don't know where you get this notion of only firing once with rapid fire. Rapid fire weapons may fire up to one shot up to the weapon's maximum range (18" in this case) if they have not moved (the vehicle they're embarked in hasn't moved), or they may fire twice up to 12" if they have moved (the vehicle they're embarked in has moved combat speed, 1"-6").

Nocturn wrote:And you only get one shot at 12" from a rapid fire weapon if the firing model is embarked in a transport that has moved, as the embarked models count as having moved as well.

That's from the 3rd edition rulebook, isn't it? When you could assault if you only fired once?

danpieri wrote:Looking at the 5th edition codex here.

So, in short, even if my vet st sgt could not shoot his (now aparently wrong) Hvy bolter, the other 4 STs should have been able to fire thier HSLGs and maybe even rapid fire them.
I should have been able to take out more of the other guys troops then!! AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

As for the underlined, you never Rapid Fire a bolter any more than you Heavy a lascannon, or Assault a storm bolter. Rapid fire is the type of weapon, not a mode of firing.

However, when firing a rapid fire weapon within 12" My friends and I like to refer to this as the "Double Tap"

As stated above pg.28 of the rule book will sort you out. If you dont have one then you should get one. In the meantime this will be of help

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180126_Warhammer_40,000_(5th_Edition)_Reference_Sheet.pdf

My bad. That's what I get for posting in the middle of the night after my phone woke me up...

Interesting! I am the other player in this, and at the FLGS we had been playing that if one member of the squad could not shoot then the squad itself could not fire. Meaning that since the Hvy Bolter could not fire then his squad mates also could not. It seems that this is in error and we will adjust accordingly and I am sure everyone will be happier to be able to shoot more.

JS9272 wrote:Interesting! I am the other player in this, and at the FLGS we had been playing that if one member of the squad could not shoot then the squad itself could not fire. Meaning that since the Hvy Bolter could not fire then his squad mates also could not. It seems that this is in error and we will adjust accordingly and I am sure everyone will be happier to be able to shoot more.

So you've been playing that if a tactical squad with missile launcher moves then no-one can shoot?

This is going to have a huge impact on your gameplay then.

Indeed it has. We generally end up combat squadding tactical squads so that the ML can sit in back while the flamer, or whatever other weapon, can become the maneuver element. This will also make Rhinos a little more dangerous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

danpieri wrote:Looking at the 5th edition codex here.

So, in short, even if my vet st sgt could not shoot his (now aparently wrong) Hvy bolter, the other 4 STs should have been able to fire thier HSLGs and maybe even rapid fire them.
I should have been able to take out more of the other guys troops then!! AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

No you really couldn't have and actually killed more than you should have as you were outside of the 12" rapid fire range as I recall. Having moved you can only use the rapid fire range of 12" not the max range of 18".

Scott-S6 wrote:...This is going to have a huge impact on your gameplay then.

Not really, since if you move you only have a 12" range with a standard bolter. Will not impact the game that much.

JS9272 wrote:No you really couldn't have and actually killed more than you should have as you were outside of the 12" rapid fire range as I recall. Having moved you can only use the rapid fire range of 12" not the max range of 18".

First, while stationary, standard bolters have a range of 24" not 18".

As for the underlined, there is no such thing as Rapid Fire range. Rapid fire is the type of weapon, not a mode of firing.

You never Rapid Fire a bolter any more than you Heavy a lascannon, or Assault a storm bolter.

Storm troopers HSLasgun only have an 18" range

nosferatu1001 wrote:Storm troopers HSLasgun only have an 18" range

It's true, and a part of me died inside the first time I read that.

Raythor wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Storm troopers HSLasgun only have an 18" range

It's true, and a part of me died inside the first time I read that.

Than the rest died when they FAQ'd you cant FRFSRF them :(

They didnt need to FAQ that

A stormbolter is not a bolter. A HS Lasgun is not a lasgun

Scott-S6 wrote:So you've been playing that if a tactical squad with missile launcher moves then no-one can shoot?

This is going to have a huge impact on your gameplay then.

Sorry about that. I was going off the above, which references tactical squads, in my last post.

Well, that's neither here nor there. Still, it would've been nice Er, in regards to nos' post... Man, you can post fast.