Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

I was watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZPqPWC5aQs&feature=channel_video_title

and it mentions that GW stopped stores selling online by threatening to sue them, and mentioned the 'war store' so I went to check it out and it says:

Due to Games Workshop's 'no internet shopping cart' policy we cannot display Games Workshop items for sale on our website, nor offer them for sale in a shopping cart.

is this a US-only thing? how come I know lots of UK stores that sell GW stuff, what happened to this whole thing?

ratchet565 wrote:is this a US-only thing? how come I know lots of UK stores that sell GW stuff, what happened to this whole thing?

I think this stupid policy is thrust upon any retailer they feel can bully into it. I think they don't try and push it onto any retailer who is big enough to call them on their stupid nonsense in court and set the precedent that this is an anti-competitive practice.

Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere, but why won't GW allow shopping carts? Or pics of their goodies?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere, but why won't GW allow shopping carts? Or pics of their goodies?

I don't know the history on the former, but on the latter - pics of their goodies - thats not exactly true. They don't want you using their pictures - i.e. hotlinking from their site - or using their images which they hold copyright to. And they're right, technically, even if it's incredibly short sighted. They don't care if you use pictures of their product if you took the pictures themselves.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere, but why won't GW allow shopping carts? Or pics of their goodies?

Probably because they want ALL THE MONIES, but that's just me speculating.

Ah thanks Ouze, although it seems as you say a tad short sighted and doesn't stop us lot hotlinking.
Still baffled by the shopping cart thing though

If it is as you say Kilroy it still shifts GW stock. It just seems to endorse a perceived conflict of GW being in competition with people selling their goods as a manufacturer and retailer.

I think Noseferatu might be the one to fill us in on how the shopping cart situation first happened. I vaguely remember he explained it once but I forget.

I'd like to hear the story behind how this came about as well.

I would also like to know what their retailer agreement looks like. GW (or any other company for that matter) can't control how you resell an item, that is, they can't drag Warstore or anyone else into court for having an online shopping cart. If I were to open a online store and bought GW items 2nd hand, on ebay or from wherever, and photographed the items myself, I can have a shopping cart and there is nothing GW could do about it.

But, if Warstore signed a retailer agreement stating they will not sell online via shopping cart, then GW would have a suit for breach of contract, but would most likely result in GW revoking the retailer agreement and the Warstore being unable to buy from GW.

oh, so this thing is still in effect? I thought since there are loads of online stores now selling GW kits that they had dropped all this nonesense

It's not hard to figure out. GW doesn't just want to sell their own products, they want to ensure that people buy them only from them. Considering it's illegal to force a store to stop someone selling to you (or was, hello Australia/Japan/NZ/Brazil/South Africa/etc.), the next best thing is to make the purchase into a hassle.

Removing shopping carts makes ordering things a hassle. I've never bought any GW items from TheWarStore.com (not that I even could now, but that's another story) because it's a pain in the ass to put the order through.

And it's only the US (and maybe Canada).

its because GW is both a manufacturer, distributor and retail store. They manufacture anddistribute a product as well as a retail outlet as well for the same product. They are trying to find ways for them to compete against these distributors but not put them out of business. GW is unable to sell their product from their retail outlets at less than MSRP. This allows an equal footing for them to distribute and sell their product to local stores, online retailers, and their retail stores. Their policy is set up in a way to prevent a price disparity. Since they can't force people online or at the local store to sell at MSRP, they try to discourage selling their product for less than MSRP online because this is one area they can directly control. They can tell their customers you can't use our copy righted images to sell your products (the box art) and they discouraged the transaction by removing the shopping cart (I live in the US so I don't know if it affects the rest of the world).

If GW were to sell the product for the same price that these distributors were selling we'd all be crying about how unfair GW's business practices are... well, we'd be crying even more about their practices since we already cry about how expensive the hobby is getting...

They don't care if they put other distributors out of business. In fact, some of their business practices have made them seem like they are going out of their way to make selling their products difficult (especially when they open a GW store nearby).

ratchet565 wrote:oh, so this thing is still in effect? I thought since there are loads of online stores now selling GW kits that they had dropped all this nonesense

Yes. Online retailers had to drop their "shopping carts" as few years ago. The second this goes out of effect, you'll see places like The War Store selling the GW stuff with a shopping cart.

I can't comment on the exact whens, the what fors, and the whys, though.

boyd/HBMC - I would suggest that the fact that they only do this in the US is an indicator that this is related to US legal conditions. Just as in Germany they will sue on sight if you are within touching distance of making a 40k film.

I would be interested in Mikhaila's veiw on this topic since I would imagine he would know the whys and wherefores of the policy.

The arguement that GW wants distributors/retailers to go out of business when the rely so much on them in the US doesn't hold water IMHO.

boyd wrote:its because GW is both a manufacturer, distributor and retail store. They manufacture anddistribute a product as well as a retail outlet as well for the same product. They are trying to find ways for them to compete against these distributors but not put them out of business. GW is unable to sell their product from their retail outlets at less than MSRP. This allows an equal footing for them to distribute and sell their product to local stores, online retailers, and their retail stores. (snip)

They seemed to have successfully competed from 1975 to approx 2008 without this bizarre tactic.

GW's official policy is the no online store thing is to "protect brick and motar stores from online discount stores" Not saying this is right, but it is what GW has told me several times before. The thing is they don't care about brick and mortar store since they themselves sell online with free shipping and no tax.

That's the same excuse they gave for the embargo, and embargo that is currently protecting big massive B&M stores like Maelstrom Games from dastardly 'internet freeloaders' like... Maelstrom Games.

Wait...

H.B.M.C. wrote:That's the same excuse they gave for the embargo, and embargo that is currently protecting big massive B&M stores like Maelstrom Games from dastardly 'internet freeloaders' like... Maelstrom Games.

Wait...

Never said I agreed with it. In fact, I feel the main reason for it is GW wants to monopolize the internet business, since they are the only ones allowed to sell on the internet.

If that was the case then what is to stop them doing it?

I think that GW operate like other branded companies in that they offer a Premium price product and a discount one as well but via a differant name or in this case sales route.

E.g. Usually we will see this with Cereal or Shampoo products. Head and Shoulders for £3, own brand for £2 but the same product.

Likewise GW sell full price at GW and cover the discount market by selling via others as well, thus maximising market share.

To monopolies would just force people out, where as they can get 60% through selling via ANOTHER to cheap skates like me.

This being the case (again IMHO) I can not see why the shopping cart thing in the US exists, especially when there are exceptions?

notprop wrote:boyd/HBMC - I would suggest that the fact that they only do this in the US is an indicator that this is related to US legal conditions.

As I already said in this thread, there is absolutely nothing that GW can do legally in the US to any online store with a shopping cart for GW products, short of refusing to sell them more stuff. They may have an argument to maintain a minimum retail price (since Dr. Miles was overruled a few years ago), but then we get into Fair Trade laws, Sherman Anti Trust act, retail price maintenance, and a bunch of other stuff that likely noboby here cares about.

Ouze already linked an Amazon listing for AoBR. GW isn't stupid enough to get into a pissing match with a company the size of Amazon, its much easier to bully around smaller companies.

notprop wrote:

I would be interested in Mikhaila's veiw on this topic since I would imagine he would know the whys and wherefores of the policy.

Me too. I wonder what the terms of any retailer agreement he signed with them state.

Just checked on Wayland and they have a shopping basket facility for GW products. So I assume it is a US only restriction.
Sorry if someone RoW has already posted to say they too are sans baskets.

Phobos wrote:

notprop wrote:boyd/HBMC - I would suggest that the fact that they only do this in the US is an indicator that this is related to US legal conditions.

As I already said in this thread, there is absolutely nothing that GW can do legally in the US to any online store with a shopping cart for GW products, short of refusing to sell them more stuff. They may have an argument to maintain a minimum retail price (since Dr. Miles was overruled a few years ago), but then we get into Fair Trade laws, Sherman Anti Trust act, retail price maintenance, and a bunch of other stuff that likely noboby here cares about.

I get that, Sorry mate that was badly phrased.

What I meant perhaps there was someting to do with the way that retail/online sales operated locally in the US that might be detremental to GW interests/practices.

[poor made up example coming up] GW as an off shore company might have to deal with a miriade number of tax issues depending on where each sale was made and if it was to a differant state with differant tax levels or something? [poor made up example is now over]

It seems far fetched that US tax as per example would be that complicated but so does GW hates FLGS when that seems contary to the way they seem to operate? Just trying to get a feel for why there might be such a counter productive practice in place?

Hate to say it but I don't have a major issue with no online sales. Look at it this way. If I open a brick and mortar store I am paying rent per square foot to stock merchandise to sell. That area I can recoup expenditures on. Now to keep folks coming back I also have to provide gaming space. Each square foot of area dedicated to gaming is rent paid I don't get a return on.

I can open an online store, stock items in my basement then sell at a discount as I am paying no additional overhead since I'd need a place to live anyway.

Oddly enough for this reason I do not personally purchase from online retailers since none of them will provide me an address where I can come to their place and game for free. Sure brick and mortar retailers could sell at the 20-25% discount on-line retailers sell for but then they'd have to charge you to game or go out of business.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Hate to say it but I don't have a major issue with no online sales. Look at it this way. If I open a brick and mortar store I am paying rent per square foot to stock merchandise to sell. That area I can recoup expenditures on. Now to keep folks coming back I also have to provide gaming space. Each square foot of area dedicated to gaming is rent paid I don't get a return on.

I can open an online store, stock items in my basement then sell at a discount as I am paying no additional overhead since I'd need a place to live anyway.

Oddly enough for this reason I do not personally purchase from online retailers since none of them will provide me an address where I can come to their place and game for free. Sure brick and mortar retailers could sell at the 20-25% discount on-line retailers sell for but then they'd have to charge you to game or go out of business.

The 90's called, they wan't their business model back.

You can't control the internet (yet anyway), you can't keep up what is now a failed business model by trying to restrict sucessfull ones.

B&M stores need to evolve to compete with Internet retailers, either by having their own On-line stores with the same pricing policies or by having the stock available for their customers who wan't their miniature fix RIGHT NOW instead of next week, or by renting tables / organizing events, selling consumables, etc.

The Inquisition has been informed of this thread. You have been warned.