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am I the only one who thinks that Vindicators should get plus one av if you outfit it with a seige sheild? That would be amazing...

No it wouldn't. Siege Shields are just fine the way they are.

AV13 not good enough for you? And the Siege Shield's purpose isn't to act as extra armour, it's to clear debris and ruins.

No.. better side armor would be better.. the mini has extra armor on the sides

Phototoxin wrote:No.. better side armor would be better.. the mini has extra armor on the sides

...Which can be represented by the Extra Armour upgrade.

IDK It just seems that if you have to shoot through another 3' of steel I should get something for it...

Tyranids? Tyranids. wrote:IDK It just seems that if you have to shoot through another 3' of steel I should get something for it...

Except that it's not 3' of steel is it? It's a panel of steel much like you'd find on a garden variety bulldozer, or extra ablative armour panels on the flanks.

Its actually probably ceramite/adamantium.

Those vidicators drive through walls of fortresses.

Perhaps a front armor of 12, and the Siege Shield will give it +1 AV?

It's fine how it is.

Not amazing at all..

maybe side AV 13-as my Khantonian tank hunter squads enjoy going melty melty straight through them

as note-isnt extra armour free on vindicators?

It's fine the way it is, if you want good tanks go play IG.

I do.

Personally I'd like some way to up the side armor slightly, but otherwise I don't think it should be changed. No one _ever_ fires at my vindicator's front armor. It's always side/top. Which is pathetic. But you can manage with some half decent placement. I take the siege shield, and get my tank into cover so I at least get myself a save.

master of ordinance wrote:
as note-isnt extra armour free on vindicators?

No, it isn't. You have to pay for that, just like any other vehicle out of the Vanilla codex.

To add to the discussion of the Seige Shield, I think they work fine. While I agree that Vindicators are a little under armored on their sides (for what they are supposedly capable of doing, according to fluff), I don't think that Seige Shields are the answer to the problem.

For 10 points, they do pretty well for themselves.

No they dont. They are over priced. A 5pts dozerblade does just as well 35 out of 36 times when you have to take a DT test.

Dozers work for Difficult Terrain, Siege Shields work for Dangerous Terrain.

tedurur wrote:No they dont. They are over priced. A 5pts dozerblade does just as well 35 out of 36 times when you have to take a DT test.

How would you balance it then? How much more expensive should the SS cost, and how would you justify it? IMHO, for 5 more points, having 100% certainty of passing a DT test is worth the 2.8% difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Valkyrie wrote:Dozers work for Difficult Terrain, Siege Shields work for Dangerous Terrain.

I don't have the codex handy at the moment, so I can't confirm what the exact wording on the DB or SS are, but being that Non-Walker type vehicles all treat difficult terrain as dangerous (but ignore having to roll for difficult terrain), I'm tempted to say that both serve the same purpose. One is just more efficient than the other.

Valkyrie wrote:Dozers work for Difficult Terrain, Siege Shields work for Dangerous Terrain.

Difficult is dangerous for vehicles...

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:Dozers work for Difficult Terrain, Siege Shields work for Dangerous Terrain.

Difficult is dangerous for vehicles...

What he said. Check pg 57 in the BRB.

Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

tedurur wrote:
Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

That'd be a nice concept, actually. +1d3 wouldn't be very overpowered, and it would make them a threat against AV14 vehicles. Or maybe, reduce the strength of the hit being done to it on the return hit (-1d3). I think both could work.

to be fair. The shield already gives it extra armour. Doesnt it coem with the shield for free?

And it's based off a rhino chassis which is FA 11.....so in theory the shield actually gives you +2 AV.

Praxiss wrote:to be fair. The shield already gives it extra armour. Doesnt it coem with the shield for free?

And it's based off a rhino chassis which is FA 11.....so in theory the shield actually gives you +2 AV.

Black Templars Vindicators can't take siege shields, and yet have FA 13.

Doh. Foiled by un-read codex.

Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

I love it!




(Italisized print mine)

Tyranids? Tyranids. wrote:Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

I love it!




(Italisized print mine)

The thing is, it doesn't damage structures because it rams them hard, it's because it builds up enough pressure to raze the static walls. If you try doing the same to a vehicle, it'll just push it around.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tyranids? Tyranids. wrote:Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

I love it!




(Italisized print mine)

The thing is, it doesn't damage structures because it rams them hard, it's because it builds up enough pressure to raze the static walls. If you try doing the same to a vehicle, it'll just push it around.

Oh I see, didnt realize that Vindicators of the 40th millenium was the same as them Bulldozers we have now...I think its fairly well established that the Vindicators can simply drive through a wall thanks to its large momentum, it does not need to use hyraulics to build up pressure until the fortification collapses and as such it would be better att ramming tanks as well.

tedurur wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tyranids? Tyranids. wrote:Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

I love it!




(Italisized print mine)

The thing is, it doesn't damage structures because it rams them hard, it's because it builds up enough pressure to raze the static walls. If you try doing the same to a vehicle, it'll just push it around.

Oh I see, didnt realize that Vindicators of the 40th millenium was the same as them Bulldozers we have now...I think its fairly well established that the Vindicators can simply drive through a wall thanks to its large momentum, it does not need to use hyraulics to build up pressure until the fortification collapses and as such it would be better att ramming tanks as well.

You missed the point. Buildings are anchored to the ground, vehicles are not. Thus, you'd simply shunt the vehicle out of the way.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

tedurur wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Tyranids? Tyranids. wrote:Imo the Sigeg Shield could confer some bonus to a ram. Being ramed by something that drives through fortifications without much of a problem should cause more damage than a rhino...it would also make the Vindicator less useless when/if the cannon gets blown off...

I love it!




(Italisized print mine)

The thing is, it doesn't damage structures because it rams them hard, it's because it builds up enough pressure to raze the static walls. If you try doing the same to a vehicle, it'll just push it around.

Oh I see, didnt realize that Vindicators of the 40th millenium was the same as them Bulldozers we have now...I think its fairly well established that the Vindicators can simply drive through a wall thanks to its large momentum, it does not need to use hyraulics to build up pressure until the fortification collapses and as such it would be better att ramming tanks as well.

You missed the point. Buildings are anchored to the ground, vehicles are not. Thus, you'd simply shunt the vehicle out of the way.

Aah, I see. Just like a car gets shunt out of the way when it collides with a train or lorry/truck
The Vindicator has a higher momentum/speed. As such it will be able to exert a higher stress on the materials in the object it is colliding with. Collisions between real worlds objects are not elastic...