Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been working on my Saim-Hann lately and I just wanted to know what you guys thought of this list at 1500 points, It's a fluffy list as their are only Skimmers and Jetbikes, I have little long range Anti-AV 14 which isn't good, If I come up against a land raider I need to get my Spears to assault it.

So far this list is has 2 Wins and 0 Losses

HQ: Autarch - 140
Jetbike
Mandiblasters
Laser Lance
Fusion Gun

HQ: Farseer - 160
Jetbike
Spirit Stones
Fortune
Doom

Troops: 10 Guardian Jetbikes - 303
3 Shuriken Cannons
Warlock - Embolden
- Singing Spear

Troops: 10 Guardian Jetbikes - 303
3 Shuriken Cannons
Warlock - Embolden
- Singing Spear

5 Shinging Spears - 237
Exarch - Star Lance
Withdraw
Skilled Rider

Fire Prism - 150
Holo Fields

Fire Prism - 150
Holo Fields

This leaves me at 1443, (I normally run this list with a SL/SC Vyper but i tooks it out and added some things) any ideas?

Im thinking either add one more jetbike to each squad and add some things to the seer, or add Mind War to the seer and Spirit Stones to both Prisms

I would consider adding conceal to your jetbike squads. Since you have 10 guys and jetbikes are tougher I don't think you'll be needing that as much.

A bikecouncil might be a good thing to try about instead of shining spears. It seems like a very solid list though, I like it

Wow guy! I love the gusto and jetbike feel of it all, but it could definitely do with some streamlining!

First and foremost, your jetbike squads are way to big. The biggest squad size you'll want to run them in is 6 w/ 2 cannons + a warlock. Any bigger than this and they become incredibly unwieldy. Its also worth noting that in this configuration you'll have more flexibility in splitting up your cannon fire, and another singing spear to toss, and an extra scoring unit. Not only that, but its a lot easier to place 7 bikes than it is to try to keep 11 safe.

Second Shining Spears and JetLocks are on opposite ends of the "good" spectrum. Shining Spears are the worst close combat unit in the codex, and Jetseer councils are hands down the best. This is for a variety of reasons.

1) the jetlocks are more durable, they have a 3+ armor save combined with a 4+ invulnerable save, which combined with the farseer's fortune makes them incredibly survivable againt all weapons. the Warlocks also have a larger squad cap, so you can get more bodies, which also helps with survivability.

2) Witchblades are a better weapon than the laser lance. Sure the Lance ignores armor, and usually wounds on a 2. But the Witchblades always wound on a 2, and get s9 vs vehicles. Most importantly however is that the Withblade rules are always in effect. This means that while Shining Spears are utterly worthless if they don't get a charge, you can place warlock's more defensively, blocking charges on your GJB with a nearly indestructible melee squad. Shining Spears, even though they are on jetbikes still only have an 18 inch charge range. This means that to be able to charge the next turn they'll probably be in tactical marine rapid fire (move + shoot), assault range of most bike troops / thunder wolf calvarly, etc. Not good.

I would also consider replacing your Fire Prism with Dragon Wagons. They would help you more deal with armor, as you should have the small arms fire to handle most non BA infantry. However even against BA only 2 prisms won't help much as they can be stopped from linking their shots fairly easily.

taking these suggestions in mind, this is the type of list I would recomend for Saim Hann shenanigans.

(130) Farseer- Bike, Warding, Fortune
(365) 7 Warlocks- Bikes, embolden, enhance, 3 destructor

(180) 5 Fire Dragons and Wave Serpent- tl shuri

(205) 6 Jetbikes + Warlock- 2 cannons, spear, embolden
(205) 6 Jetbikes + Warlock- 2 cannons, spear, embolden
(205) 6 Jetbikes + Warlock- 2 cannons, spear, embolden

(70) Vyper- scatter, underslung cannon
(70) Vyper- scatter, underslung cannon
(70) Vyper- scatter, underslung cannon

Total: 1500

That list actually gives you more jetbikes, a stronger and more tactically adept close combat unit, more anti heavy tank (fire dragons and council with witchblades).

While it doesn't have Saim-Hann's signature Shining Spears, it does have Vypers, which are another one of Saim Hann's specialties, and they can provide for extra movement blocking as well as anti transport and infantry support.

The farseer is as cheap as it can be. Providing psychic defense, allowing the taking of the Warlock Squad, and supporting them with fortune. Witnessing can be taken if you are paranoid, but the sqaud's embolden lets you re roll failed psychic tests anyway. Witnessing only really helps against other Eldar andTyranids. Warding, however is necessary for an all comers list, giving the bird to enemy psychers is a god send. Warding is hands down the best psychic defense in the game with unlimited range, and against leadership 10 it blocks 50% of the time and forces perils ~40%. Brutal.

I see your point but I disagree with the fact that spears are defiantly not one of the worst combat units. Infact they have been brutal to the enemy both games ive played them. While Seer councils have the vehicle killing power they lack troop killing power. Spears on the other hand have lances, so before I assault I get 5 S6 shots that have the Lance rule, not the best but there OK there is also 1 S 8 Lance and then The Farseer that goes with them. But I havent played with a Seer council yet so ill have to try it out.

Altrough now that I think about it moving ten Jetbikes either takes turbo boosting or some Dangerous Terrain tests

I think what he means more or less is that they're very glasshammer, in that they're neato on the charge, but awful at anything else. I want them to be good, because the idea is sweet but alas.

When they don't get the charge they're pretty much just 35pnt GJBs which isn't worth it, for 10 points more you get, a 4+ invul, and a witchblade not to mention access to support powers.

only thing i would say is check on trying out warlocks with conceal so you can not get blasted by heavy weapons punching through your armor.

other than that its a neat list at 1500 points how you weild it will be the biggest factor in its sucess but on paper looks good fast and hard hitting

I agree with @, smaller jet bike squads, so more troops, always use lock with embolden and spear. I love the look of shining spear models and have them myself, but more often then not they usually flounder or are a one hit wonder. I think a seer council or fire dragons in serpeant would be good, I know vypers are more expensive than war walkers, but they are fun to play and work great in conjunction with jet bike squad or guided by a seer. Though I hope when they do a new codex, they include the Wasp.. Cool model, count as a troop choice, cheap, deep strike, jump jets, B.S. 4 - like a nice war walker - cool model too.