Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Guys,

I have a group and tourny club I play with that are willing to accept Death Korps or Krieg codex rules, so I made an army around them:

05 x DKoK Company Command Platoon (1 Heroic Senior Officer/1 Plasma Gun/1 Power Weapon)
05 x DKoK Platoon Command Squad (1 Senior Officer/1 Autocannon)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad (1 Plasma Gun)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad (1 Plasma Gun)
01 x DKoK Earthshaker Cannon (1 Ordnance Round)
01 x DKoK Trojan Vechicle ( 1 Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter)
Total: 500

I have no clue how this will actually hold up, and could easily be annihilated depending on the game type. If anyone has any experience with a similar setup tell me so I know what to expect! In short, I was looking for opinions on the top list (though they have already been bought...so opinions on swap suggestions). However, I am looking forward to upgrading to a 1000 point army soon once I see how this one rolls. These were my two 1000 point lists:

05 x DKoK Company Command Platoon (1 Heroic Senior Officer/1 Plasma Gun/1 Power Weapon)
05 x DKoK Platoon Command Squad (1 Senior Officer/1 Autocannon)
05 x DKoK Command Squad - (1 Senior Officer/1 Autocannon)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad - (1 Plasma Gun)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad - (1 Plasma Gun)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad - (1 Plasma Gun)
05 x DKoK Engineer Squad - (1 Mole Launcher/1 Melta Bombs)
05 x DKoK Engineer Squad - (1 Mole Launcher/1 Melta Bombs)
01 x DKoK Hades Breaching Drill - (1 Power Cutter/1 Melta Cutter)
01 x DKoK Earthshaker Cannon - (1 Ordnance Round)
01 x DKoK Earthshaker Cannon - (1 Ordnance Round)
01 x DKoK Trojan Vechicle - (1 Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter))
01 x DKoK Trojan Vechicle - (1 Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter)
Total: 1000

or

05 x DKoK Company Command Platoon (1 Heroic Senior Officer/1 Plasma Gun/1 Power Weapon)
05 x DKoK Platoon Command Squad (1 Senior Officer/1 Autocannon/1 Power Weapon)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad (1 Plasma Gun/1 Power Weapon)
10 x DKoK Infantry Squad (1 Plasma Gun/1 Power Weapon)
01 x DKoK Earthshaker Cannon (1 Ordnance Round)
01 x DKoK Trojan Vechicle (1 Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter/1 Searchlight/1 Smoke Launcher)
01 x IG Shadowsword (1 Volcano Cannon/2 Lascannons/3 Twin-linked Heavy Bolters/1 Searchlight/1 Smoke Launcher)
Total: 1000

Any input would be great! Also, I have linked the GW Shadowsword PDF for you all:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440065_Imperial_Guard_Datasheet_-_Shadowsword.pdf

You know, it would be so much easyer to acctualy help you if yiu wrothe the list in an understandebal way.

Trondheim wrote:You know, it would be so much easyer to acctualy help you if yiu wrothe the list in an understandebal way.

If you're going to call someone out on list formatting, please at least have your own post properly spelled.

I think the strength of the DKoK list is the mass amount of infantry you can bring.

For your list to be legal, you need to have a platoon command squad for your infantry squads.

Trondheim wrote:You know, it would be so much easyer to acctualy help you if yiu wrothe the list in an understandebal way.

I would love to give it to you in an easier way, but could you show me an example? For me this makes the most sense to post it this way...so please enlighten me. Tried to make it nicer for you.

Blacksails wrote:

Trondheim wrote:You know, it would be so much easyer to acctualy help you if yiu wrothe the list in an understandebal way.

If you're going to call someone out on list formatting, please at least have your own post properly spelled.

I think the strength of the DKoK list is the mass amount of infantry you can bring.

For your list to be legal, you need to have a platoon command squad for your infantry squads.

The "Command Squad" is the Platoon Squad. They use different names, but its the same thing. You should see it in the first list:

05 x Death Korps of Krieg Command Squad (1 Senior Officer/1 Autocannon)

Also, the infantry of DKoK are actually a bit more expensive than regular ones to bring. :/ How do you like the list as is? What would you have changed if it wasn't already bought?

Do you use the last "DKoK siege Regiment" list ?
In my army list, platoon commanders are junior officer and coy commanders are senior officer (not "heroic").
The list seems right anyway, and efficient. What about melta ?
Your blobs are going to close range anyway, aren't they ?

Grenat wrote:Do you use the last "DKoK siege Regiment" list ?
In my army list, platoon commanders are junior officer and coy commanders are senior officer (not "heroic").
The list seems right anyway, and efficient. What about melta ?
Your blobs are going to close range anyway, aren't they ?

I am using Imperial Armor Volume 5, to my knowledge the only one that has all of the units I am using in it. I know Volume 6 has the Engineers and Hades Mine in it, I do not know what (if anything) is added in 7 as I haven't read that far. As far as I know that is the most recent one...please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have found my mistake. It looks like it is called differently:

Headquarters - Company Command Platoon
Infantry Platoon - Platoon Command Squad

So sorry about that, however the Heroic and Senior part are upgrades you can get. The heroic brings the cost up about 30-40% but gives him 5WS 4BS 3W 4I 3A 9Ld 5+Sv while the Senior one brings it up about 20-30% and gives him 5WS 4BS 3S 3T 2W 4I 3A 8Ld 5+Sv. I feel those are worth it.

Also, since my main heavy weapon is a Artillery piece I am going to be attempting to play defensively at first, blasting them so they have to come to me. I am playing Nid Melee, Ork Melee, Necron Ranged, and Chaos Mixed. The idea is that when they are within 12" for running + shooting I will jump the trenches and charge. Death Korp style!

Also, if Meltas would be worth it over Plasma tell me. I just figured Plasma offered me more versatility (and always hits).

I have one last question if someone could assist me with it. In the IG codex the Earthshaker cannon is only indirect (called barrage in main codec) fire..meaning that if towed it would not be able to move and shoot in the same turn. If we reference the Basilisk real quick we can see that it can do one of two things, direct fire or indirect fire. If you buy indirect fire you cannot move and shoot in the same turn but get the 240" firing range. If you use your regular direct fire you only get the 120" range but you can move and fire. In the DKoK they have the Earthshaker at 120" with no min, and you can upgrade (as with the Basilisk) to the indirect fire. Question here is knowing all of this, can I leave the Earthshaker as direct fire (since I am cleared to use DKoK codec) and have it move within the same turn? I have a trojan for pulling, and figured that I would be able to do this with the only negative effect being that the Trojan would lose any inches it had to move to hook up the Earthshaker (Since its heavy-bolter should be providing some form of cover fire). Any thoughts?

Never ever take the Trojan! I know it's free and all with the artillery but it is incredibly bad when kill points missions come up. They add little to no firepower and are incredibly weak. The only use they have is to act as cover for your other units as you really shouldn't be moving your heavy artillery after deployment anyway.

I'd avoid taking superheavies as part of a regular army, at 1000 points and plopping down a shadowsword, it's just not cool man. Hardly any armies would have a way of dealing with it at that points level and it's firepower will make for very unfun one sided games.

Also, I'm not sure if you understand how platoons work? A single infantry platoon consists of 2-5 infantry squads and 1 platoon commander with heavy weapon teams as optional choices. This counts for only ONE troops choice, meaning you will need a second platoon to fill out the 1HQ 2Troops requirement.

Also either field engineers in squads of 10 or forget them, in groups of 5 they die far too fast to do anything useful. The mole launcher is also really unimpressive, trust me I used to use them every game because I thought they were cool, but going for demo-charge engineers is a far better use for them.

Out of the the three lists, the second one seems the best (and is the only legal list for standard missions).

You should also read the Earthshaker Emplacement entry in IA5 (it's just after the bit about field artillery), it explains that the emplacement may not fire the turn it is towed or redeployed. Don't get this confused with a Basilisk, the fact that they share the gun doesn't change the fact that they're both very different species of unit!

The Basilisk is a vehicle, it may move and shoot directly with the earthshaker or sit still and fire the earthshaker indirectly. The Earthshaker emplacement is an artillery unit, it may not move but may shoot directly or indirectly. If you tow the earthshaker, it may not fire the turn you decide to attach it to the Trojan (It counts as embarking the Trojan, just as infantry may embark on a Chimera) and may not fire the turn it is disembarked. This means if you move the Earthshaker, it cannot fire for three whole turns!

Also, get a Medusa Emplacement, it's only 10 points more but is Strength 10 Ap2 with a massive 120" range and indirect fire. Talk about imbalanced or what.

Instead of taking the plasma guns in the standard infantry squads, I'd give them meltaguns or grenade launchers so they can shoot and assault. If you have the modelling skills, give them pistols and ccw for that extra kick in combat, since you plan on letting them come to you, the drop in range is not a problem. Give the command squads the plasma guns if you've already assembled the models.

Also, commissars are a worthy investment. Blob the squads and give the watchmasters and commissars power swords and watch your guardsmen eat terminators for breakfast.

One more thing, don't bother with combat with your command squads unless if you are running Death Rider command squads, they absolutely stink in combat being only T3 and 5 models. Even a squad of 5 Ork Boyz will crush them in combat, so leave off all power weapons and fancy melee gear since you really don't want them to be in combat.

EDIT:// Reread your question, it looks like you're using a mix of the old IA5 and the new Siege Regiment list, some of the upgrades you talk about simply do not exist anymore, click on this link for the latest version http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf . To clarify, you cannot buy indirect fire for basilisks any more, they simply come with it automatically. This means that the Basilisk may fire directly (no minimum range) or indirectly (minimum range 36") both modes have a maximum range of 240". You may need to get the 5th edition of the IG codex if you don't have it already as some Krieg weapon profiles are found in the latest IG codex only.

The Earthshaker Emplacement never came with the option to purchase indirect fire, it came with it automatically and the range was always 240". You may choose to fire the cannon directly or indirectly as you please (if your target is more than 36" away always indirect fire since you pin and hit side armour as a bonus instead of firing directly).

Snarky wrote:Never ever take the Trojan! I know it's free and all with the artillery but it is incredibly bad when kill points missions come up. They add little to no firepower and are incredibly weak. The only use they have is to act as cover for your other units as you really shouldn't be moving your heavy artillery after deployment anyway.

I'd avoid taking superheavies as part of a regular army, at 1000 points and plopping down a shadowsword, it's just not cool man. Hardly any armies would have a way of dealing with it at that points level and it's firepower will make for very unfun one sided games.

Also, I'm not sure if you understand how platoons work? A single infantry platoon consists of 2-5 infantry squads and 1 platoon commander with heavy weapon teams as optional choices. This counts for only ONE troops choice, meaning you will need a second platoon to fill out the 1HQ 2Troops requirement.

Also either field engineers in squads of 10 or forget them, in groups of 5 they die far too fast to do anything useful. The mole launcher is also really unimpressive, trust me I used to use them every game because I thought they were cool, but going for demo-charge engineers is a far better use for them.

Out of the the three lists, the second one seems the best (and is the only legal list for standard missions).

You should also read the Earthshaker Emplacement entry in IA5 (it's just after the bit about field artillery), it explains that the emplacement may not fire the turn it is towed or redeployed. Don't get this confused with a Basilisk, the fact that they share the gun doesn't change the fact that they're both very different species of unit!

The Basilisk is a vehicle, it may move and shoot directly with the earthshaker or sit still and fire the earthshaker indirectly. The Earthshaker emplacement is an artillery unit, it may not move but may shoot directly or indirectly. If you tow the earthshaker, it may not fire the turn you decide to attach it to the Trojan (It counts as embarking the Trojan, just as infantry may embark on a Chimera) and may not fire the turn it is disembarked. This means if you move the Earthshaker, it cannot fire for three whole turns!

Also, get a Medusa Emplacement, it's only 10 points more but is Strength 10 Ap2 with a massive 120" range and indirect fire. Talk about imbalanced or what.

Instead of taking the plasma guns in the standard infantry squads, I'd give them meltaguns or grenade launchers so they can shoot and assault. If you have the modelling skills, give them pistols and ccw for that extra kick in combat, since you plan on letting them come to you, the drop in range is not a problem. Give the command squads the plasma guns if you've already assembled the models.

Also, commissars are a worthy investment. Blob the squads and give the watchmasters and commissars power swords and watch your guardsmen eat terminators for breakfast.

One more thing, don't bother with combat with your command squads unless if you are running Death Rider command squads, they absolutely stink in combat being only T3 and 5 models. Even a squad of 5 Ork Boyz will crush them in combat, so leave off all power weapons and fancy melee gear since you really don't want them to be in combat.

EDIT:// Reread your question, it looks like you're using a mix of the old IA5 and the new Siege Regiment list, some of the upgrades you talk about simply do not exist anymore, click on this link for the latest version http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf . To clarify, you cannot buy indirect fire for basilisks any more, they simply come with it automatically. This means that the Basilisk may fire directly (no minimum range) or indirectly (minimum range 36") both modes have a maximum range of 240". You may need to get the 5th edition of the IG codex if you don't have it already as some Krieg weapon profiles are found in the latest IG codex only.

The Earthshaker Emplacement never came with the option to purchase indirect fire, it came with it automatically and the range was always 240". You may choose to fire the cannon directly or indirectly as you please (if your target is more than 36" away always indirect fire since you pin and hit side armour as a bonus instead of firing directly).

I have not seen this before, so I will have to review it. I was using straight IA rules, did not know this had existed. So this is totally tournament legal?

Depends on the tournament. Some allow FW, others do not. It doesnt matter whether or not it can be downloaded from FW's site but the site list is updated to 5th edition standards.

Plus you can have powerblobs with laspistols and powerfists!

What do you guys think of this?

DKoK Command Company Squad - (1 Melta Gun/1 Power Weapon)
DKoK Platoon Command Squad - (1 Melta Gun/1 Melta Bombs)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (1 Melta)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (1 Melta)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (1 Melta)
DKoK Heavy Weapons Squad - 80 (3 Autocannons)
DKoK Earthshaker Cannon - 75 (1 Ordnance Round 5")
DKoK Trojan - 0 (1 Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter)

That's 500 points. I understand you said not to bring the Trojan, but I will judge that myself on the battlefield. My only question would be this...do I realistically need another Platoon Command Squad to make this work?

Edit: I know its not legal now, working on it....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, this is my list now:

HQ:
DKoK Command Company Squad - (1 Autocannon)

Platoon 1:
DKoK Platoon Command Squad - (1 Power Weapon/1 Melta Bombs)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (-)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (-)

Platoon 2:
DKoK Platoon Command Squad - (1 Power Weapon)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (-)
DKoK Infantry Squad - (-)

Heavy Support:
DKoK Earthshaker Cannon - (1 Ordnance Round 5")
DKoK Trojan - (1 Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter)
Total: 490

Any suggestions minus not taking Trojan? I also need a suggestion for the last 10 points. Was thinking Melta on other Platoon and spending the extra 5 somewhere else....

I have looked through all of IA5 multiple times, and am unable to find anything about the Earthshaker not being able to move as the Basilisk does. Tell me what page it is on if it exists. Likewise, in the updated rulebook that you linked it says nothing about that...since you go off that for 40k games why wouldn't it follow the Basilisks rule? I mean, the Trojan has to hook up, and if moved away from the cannon would just have to spend points getting back before hooking up. Indirect fire is suppose to make you not move because it is calculating sites, direct fire is stationary sites. This should remain true for the Earthshaker cannon should it not, since its the same theory and the exact same gun.

I found the section you were talking about. Titled Earthshaker and Medusa its on page 116 - 119:

PG 116: (Summary)
1st Paragraph - These are big guns deployed, nothing game relevant.
2nd Paragraph - Specs and firing heavy rounds, nothing game relevant.
3rd Paragraph - Can use different shells, nothing game relevant as you actually can't. (As far as everything I have seen says)
4th Paragraph - About Medusa, nothing about towing or game relevant.
5th Paragraph - Requires Trojan and not Centaur. No restrictions about shooting direct and moving.
6th Paragraph - Bombardments also support siege groups, nothing game relevant.

PG 117: (Summary)
1 Picture of an Earthshaker.
1 Technical Specifications Chart, nothing game relevant.

PG 118 (Summary)
1 Picture of an Medusa.
1 Technical Specifications Chart, nothing game relevant.

PG 119: (Summary)
Earthshaker Cannon Stats:
Points cost - F/S/R/BS
Type: Not here.
Weapons: Not here.
Options: Talks about Trojan costing points, nothing about towing with direct fire. And this point cost has even changed. Also talks about extra crew.
Special Rules: Upgraded with indirect fire, later says this would cost points. Talks about hit on Gun, and Immobile unless towed, but no restrictions still.

Medusa Siege Gun Stats:
Points cost - F/S/R/BS
Type: Not here.
Weapons: Not here.
Options: Talks about Trojan costing points, nothing about towing with direct fire. And this point cost has even changed. Also talks about extra crew.
Special Rules: Upgraded with indirect fire, later says this would cost points. Talks about hit on Gun, and Immobile unless towed, but no restrictions still.

I was also unable to find any Medusa Emplacement within the IA5 or Krieg Update. So, care you clarify these things as I have looked into it thoroughly and found nothing. Everything I find online says its an interpreted rule, that is semi-open for interpretation since it is not explicitly stated. Initial inclination...find something in main codex similar and see how it works. I.E. Basilisk.

dabupp wrote:I have looked through all of IA5 multiple times, and am unable to find anything about the Earthshaker not being able to move as the Basilisk does. Tell me what page it is on if it exists. Likewise, in the updated rulebook that you linked it says nothing about that...since you go off that for 40k games why wouldn't it follow the Basilisks rule? I mean, the Trojan has to hook up, and if moved away from the cannon would just have to spend points getting back before hooking up. Indirect fire is suppose to make you not move because it is calculating sites, direct fire is stationary sites. This should remain true for the Earthshaker cannon should it not, since its the same theory and the exact same gun.

Are you being serious? I have differentiated the two units in my previous post. The fact that they both share the same weapon does NOT MAKE THEM THE SAME UNIT.

A BASILISK is a VEHICLE. It follows the VEHICLE rules in the rulebook. The EARTHSHAKER EMPLACEMENT is an ARTILLERY unit. It follows the ARTILLERY ruleset from the rulebook. Your analogy is that if a Space Marine has a bolter, then any other unit that has a bolter is a Space Marine and should be treated like one.

As I said before, read IA1, the entry for the Trojan even tells you to read IA1 in IA5. I'll do one better, here's the rules for it http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf. Page 146, under Trojan and towing vehicle. You cannot fire while loading and dismounting the gun.

Snarky wrote:

dabupp wrote:I have looked through all of IA5 multiple times, and am unable to find anything about the Earthshaker not being able to move as the Basilisk does. Tell me what page it is on if it exists. Likewise, in the updated rulebook that you linked it says nothing about that...since you go off that for 40k games why wouldn't it follow the Basilisks rule? I mean, the Trojan has to hook up, and if moved away from the cannon would just have to spend points getting back before hooking up. Indirect fire is suppose to make you not move because it is calculating sites, direct fire is stationary sites. This should remain true for the Earthshaker cannon should it not, since its the same theory and the exact same gun.

Are you being serious? I have differentiated the two units in my previous post. The fact that they both share the same weapon does NOT MAKE THEM THE SAME UNIT.

A BASILISK is a VEHICLE. It follows the VEHICLE rules in the rulebook. The EARTHSHAKER EMPLACEMENT is an ARTILLERY unit. It follows the ARTILLERY ruleset from the rulebook. Your analogy is that if a Space Marine has a bolter, then any other unit that has a bolter is a Space Marine and should be treated like one.

As I said before, read IA1, the entry for the Trojan even tells you to read IA1 in IA5. I'll do one better, here's the rules for it http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf. Page 146, under Trojan and towing vehicle. You cannot fire while loading and dismounting the gun.

Yes, I was being serious. I literally followed what you said exactly and was unable to find it. Thank you for the clarification, but not may fault you told me the wrong place before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When did this come out?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf

And what year for this?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reason being that rules and some costs are different, so I need to know which one takes presidency.

Well, do you actually have an army based off of this?

Ogryn wrote:Well, do you actually have an army based off of this?

I did, but I have since switched to Eldar.

dabupp wrote:

Ogryn wrote:Well, do you actually have an army based off of this?

I did, but I have since switched to Eldar.

So you don't play the DKoK anymore? If so why?

Gar'Ang wrote:

dabupp wrote:

Ogryn wrote:Well, do you actually have an army based off of this?

I did, but I have since switched to Eldar.

So you don't play the DKoK anymore? If so why?

I don't anymore that is correct. I started looking at other armies and what it came down to was:

500 Point DKoK Army: $600 USD
500 Point Eldar Army: $140 USD

That.

okay. I play eldar myself, i have 4warlocks, 1farseer, 1guardian box and one battleforce. I intend to get one more battleforce and one more warlock by christmas. That will give me a pretty solid 1250points list. I have posted it here on dakka http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402060.page